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Insurance help

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
I am getting very confused with what insurance I need, so any help/advice is greatly appreciated.

I have carre neige with my season pass. From what i can see online this covers me for getting down the hill and all medical expenses that are not covered by the ehic. Also covers me for lost season pass and a little repatriation.

However all sites seem to state that i should also get travel insurance. But i can't really see what this is insuring against. I have done a couple of quotes which have all come out at £400+ for me and my girlfriend for the whole season

Do i really need this? I am not bothered about insuring my skis or the accomodation cost/travel out there. If i were to break a leg i would just stay in the accomodation and recover there, and we are driving so its like a £40 ferry.

Is £400 a complete rip off or is this what you would expect it to cost a couple both under 30?

Would i be making a massive mistake not getting insurance with winter sports cover?

What have other seasonnaires, not on employers insurance done?

Thanks
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
I'm no expert on what EHIC and carre neige cover so can't help there, but can say £400 does seem a bit pricey. Last year I paid £82 for a years snow stuff cover with MIP.
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i just use my AAC cover which includes all mountain activities under 6000m and a fair amount of medical cover. I never bother with travel insurance as I stay out for long periods anyhow and over many years have saved enough to easily cover items like stolen or lost skis. Most cover will not pay full price for older stuff anyhow.

£400 sounds like a total rip off, I've found basic medical cover for approx £20 and the AAC UK membership is under £50.
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@Gear_Junkie, Not surprised that you're getting expensive quotes for a whole season. FWIW my wife and I spend whole seasons in the Alps and rely on the EHIC scheme, coupled with the basic mountain rescue, emergency medical care, and third party liability cover provided by the Austrian Alpine Club (included in membership, which costs us each £39.50). It provides worldwide cover. This does however involve self-insuring (or not bothering) about certain uninsured risks, like cancellaton/curtailment of flights and loss of possessions/equipment. (Note also that the AAC covers you for emergency medical costs, transportation between hospitals, and repatriation for only the first 8 weeks of any trip).
If you're not planning on returning home at any point (i.e. if the 8 weeks is not going to start anew), and you need continuous cover throughout the season, you can get a 4 month, single trip policy, (again through the AAC) with Knox - this operates as an add-on the Woldwide basic cover. You can get cover for the whole of Europe for 4 months for EUR 180. The only pre-conditions are that you have to be a member of the AAC (but that is only £51.25 p.a. for a 'full adult', or £39.50 for a spouse of a full adult or a senior), and that you have to have your permanent residence in Europe (which of course includes the UK - even if you're a Brexiteer).
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@Scarpa, Happy Birthday! What's this "basic medical cover" for £20?
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Cheers tatman, it was when I had to show that I was insured for my temporary residency permit . I just got a cheap policy from the firm below, although it does limit trips to a month. It's actually £33 now.

Explorer Travel Insurance specialises in offering great value Single Trip , Annual Multi Trip, Winter Sports , Cruise and Backpacker travel insurance.
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
carre niege & relying on the EHIC card is not enough

£400 is a rip off.
We get annual worldwide included with our managed bank account, but previously paying between £90-£150 depending on if we had a USA trip planned or not (cheaper if not!)

Make sure the kind of skiing your doing is covered.
Offpiste/off marked slopes for example is probably not covered in the normal travel insurance, neither is dune buggying, tobogganing, ski sidos, etc.

Apart from mountain, insurance will also cover you against curtailment if your holiday is cut short for any reason, theft, loss of baggage, etc.

Since you say you are driving & if you break a leg.. how would you then get home, if you cant drive?

The only thing you need to check is the maximum days allowed in any single trip - since you say its a season pass. Some may only cover for 30days, etc.
If your going to be doing 180 days, then that is high risk for an insurance company - hence the £400 premium.
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After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
@Mr.Egg, did you read the original post? Although your point re Carre Neige is very correct.

@Gear_Junkie, talk to a local agent. While they will be trying to maximise your cover... they’ll have a reasonable handle on what you need.

£400 is nuts.
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@under a new name,

yes I did, he's asked for cover for a whole season with his whole season pass.
No mention they are staying for the whole season & if they are, then £200 each may not be that bad with extra associated risks

stop being a pedantic lady's front bottom.
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Gear_Junkie wrote:
.....
What have other seasonnaires, not on employers insurance done?

Thanks


The implications is they are out there living and probably working for the season.
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@Gear_Junkie, when I did my first season I had the EHIC and Carre Neige but added additional insurance to cover major incidents such as air ambulance repatriation, etc. I was certainly double insured for most stuff, but that was me playing safe! £200 per person doesn't sound too bad for a season to me.

