 Poster: A snowHead
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| hammerite wrote: |
| pam w wrote: |
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even Les Duex Alpes
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Plenty of hairpins on the way up there! |
I think, off the top of my head, that there’s 17 hairpin bends. |
21 apparently!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| kitenski wrote: |
| hammerite wrote: |
| pam w wrote: |
| Quote: |
even Les Duex Alpes
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Plenty of hairpins on the way up there! |
I think, off the top of my head, that there’s 17 hairpin bends. |
21 apparently! |
Is it really? 21 for AdH. Didn’t think there were that many for L2A. They’re a much easier 21 to ride a bike up.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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There are big numbers on the wall, on the bends up to L2A - but I can't remember the numbers. It's a big, easy, road though. The frequent landslides on the road lower down might be a worse hazard!
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@hammerite, agh, that's me not reading it right. AdH is 21, no idea on L2A!!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Yeah it’s the 21 hairpins I want to avoid. But the drive up the mountain is not the main criteria for resort choice, I thought it would possibly give some extra ideas that I didn’t consider. Which it did. There’s no way I want to stay at the bottom of the mountain and gondola up each day though, despite cheap cost of hotels.
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We've driven to Val Thorens, Flaine and La Plagne. Honestly, driving up to the resorts is the least unpleasant part about the whole thing, though in fairness we've never had any significant traffic issues on the way up. Had to stop to put on chains due to weather for Flaine and VT, but once they're on driving becomes straightforward.
All resorts were easy to access, and once you're travelling at least 8 hours in France, whether its 10, 9 or 8 in the end it doesn't feel much like a problem.
Traffic jams on the motorways are far more relevant in the driving equation, and if you're travelling to a resort at the same time as the French traffic is heading there because of school holidays etc, you just need to factor in at least an extra hour compared to Google Maps estimate of travelling time. If you don't need it, great, but better be on the safe side. And it can of course be longer than 1 hour! Make sure you have data switched on on your phone so you can get live traffic updates, there are often perfectly sensible routes to avoid big jams (e.g. over Le Chat to Chambery to avoid Lyon).
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Think we are going by train afterall  day train, cross in Paris £238 for 2 and I couldn’t find a cheap ferry or eurotunnel less than £135!! So decided spend on chalet and save on the journey.
Was very tempted by Southend Geneva flights but transfers are £££ and such a bore on a Saturday
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There are no cheap ferries from Dover this year ..its always pleasant on the train...enjoy the trip
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| hammerite wrote: |
| pam w wrote: |
| Quote: |
even Les Duex Alpes
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Plenty of hairpins on the way up there! |
I think, off the top of my head, that there’s 17 hairpin bends. |
You could stop in Venosc, though not ski in ski out, but definitely no hairpins. I stopped at Les 2 M chambre d’hotes there which was great.
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@Lucywuk, yes, Megeve, lovely town with access to big ski area if you like clocking up the kilometres.
Les Gets good too and don’t remember it being difficult to drive to.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Think we are going by train afterall Very Happy day train, cross in Paris £238 for 2
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That is a very good price. What dates are you travelling and where exactly are you travelling to and from?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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One of the reasons we plumped for Les Carroz was the easier drive in. Having to get the bottom of the Tignes road by 7am on a Saturday had lost it appeal. Even if you push onto Flaine the drive is not 'hairy'. No mountain edge stuff to speak of, mostly driving through alpine meadows, you just pop over the top by the golf course before dropping into the Flaine bowl. Megeve/Combloux and St Gervais all similar as well. Or you can just do Les Houches/Chamonix and motorway all the way.
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Am I alone in wondering, but not liking to ask, why a couple who appreciate
would want to drive for two days from the UK to the French Alps in January weather, paying autoroute tolls and staying somewhere overnight, instead of simply getting a return flight for around £40 and hopping on an airport to resort shuttle service? Let alone choosing the Western end of the Alps, where high altitude resorts are necessary to find decent snow, and where tortuous mountain roads, hairpin bends, jams, and high prices are pretty normal. I've done it in early April, but that was for a two week holiday in peak (Easter) season and with a family of four. I've just bagged flights to Salzburg for £16, with a short, easy transfer at the other end - early flight and on the slopes by midday(ish)
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You know it makes sense.
