 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi, our little family of 3 is going skiing in st Johann over New Year, we can’t wait and are obsessively checking snow reports.  I have been reading on here and doing research and have a few questions, based on our very varied abilities:
- This will be my 6th time skiing but I am still on blues and seem to be just lacking talent (and struck by The Fear!), I would like to just ski and enjoy myself rather than get stressed on steep reds (though I’m open to trying the odd easier one).
- My 15 year old son LOVES skiing and this will be his third trip, he is not that sporty but turning into a proper snowhead which is so lovely to see! He still needs instruction but was doing the odd red with my husband last year.
- My husband is an expert skier and whilst he is lovely and patient and really enjoys helping the teenager improve by taking him down increasingly challenging slopes and watching him thrive, I want to make sure he gets to let his hair down too on some very challenging blacks!
Not easy, I guess, especially in St Johann. I see group lessons are all from 10-3pm including lunch which is not really how we want to spend our hols so I thought I’d buy my son one or two private lessons early on to move him on/increase his confidence, which would then allow us to explore the area. I would be happy to ‘sit out’ the odd run! I have seen that it is easy to get to Fieberbrunn and also Kitzbuehl and that this is included in our lift passes provided we are in our gear, but having never been to this region I wonder if there are any watch outs or tips/advice for our group in such a strange configuration? I’d be super grateful!
Didi
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@DidiSkis, which st Johann? There are 2
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@holidayloverxx, I was thinking that but given the proximity to Kitzbühel and Fieberbrunn I expect it's St Johann in Tirol. I know Kitzbühel well but not St Johann or Fieberbrunn.
The easiest Kitzbühel terrain is up on the Kitzbüheler Horn, or there's a few blues around Penglestein. The most challenging black is 38 on the Steinbergkogel side. There are also a couple of nice blues over at Resterhöhe BUT the route back involves a tricky red and a T-bar.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Hi! Sorry, it’s St Johann in Tirol.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Hi @Didiskis, I don't know St Johann so can't help there, but did a day in Kitzbuhel earlier this year (from Westerndorf). As a mainly blue and easy red run skier, there was plenty up top to go at, and also some really lovely blue/red cruises down towards Kirchberg (25a red then 25 blue) and especially blues 30/31 towards Pengelstein. Plus some scary looking blacks for your husband... I chickened out of doing the Streif run, but when the race isn't on it's apparently very doable (there's an easy out round he steepest part), and you could download from the top and leave your husband and son to it? Really liked Kitzbuhel.
Also, from a person who never thought they'd get comfy with reds - it might be worth booking yourself a couple of private lessons as well? A good instructor will help so much, especially with the Fear (I know it well...), I always find following an instructor I can do much more than I'd thought, and then you get used to it. Doesn't mean you have to go on anything you don't want to, just that you'll be able to get yourself out of any tight spots if you need to. 
Edited to add - Was in Saalbach Hinterglemm last year also - didn't got to Fieberbrunn as thought it looked too hard to get there (  ) but did go to Leogang down the road - lovely long blues there, properly cruisey. Am told that Fieberbrunn is intermediate heaven though...
Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Mon 17-12-18 11:01; edited 1 time in total
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Assuming St J im T then there is a lovely black ?womens world cup course down to Oberndorf - not too hard especially in good snow - I would rate it more a red than a black personally and a very ncie bar restaurant at the bottom that is a real sun trap. Of course as QPP says if you get the wider pass then you can go to Kitzbuhel as well where there are peltny of lovely long raking blues and the train is covered between St J and Kitz between certain hours in your lift pass price - best to get off at Hahnenkamm stop and not Kitzbuhel itself as that takes you straight to the gondola.
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@DidiSkis, I'm not sure what you mean by 'strange configuration'. In Austria the ski areas tend to be clustered quite close together which makes it easy to travel to a different ski area each day if you wish, either using the free ski busses or easier still if you have a car.