One thing to bear in mind is whether you intend to return to the UK at any time during the season. Most season insurance is for one trip only and expires automatically if you do this.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Here is my shortlist as I approach the point of buying some new insurance for extended periods in the mountains in the new season.

As @tatmanstours said above, the Austrian Alpine Club seems to provide year-round cover of the major thing to worry about like the direct costs of a rescue operation and transport to hospital, plus third party liability. If repatriation is necessary then it is only for maximum 8 week trips. I couldn't see any mention of refund of season ski pass if you can't use it. Seems good value as long as you don't want all the extras that come with short period policies, like cancellation cover, baggage, etc.

The Carte Neige seems to provide similar year-round cover to AAC, albeit repatriation to a place outside France is only covered up to a 31 day trip. However a refund of season pass appears to be fully covered. Again it seems good value, though I am a little confused about a mention of needing to be a member of a local ski club at an additional cost - can anybody provide clarity on this?

On the recent thread about "SCGB price hike" also discussing insurance, there is another suggestion of cost-effective cover from Carte Vieux Campeur, again similar cover to the two above, with trip length up to 90 days. Ski pass refund limited to 300 euros.

So it appears to me that if you are going to exceed the trip maximums of any of the above and want to ensure you will get repatriated to the UK then you are going to have to purchase some additional cover. Also looking at worst case scenario, I would hate to shell out 1300 euro on a pass and then get crocked in the first week and have to write off the cost.

I see @Mr.Egg said "carre niege & relying on the EHIC card is not enough" but does not say why. Granted we do not know how Brexit will affect the EHIC but for the moment it should mean you get the same treatment as an EU resident.
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There can be a bit of a hole if relying on the EHIC but it depends on which country you're going to.
EHIC gives same health cover as the natives of the land you're in, NOT the same cover you are used to at home.
So if, as I believe is the case in France, the national cover is for 75% of medical bills, most of the locals will tend to have a standing insurance arrangement to cover the remaining 25% while as a Brit, you won't.
OK, so you get hit with a few hundred quid in medical expenses, covering 25% isn't too painful but if things go bad and you end up with a medical bill of €30k, you're still going to need to find €7,500 to pay your bill. What if the bill was €100k?
Unlikely? Maybe but not unheard of.
As I understand, a well known snowsports club was offering insurance to it's members until a claim came in for €250k, wiping out all the profits since they began and the underwriter canned the scheme.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
quite@andy1234,
https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/health/unplanned-healthcare/payments-reimbursements/index_en.htm

as explained by Admin, you could be left with a whacking great big bill. What if you needed to be flown back home for treatment for example?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Mr.Egg wrote:
What if you needed to be flown back home for treatment for example?
Carré Neige covers repatriation.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
admin wrote:
Mr.Egg wrote:
What if you needed to be flown back home for treatment for example?
Carré Neige covers repatriation.


even onwards transfer after treatment? but needs/easier to be continued back home?
I have no idea about that side.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Unless I see something more attractive, I shall be going for the Knox 4 month single trip policy through the AAC (180 euros apparently, though the membership fee of £39.50 also has to be taken into account).
Until I stopped taking a break and returning to the UK for a couple of weeks in February, the basic AAC cover, which is free, covers all essentials, and is included in membership, was ideal - two periods of 8 weeks (16 weeks cover in a season) for the membership fee of £39.50.
However this thread is obviously very useful and I would appreciate any pointers towards anything more cost-effective.
The problem with most policies (including the annual multi-trip ones provided with bank accounts) is that they restrict the number of days skiing to as little as 17 days per year, which is of course laughable to those of us who are too old to work but not too old to ski.
I hope that Brexit doesn’t really screw things up.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
tatmanstours wrote:

I hope that Brexit doesn’t really screw things up.
Too late there...
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@admin, Surely it’s not a done deal that we’ll be losing the EHIC reciprocal health care scheme?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Quote:

I hope that Brexit doesn’t really screw things up.