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| tatmanstours wrote: |
| Am I alone in wondering, but not liking to ask, why a couple who appreciate
would want to drive for two days from the UK to the French Alps in January weather, paying autoroute tolls and staying somewhere overnight, instead of simply getting a return flight for around £40 and hopping on an airport to resort shuttle service? Let alone choosing high French resorts where tortuous mountain roads, hairpin bends, jams, and high prices are pretty normal. I've done it in early April, but that was for a two week holiday in peak (Easter) season and with a family of four. I've just bagged flights to Salzburg for £16, with a short, easy transfer at the other end - early flight and on the slopes by midday(ish) |
have you met my husband 
he thinks its more relaxing and more flexible
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| johnE wrote: |
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Think we are going by train afterall Very Happy day train, cross in Paris £238 for 2
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That is a very good price. What dates are you travelling and where exactly are you travelling to and from? |
Ebbsfleet to Moutier Saturday 12th Jan - returning Saturday 19th Jan. Via Paris. Its a 1hr drive for us to Ebbsfleet and cheaper parking than going to St Pancras by train (again about 1 hour journey)
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Poster: A snowHead
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I've just bagged flights to Salzburg for £16
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Wow, Easyjet charge that much just to put a bag in the hold each way + more for the skis.
The cheepest I could find to Salzburg with a single hold bag and no skis for the Christmas week £290 per person with Jet2. Lufthansa was an eye watering £456 and that doesn't include getting to the airport or parking at the airport in the UK. I suspect driving there and back with skis and full luggage a will come in at about £450 for the whole family.
It takes about 14 to 17 hours to get from home to Les Arcs, not 2 days. I don't expect any jams, the 3 hairpin bends from Bourg to the resort are no problem (though I have to confess the M25 is a much bigger problem), the resort is a little more expensive than the UK but not worryingly so and I have no intention of staying anywhere overnight on route.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Thanks for that useful information @Lucywuk,
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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choosing the Western end of the Alps, where high altitude resorts are necessary to find decent snow, and where tortuous mountain roads, hairpin bends, jams, and high prices are pretty normal
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 here we go again.... this is just as tiresome, and as wrong, as the "Austrian resorts are too low" mantra. Give it a rest.
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| johnE wrote: |
It takes about 14 to 17 hours to get from home to Les Arcs, not 2 days. I don't expect any jams, the 3 hairpin bends from Bourg to the resort are no problem (though I have to confess the M25 is a much bigger problem), the resort is a little more expensive than the UK but not worryingly so and I have no intention of staying anywhere overnight on route. |
I agree about the M25 - the contrast between that road and the free flowing French motorways is embarrassing. I normally choose to break the journey overnight but split it close to Calais as the driving in France is so much more pleasant and relaxed.
When I started skiing I chose to drive simply because of an absolute terror of flying. There may well be others here on snowHeads who feel as I did.  Nowadays, as a more frequent visitor to the Alps, I like the freedom to make the journey whenever I feel like it without being concerned about short-notice air fares or flight availability.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Avoid the south east altogether. Hull to Rotterdam, and down the empty German autobahns to Switzerland.
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@Lucywuk,
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@Lucywuk, where are you going to from Moutiers?
Several minor roads we could go on about for ages
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
Quote:
I've just bagged flights to Salzburg for £16
Wow, Easyjet charge that much just to put a bag in the hold each way + more for the skis.