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Definitely worthwhile having a trip over to Kitzbuhel. There's extensive skiing there, and afterwards it's worthwhile having a look at the pedestrianised town centre with the horse drawn sleighs, hot chestnut sellers and if you like cakes then a visit to Praxmair's Konditorei for Kaffee und Kuchen is highly recommended!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| queenie pretty please wrote: |
| @DidiSkis, I'm not sure what you mean by 'strange configuration'. |
I think she means her group is a strange configuration (it's not really though)
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@holidayloverxx, reading it again, yes you're probably right. It didn't occur to me as I think it's highly likely that a group has mixed abilities.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Both Kitzbühel and Fieberbrunn offer more varied terrain than St Johann (though it is a good number of years since I skied in St Johann so things might have changed). Kitzbühel probably offers the best option for you. In the area immediately above the town there are all sorts of runs including some genuinely steep blacks, nice ski routes (though these end up out of town) plus, of course, blues and reds. If you dont fancy the runs back to town (there is a blue), take the Hahenkamm gondola down which ends up at the train station for the train back to St Johann. The lifts at Fieberbrunn are a bit of a way out of the village (and the train station), there are buses but a car helps. There are a number of lifts and runs through the trees with a mixture of blues and reds. The more interesting skiing is part of the link into Saalbach Hinterglemm but it is somewhat steeper, maybe ideal for your husband and son but maybe not for you (though the snow is usually good and thus the runs are often easier to ski than some of the lower blue "easy" runs).
If you want to visit one or both of Kitzbühel or Fieberbrunn make sure you buy the correct ski pass, you will need a Super Ski card which covers all the local areas. The train & scheduled buses within the Tirol are covered by the pass as long as you have ski kit with you plus there are the various ski buses.
Its a long time since I had anything to do with ski school but from memory Austrian ski schools only tend to run private lessons outside of normal ski school time, you might want to check. You might find it easier to get private lessons in Kitzbühel.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I'm very fond of St. Johann, having learnt to ski there 35 years ago. It's never going to make a "Great Ski Resorts of the Alps" list but I've been back a few times and always like it.
St. Johann itself firstly - you will have no issues on any of the blues (it is a gently graded resort) except rather irritatingly the slope directly above the village - one to be taken slowly through the crowds. Even the long black is very achievable for a nervous blue run skier - it could well be graded blue in another resort, but presumably the resort felt it needed a black, and the run is so long it got the nod. My favourite skiing has always been on the Eichenhof side - this used to be drags only, it may now be busier as there's a cable car. The steepest runs in the resort for your husband are probably the 4a/4b reds. A good skier will ski out St. Johann in a day though, so would definitely recommend branching out.
I'll let others comment on Kitzbuhel but must *massively* recommend Fieberbrunn. Prior to the link to Saalbach, it was my favourite "resort per km" in Austria - it is small but every slope is interesting with varied terrain and many lines to take, the sort of pistes where you immediately want to ski them again. Brilliant day to be had just in the local resort. The last time I went to St.Johann, our plan was 2 days St.J, 1 day Fieberbrunn and 1 day Kitzbuhel - we ended up doing 1 day St.J and 3 days Fieberbrunn - couldn't get enough! You can all get along there on the ski bus from St. Johann, and the blues and the lowest red are great runs and fully nervous-skier-safe. Now of course there is the link to Saalbach, and so potential for a really epic day.
Do check the latest info on the Ski passes. A few years ago you could ski Fieberbrunn on the same schneewinkel pass you got for St. Johann at no extra cost, but I expect they've changed that with the Fieberbrunn-->Saalbach link. Kitzbuhel will need a wider pass - Salzburger super ski, or kitzbuhler alpen or whatever they're calling it now.
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| munich_irish wrote: |
Its a long time since I had anything to do with ski school but from memory Austrian ski schools only tend to run private lessons outside of normal ski school time, you might want to check. You might find it easier to get private lessons in Kitzbühel. |
Certainly you can have have private lessons in Flachau any time you want
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You know it makes sense.
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| queenie pretty please wrote: |
@holidayloverxx, I was thinking that but given the proximity to Kitzbühel and Fieberbrunn I expect it's St Johann in Tirol. I know Kitzbühel well but not St Johann or Fieberbrunn.