I fear it is in many many ways

My wife and I have cover with the BMC. The cover appears good but it is expensive with extra charges for exisiting medical conditions it is more than £400. Moutaineering insurance is expensive. TBH I am not even sure it covers lost luggage, stolen mobile phones or cancellation. This is of no interest to me. To put things in perspective: I had a heart attack a couple years ago that prevented me going on holiday with a few days notice. Airmiles returned our unused airmiles, the hotel at Gatwick cancelled our booking at no cost, the car hire compnay accepted our cancellation and we hadn't even got around to booking accommodation in the Dolomites. I think all we lost was the car parking at Gatwick, which was less than excess on the policy. The bulk of the profit insurance companies make is, I suspect, insuring against the small risks at high cost.
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Who knows about any particular specific... and in that respect alone there's no question it's already screwed things up.
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@admin, another thread has uncovered that under carte neige you only get repatriated to outside France before 31 days, after that it is to your local accommodation. Thanks for the explanation on the hole in the EHIC cover.
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Emergency surgery at a French state hospital is sometimes free with only a daily board and lodgings charge to pay. A week in hospital in Grenoble with 4 hour op to repair a fractured neck was billed at €169. The surgery cost would have been well over 10k.
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£400 is not totally nuts - if you consider a couple skiing all the time for 4 months, walking on icy pavements, driving on icy roads, catching flu etc it is almost odds on you'll have some brush with the medical establishment in that time. Or amortised over 13 weeks individual holidays £30 for a couple would seem a perfectly reasonable premium. Obviously you can poke around but however you do it I imagine you'll end up around £150-£200 per head for the cover whichever way. Some of your choice might depend on where you are -Chamonix where you can almost certainly get treated in a state hospital (and heli-ed to the roof) might be a different proposition to a private clinic only purpose built resort.
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@Dave of the Marmottes, good point about icy pavements. Carte Neige would be useless then, as it is not a skiing accident.
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Funnily enough neither does it cover you for being abducted by the Marmotte nation and forced to be their King.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
One thing you have to watch out for is over insuring. If you buy too many insurance policies, because you cannot get one which covers everything you want, you may find when it comes to claim that some insurers will reduce the payment because you will look like you are comitting insurance fraud.

Then your name will go on an insurance blacklist register, and you cannot dispute this. (you probably will not even know about it)

Best to under insure, and then plan to have your accident where you are fully covered.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Quote:

Funnily enough neither does it cover you for being abducted by the Marmotte nation and forced to be their King.

Are you suggesting that the insurance claim I just submitted is going to be rejected?
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Quote:

plan to have your accident where you are fully covered.

This is clearly the answer, and I can't understand why I didn't think of it before. Get a cheap policy that restricts winter sports cover to a week or two, and plan to have an accident before its expiry date. The chances of having another unplanned accident during the rest of the season must be pretty slim, especially if I'm laid up in hospital.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Bigtipper wrote:
One thing you have to watch out for is over insuring. If you buy too many insurance policies, because you cannot get one which covers everything you want, you may find when it comes to claim that some insurers will reduce the payment because you will look like you are comitting insurance fraud.

Then your name will go on an insurance blacklist register, and you cannot dispute this. (you probably will not even know about it)

Best to under insure, and then plan to have your accident where you are fully covered.


That unfortunately is not great advice. 'Under insurance' gives the insurer the right to 'apply average' and pay out less based on a proportionate view. Not all insurance policies have the 'average clause' and you might want to check - in the case of travel you'd be alright with medical because the limits are so high, but you might get unlucky with cancellation if, for example, your trip cost £10k but you only had £5k cover - a proportionate view 'might' mean they only pay out £2,500. The most common thing to under insure is home contents - I urge you to take ten minutes out to calculate what a total loss might look like and make sure you have sufficient.

'blacklist register' - I don't think so, fake news Laughing . I can't imagine a scenario where you would need multiple travel policies. You might have bank travel insurance and then another personal one elsewhere, and maybe even a work one, and all that happens in the event of a claim is that the insurers share the settlement behind the scenes.

Quote:
you will look like you are comitting insurance fraud
Well, you either are or you aren't. It would be fraudulent to make the same claim multiple times in the hope of being paid out in full multiple times. If you make one claim and declare that you are insured elsewhere then no problem.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Beware....

Year Insurace Cover often has a maximim days per trip..

Like 30 or 60 days..

I.e not a Season..

Also are you a tourist or working??

Working would require Business insurance...
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
My understanding is that with the comprehensive level of cover one of the main things you're paying for is repatriation. This occurs where you have an injury or condition where the best solution is to get you back to the UK for specialist/protracted treatment. Alternatively, where the cover for treatment in the foreign country (EHIC or not) runs out. In this case, you're talking about hiring a 'plane and medical specialists to fly you home. Probably around £15K, perhaps more? An additional benefit is that there is a financial incentive for an insurer to get you back home (which is anyway where you'd rather be) rather than leave you in a foreign hospital, racking-up their bills. Even if the insurer can reclaim come of the costs under the EHIC. So it's important to be sure when comparing policies what the cover is for repatriation, and (like all incurance) something isn't cheaper just because the cover is more restricted.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@admin,
Quote:

As I understand, a well known snowsports club was offering insurance to it's members until a claim came in for €250k, wiping out all the profits since they began and the underwriter canned the scheme.