The cheepest I could find to Salzburg with a single hold bag and no skis for the Christmas week £290 per person with Jet2
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@johnE, Admittedly my flight is before Christmas, and the all-inclusive price (Stansted to Salzburg) came to an 'exorbitant' £34 - but that includes 20 kilos of hold luggage, two carry-on bags, and priority boarding. However, just out of curiosity, I've just costed the flights to Salzburg on 12th January, returning on 19th, and they're currently going for £23 one way, £42 return. Great if you're not tied to peak holiday weeks.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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maybe I should explain the back story to the question.
We’ve done overnight train twice, once with kids, once without. And sworn never again
We’ve driven down. Twice. With and without kids. Had car broken into in the public car park at Vaujany and all our stuff stolen. We think an inside job as the apartment reception suggested we pack up the evening before to save us racing to pack/check out/ski the next day. Only GB plate cars were targeted and we saw about 4 had been crowbarred open. Reported to police, but apparently we were wrong, that doesn’t happen in vaujany
We have flown numerous times, with and without kids. But loathe the 3am start to get to the airport by 4 and flight at 6am. Plus the hideous transfers in queues of traffic with coach sick vomiting kids
So without kids (teenagers left at home) husband thought a relaxing 700 mile drive I looked at flights which are great price, but add £90 each way transfer and train seems a great option. We are happy traveling via Paris, quick and cheap transfer from Les moutiers to la Tania. Leave home at 6am or even 6:30.
So now it’s just the chalet
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@Lucywuk, What a horrible experience in Vaujany (always thought it was a sleepy hollow!) to end your holiday. I can well imagine how you must have felt on the way home and can understand why you're looking for a change from that particular resort. I'm a little surprised that your husband still apparently thinks it's "more relaxing" to drive!
Having driven down to the Alps many times (Val d'Isere, Les Menuires, Alpe d'Huez, Les Deux Alpes, Serre Chevalier/Monetier, Les Arcs/Vallandry, La Plagne/Montalbert, Saalbach), and enjoyed the overnight stops in characterful B&Bs, as well as the opportunity to inflict my entire catalogue of progressive rock music on the long-suffering Mrs TT, I can perhaps empathise with your husband's willingness to drive 700 miles each way - although in my case it was usually much later in the season than January. (The only time I did it in Dec/Jan, we ended up being towed off the autobahn with a clutch problem, and having an unscheduled 4 night hotel stay, whilst suffering from man flu, in Pforzheim).
I can empathise with what you say about early starts, but you can get mid-morning and early afternoon flights for under £100 in January.
As for the "hideous transfers", I suppose that much depends on where you fly to. Speaking for my neck of the woods, the most effective compromise between comfort and cost (a public bus costs around EUR 15 but takes 2 hours 30 mins) is a door to door private taxi transfer from Salzburg Airport for EUR 150 (c.£130), which takes only just over an hour and, at just over £30 per person for a family of four is usually considered worth splashing out for. Otherwise (if you're going as a couple) there's an eight times a day, door to door shuttle service (invariably using MPV taxis) for £39 per person (£75 return). (Another less convenient but cheaper compromise for an airport transfer is of course the local train service, and this can sometimes be the best option if you're heading to a resort that has a rail connection with the airport.)
As for the queues of traffic and vomiting kids, again much depends on your choice of resort and mode of transfer (and queues can still be encountered if you self-drive of course). As others have commented, many resorts (particularly further east, where typically a resort at 1,000m altitude can offer similar snow conditions to one at 1,600m in the western Alps) have good road access without the sort of tortuous mountain roads that you may have previously encountered (and which might even involve snow chains in January).
No doubt it's all in the planning, and picking the brains of the Snowhead community is a sensible start.
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@Lucywuk, that's a really sad tale and must have really tainted that experience and made you wary for the future. What I can say is that I have driven probably 30+ times to Paradiski, 3V, ADH and others. We don't routinely stay over on the journey to/from the resort but have on a number of occasions. And in resort we tend to park in outdoor public parking areas or on the street. We have (touch wood) never had or seen a car break in - though I've never discounted the possibility of it happening - especially when fully loaded. I think the worst nights worry I had was when we stayed in a budget F1-style hotel in an industrial estate on the outskirts of Paris leaving the car outside in an unsecured car parking area. I think I got up once an hour to check on it and slept poorly. We do normally half/three quarter pack on the Friday night though to be fair most of it is not visible or particularly valuable. Anyway, I guess my point is that I think you just got unlucky on this occasion and it shouldn't put you off driving in the future for that reason. Easy to say I know but nevertheless I hope our experience provides some reassurance.