The easiest Kitzbühel terrain is up on the Kitzbüheler Horn, or there's a few blues around Penglestein. The most challenging black is 38 on the Steinbergkogel side. There are also a couple of nice blues over at Resterhöhe BUT the route back involves a tricky red and a T-bar. |
Thanks Queenie. I am going to add that to my wishlist for our Kitz trip. I’ll give the tricky red a miss I think....! Thanks for the heads up!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| ElzP wrote: |
Hi @Didiskis, I don't know St Johann so can't help there, but did a day in Kitzbuhel earlier this year (from Westerndorf). As a mainly blue and easy red run skier, there was plenty up top to go at, and also some really lovely blue/red cruises down towards Kirchberg (25a red then 25 blue) and especially blues 30/31 towards Pengelstein. Plus some scary looking blacks for your husband... I chickened out of doing the Streif run, but when the race isn't on it's apparently very doable (there's an easy out round he steepest part), and you could download from the top and leave your husband and son to it? Really liked Kitzbuhel.
Also, from a person who never thought they'd get comfy with reds - it might be worth booking yourself a couple of private lessons as well? A good instructor will help so much, especially with the Fear (I know it well...), I always find following an instructor I can do much more than I'd thought, and then you get used to it. Doesn't mean you have to go on anything you don't want to, just that you'll be able to get yourself out of any tight spots if you need to.
Edited to add - Was in Saalbach Hinterglemm last year also - didn't got to Fieberbrunn as thought it looked too hard to get there ( ) but did go to Leogang down the road - lovely long blues there, properly cruisey. Am told that Fieberbrunn is intermediate heaven though... |
Hi, wow thanks for all the tips and advice, super helpful. I think the top of Kitz sounds like the place to be and I am definitely not too proud to go down a mountain by lift/gondola!
I also consider every year whether to have more tuition. I have had quite a lot  and in one group lesson for ‘beginners’ I just felt out of my depth and anxious! I completed it because I paid for it (!) but I decided holidays are meant to be fun/active/relaxing, not stressful! That said, last year I met a private instructor in the pub and told him my story and had 2 hours private lesson with him which helped me hugely and helped me change some bad habits eg looking at my skis instead of into the valley and using too much edge (which turns out makes you go faster instead of braking!). It was kn the penultimate day so I am hoping to have some benefit from it this time round (it’s why I am hoping I might try an easy red).
Thanks again for the advice!
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Poster: A snowHead
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| countryman wrote: |
| Assuming St J im T then there is a lovely black ?womens world cup course down to Oberndorf - not too hard especially in good snow - I would rate it more a red than a black personally and a very ncie bar restaurant at the bottom that is a real sun trap. Of course as QPP says if you get the wider pass then you can go to Kitzbuhel as well where there are peltny of lovely long raking blues and the train is covered between St J and Kitz between certain hours in your lift pass price - best to get off at Hahnenkamm stop and not Kitzbuhel itself as that takes you straight to the gondola. |
Thanks for this! I think my husband was talking about that run, sounds good. I am minded to get the wider pass (just need to work out the exact name and the price difference) because that will give us more variety. I think I would be quite happy pootling along in St Johann i.T but as for the others!
So am I right in thinking that you’re saying the Hahnenkamm stop is best for the Kitz main gondola?
Either way, thanks again!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| queenie pretty please wrote: |
| @DidiSkis, I'm not sure what you mean by 'strange configuration'. In Austria the ski areas tend to be clustered quite close together which makes it easy to travel to a different ski area each day if you wish, either using the free ski busses or easier still if you have a car. |
Yeah I meant we are a strange configuration. But maybe not going by what other people say!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| DidiSkis wrote: |
| countryman wrote: |
| Assuming St J im T then there is a lovely black ?womens world cup course down to Oberndorf - not too hard especially in good snow - I would rate it more a red than a black personally and a very ncie bar restaurant at the bottom that is a real sun trap. Of course as QPP says if you get the wider pass then you can go to Kitzbuhel as well where there are peltny of lovely long raking blues and the train is covered between St J and Kitz between certain hours in your lift pass price - best to get off at Hahnenkamm stop and not Kitzbuhel itself as that takes you straight to the gondola. |
Thanks for this! I think my husband was talking about that run, sounds good. I am minded to get the wider pass (just need to work out the exact name and the price difference) because that will give us more variety. I think I would be quite happy pootling along in St Johann i.T but as for the others!
So am I right in thinking that you’re saying the Hahnenkamm stop is best for the Kitz main gondola?