AFAIK a well-known snowsports club offers annual travel insurance including skiing off-piste without a guide included as part of its Platinum Membership. Or were you thinking of a different club?
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@Gordyjh, SCUK.
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Quote:

there is a financial incentive for an insurer to get you back home (which is anyway where you'd rather be) rather than leave you in a foreign hospital, racking-up their bills.

It seems to have been government policy to support the EHIC scheme, on the basis that it's generally cheaper for Brits to get treated abroad, rather than in an NHS hospital at home.

A friend of ours sustained a neck injury (resurrecting an old car accident injury) whilst skiing last season. She wasn't so disabled that she could not continue to ski, albeit dosed up on painkillers, or that she could not have flown home. However she decided to seek treatment in an Austrian hospital, under the EHIC scheme, on the basis that the treatment might well be better and quicker. She received out-patient treatment at Zell am See and in-patient treatment at another hospital, which kept her in for several days. She was full of praise for the Austrian health care system, and her course of treatment cost her nothing. The only slight fly in the ointment was that she was lambasted by a certain female, Austrian doctor, on the occasion of her initial consultation, for having the temerity to own property in Austria whilst not being able to speak German.
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My main point is to be sure that you're comparing like-with-like, and although it's relatively uncommon, to make sure you have the option to be repatriated (if that's an option you want). The EHIC is a good scheme and we've benefited from it in Switzerland, Italy and France on more than one occasion. But there are some situations where you'd appreciate the option to be flown home using air ambulance and if this costs an extra, say, £30 on the premium you might think it worth paying for. Mind you, I appreciate that spending ages pouring over the fine print is tedious, and even then, doesn't always guarantee that differences in cover are clear.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
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My main point is to be sure that you're comparing like-with-like, and although it's relatively uncommon, to make sure you have the option to be repatriated (if that's an option you want). The EHIC is a good scheme and we've benefited from it in Switzerland, Italy and France on more than one occasion. But there are some situations where you'd appreciate the option to be flown home using air ambulance and if this costs an extra, say, £30 on the premium you might think it worth paying for. Mind you, I appreciate that spending ages pouring over the fine print is tedious, and even then, doesn't always guarantee that differences in cover are clear.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
LaForet wrote:
, I appreciate that spending ages pouring over the fine print is tedious, and even then, doesn't always guarantee that differences in cover are clear.


If you are doing anything unusual relating to insurance then reading the small print carefully is essential. I was sold insurance on a RV and the company was happy to take my substantial premium for full comp even though at the time I would have had only the basic legal minimum because it was the only vehicle I had insured in my own name.

Also remember if doing anything unusual you have to disclose this to the insurance company even if they do not ask for it.
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[quote="admin"]Funnily enough neither does it cover you for being abducted by the Marmotte nation and forced to be their King.[/quote

Serving their Queen is not quite the same as being a King *cough ahem gimp*.
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Annual travel insurance policies called "backpacker" policies are very good value. You can add winter sports to these policies if they are not included at a reasonable cost. These policies are marketed at people who do not want to pay a lot of money, and so cover you only for essentials (although there are varying levels)

I am fairly sure that when I had one of these, you could claim back part of the unused portion if you do not use a full year (like you can with car insurance). Although, they may restrict you to curtate months.

I agree that those who travel on a budget, drive and so are insured under their car insurance, generally do not need much of the guff that travel insurance policies try and add on. For example, my boots were stolen while abroad when they were inside my locked van. Now this would be covered under car insurance. As the boots were old, and needing replacing anyway, the cost of replacement of 10 year old boots would probably be less than £50 which would be under the excess of the policy anyway. Also, getting the lock repaired after it was knifed would have cost a fortune, instead I just stuffed some chemical metal inside the lock and made it un-openable from the outside unless you have a drill.

Lesson I learned from that experience, was not to leave old smelly boots in the front of a van. Keep them hidden from sight, or they will be taken. Also, self insurance is a valid insurance policy when it comes to loss of material items that are not very expensive. Self insurance is not valid when you life is at risk. A totally basic travel insurance policy would have an excess set at your credit card limit. It would cover you only for life threatening expenses incurred above that excess, which were not covered by your EHIC card or your car insurance in the event of a car accident. Sadly, this would not make the insurance industry any money, so it could only be offered by your credit card provider at no cost!
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