Either way, thanks again! |
It’s the Salzburger superski pass
[/url]
[url=]https://www.superskicard.com/en
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Alastair Pink wrote: |
| Definitely worthwhile having a trip over to Kitzbuhel. There's extensive skiing there, and afterwards it's worthwhile having a look at the pedestrianised town centre with the horse drawn sleighs, hot chestnut sellers and if you like cakes then a visit to Praxmair's Konditorei for Kaffee und Kuchen is highly recommended! |
Oooh Kaffee und Kuchen! Now we’re talking! Thanks Alistair!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| munich_irish wrote: |
Both Kitzbühel and Fieberbrunn offer more varied terrain than St Johann (though it is a good number of years since I skied in St Johann so things might have changed). Kitzbühel probably offers the best option for you. In the area immediately above the town there are all sorts of runs including some genuinely steep blacks, nice ski routes (though these end up out of town) plus, of course, blues and reds. If you dont fancy the runs back to town (there is a blue), take the Hahenkamm gondola down which ends up at the train station for the train back to St Johann. The lifts at Fieberbrunn are a bit of a way out of the village (and the train station), there are buses but a car helps. There are a number of lifts and runs through the trees with a mixture of blues and reds. The more interesting skiing is part of the link into Saalbach Hinterglemm but it is somewhat steeper, maybe ideal for your husband and son but maybe not for you (though the snow is usually good and thus the runs are often easier to ski than some of the lower blue "easy" runs).
If you want to visit one or both of Kitzbühel or Fieberbrunn make sure you buy the correct ski pass, you will need a Super Ski card which covers all the local areas. The train & scheduled buses within the Tirol are covered by the pass as long as you have ski kit with you plus there are the various ski buses.
Its a long time since I had anything to do with ski school but from memory Austrian ski schools only tend to run private lessons outside of normal ski school time, you might want to check. You might find it easier to get private lessons in Kitzbühel. |
So much info in here, thank you so much! It sounds like we need the ‘Super Ski Card’, will have a reccy online. We won’t have a car so we’ll probably need to travel by bus. The next reply seems to rave a out the bus connection from st Johann to Fieberbrunn so maybe that has changed? I will try to establish that, I don’t fancy shlepping a long way with skis on my shoulder!!!
I have found that all 3 ski schools in St Johann offer private lessons and, as you alluded, outside of the 10-3 group times which really suits us. We’d like to be together mostly so this way we can set my son up for some early lessons then go exploring. Thanks again!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| JimiHendrix wrote: |
I'm very fond of St. Johann, having learnt to ski there 35 years ago. It's never going to make a "Great Ski Resorts of the Alps" list but I've been back a few times and always like it.
St. Johann itself firstly - you will have no issues on any of the blues (it is a gently graded resort) except rather irritatingly the slope directly above the village - one to be taken slowly through the crowds. Even the long black is very achievable for a nervous blue run skier - it could well be graded blue in another resort, but presumably the resort felt it needed a black, and the run is so long it got the nod. My favourite skiing has always been on the Eichenhof side - this used to be drags only, it may now be busier as there's a cable car. The steepest runs in the resort for your husband are probably the 4a/4b reds. A good skier will ski out St. Johann in a day though, so would definitely recommend branching out.
I'll let others comment on Kitzbuhel but must *massively* recommend Fieberbrunn. Prior to the link to Saalbach, it was my favourite "resort per km" in Austria - it is small but every slope is interesting with varied terrain and many lines to take, the sort of pistes where you immediately want to ski them again. Brilliant day to be had just in the local resort. The last time I went to St.Johann, our plan was 2 days St.J, 1 day Fieberbrunn and 1 day Kitzbuhel - we ended up doing 1 day St.J and 3 days Fieberbrunn - couldn't get enough! You can all get along there on the ski bus from St. Johann, and the blues and the lowest red are great runs and fully nervous-skier-safe. Now of course there is the link to Saalbach, and so potential for a really epic day.
Do check the latest info on the Ski passes. A few years ago you could ski Fieberbrunn on the same schneewinkel pass you got for St. Johann at no extra cost, but I expect they've changed that with the Fieberbrunn-->Saalbach link. Kitzbuhel will need a wider pass - Salzburger super ski, or kitzbuhler alpen or whatever they're calling it now. |
Tha ks so much! So much detailed info on St Johann! Brilliant and very reassuring, especially the gently graded comment (I find one blue is not like another blue....!) I am going to do my research on ski passes, it sounds like we need the Super Ski pass but will find out. Saalbach might be one step too far for this trip but who knows?! If it’s included we may well try it.
Fieberbrunn sounds as good as I’d hoped! I think we may be spending a lot of time there too...! Thanks again Mr Hendrix!
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Hi @didiskis - I’ve not been to st Johann yet but we’re going for our first family ski trip (I ski, husband doesn’t, 6 year old son’s first time) in February so please come back and post any tips when you’ve been!
Can I also pose a quick question? I’ve looked at bus timetables and seems to be one or two at the beginning of the day and at the end, but nothing in between. Does the train to kitz run more regularly, and can I buy a day pass? This holiday is more trying to give my son the ski bug so we can go again so I need to usually be nearby to get him from ski school but would like to explore further a couple of days!
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Hi! I will go out on my travels and return with a report!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Thank you! 
Enjoy!
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@Lozza1uk, There are regular trains between St Johann & Kitzbühel, I would guess hourly. If you are going for a day trip to Kitzbühel the best option is likely to be the Super Ski card as that covers the train too, though not sure how much extra the cost would be for a week ie over and above the St Johann only card.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| t4tomo wrote: |
| DidiSkis wrote: |
| countryman wrote: |
| Assuming St J im T then there is a lovely black ?womens world cup course down to Oberndorf - not too hard especially in good snow - I would rate it more a red than a black personally and a very ncie bar restaurant at the bottom that is a real sun trap. Of course as QPP says if you get the wider pass then you can go to Kitzbuhel as well where there are peltny of lovely long raking blues and the train is covered between St J and Kitz between certain hours in your lift pass price - best to get off at Hahnenkamm stop and not Kitzbuhel itself as that takes you straight to the gondola. |
Thanks for this! I think my husband was talking about that run, sounds good. I am minded to get the wider pass (just need to work out the exact name and the price difference) because that will give us more variety. I think I would be quite happy pootling along in St Johann i.T but as for the others!
So am I right in thinking that you’re saying the Hahnenkamm stop is best for the Kitz main gondola?
Either way, thanks again! |
It’s the Salzburger superski pass
[/url]
[url=]https://www.superskicard.com/en |
Yes the Hahnenkamm stop for the Hahnenkamm gondola, just a short walk over the railway line.
I was in St Johann last year and can confirm that there is no longer a free ski bus service between St Johann and Fieberbrunn, now that Fieberbrunn has joined with Saalbach. Not even the super ski pass covers transport between these two anymore. There is a payable postbus though.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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If you have a St Johann Guest Card (given to anyone staying in paid accommodation in the village) buses and trains are covered to both Kitzbühel and Fieberbrunn see https://www.kitzbueheler-alpen.com/en/st-johann/service/free-bus-with-the-guest-card.html. However I dont believe the post buses stop at the lifts, the main road is 500m maybe more from the car park at the bottom of the lifts. I guess there must be ski buses from the village to the lifts but getting from St Johann to Fieberbrunn to ski without a car seems like a lot of faff whereas it is easy to get to Kitzbühel.
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We are regular visitors to St Johann. You’ll find the reds from the top are all fine. My OH generally sticks to blues, but is happy to do any of these. Red 3 I think is the easiest of them.
One of the highlights are the mountain restaurants. My recommendations are the Grand Schupf on Red 4 and the Angerer Alm just above the mid station on Red 1. I’d get there for a slightly early lunch as both can get busy.
The Schneewinkel pass is no more. There is the 3 lander freizeitarena pass that covers St J, Lofer and the Steinplatte, though for an extra £40 each you may as well get the Superski Regional pass.
The Ski Welt is also close by. Which would be ideal for you. Endless blue runs from the Ellmau gondola.
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You know it makes sense.
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Can a non skier get to any of the restaurants you recommend Drammeister?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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The Grand Schupf is at the top of the Eichenhof gondola, but you’d have to get there.
The one at the top station of the main gondola is also good and easy to access.
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FAQ