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You know it makes sense.
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Just on the general driving thing...
First principle: driving isn't generally cheaper and shouldn't be your no 1 reason for choosing that mode of transport. Don't get me wrong it can be but you have 3 instead of 4 in the car, or need to buy winter/chains and so on...
Second principle: one of the biggest draws is being able to ski two extra days (both Saturdays) with the only additional cost being the lift pass. Virtually all other costs are fixed.
Beyond that...
With kids we find if we drive overnight it works well because they will sleep reasonably happily and not get bored/whinge. Also you pack at one end and unpack at the other. You can have stuff to hand for accidents, refreshment, amusement. And you can stop, take a break at your convenience. I think some of these is were the "more relaxing" comes from.
If self catering it's easier to take what you need and or do a shop on the way in. You are a little bit more in control of events.
Of course, flying or training have their fun/nice parts too - especially if you don't have to carry too much gear. There is no wrong or right - or perfect solution.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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And just on the specific of a long drive up the mountain. It's not a deal breaker but certainly it is a factor for us. I guess our view is why do you need to be at Val T or Aime/Arc 2000 or ADH when you can stay at 1300/1400 a little more comfortably (altitude wise), have a shorter drive into resort and a longer ski down each day! Also parking tends to be easier in the lower villages. Also I'd rather be lower/in the trees when a storm blows in.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| tatmanstours wrote: |
| I'm a little surprised that your husband still apparently thinks it's "more relaxing" to drive! |
Cost issues aside, I prefer to drive as I find it more relaxing than other ways of getting to the (French) Alps. I'm about 90 minutes from Folkestone so I don't find it too long a drive to get to resorts in the northern French Alps (nothing further south than the Tarentaise) in one day. I drove to Hintertux at the start of last season, just one driver, and thantwas just a little bit too long to do in one hit, so flying would have been a better option or breaking the drive across two days. But having no luggage restrictions, the simplicity of getting in to your car outside your house and then from your car to your hotel at the other end, a calmer environment when your travelling, all make driving a bit more enjoyable for me than flying or taking the train.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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We are trying St. Gervais this xmas for reason of proximity. We're coming from Paris, but I would be very surprised if we encounter anything but the normal holiday autoroute traffic. The Evasion Mt. Blanc is pretty accessible, you can throw in Les Houches, Chamonix and Megeve. Also, Les Gets is very accessible, and so is Morzine. The road from Cluses to the Giffre Valley, i.e. Morillon/Samoens, is very twisty and hairpinny, but it's at a very low altitude. Nonetheless, if there was a blizzard you'd have a difficult few kms, I think..
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@rob@rar, I start in Scotland & still prefer to drive, yes it takes a day longer but i'm fine with that.
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| Jonny996 wrote: |
| @rob@rar, I start in Scotland & still prefer to drive, yes it takes a day longer but i'm fine with that. |
That's quite a drive! I did a course in Aviemore a few years ago, and it was better to drive up from London. I knew it would be a long way, so was pleased to see the sign at the end of the M6 'Welcome to Scotland'. Then my satnav told me I still had more than four hour's drive...
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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We drive from Ireland with one stop...lol.u say!!...taking own gear is a big saving when taking three kids and 2 parents. If u priced 5 flights from remand to Alps and added in ski hire X 5 then you might see the method to the madness!
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Ferry from Dublin to Holyhead then drive to tunnel. A boat at 5pm gets us to tunnel for around 6am. We then drive an hour or two before a break and car nap before driving through to wherever. ADH this year. So about 30 hours door to door. I know it's not to everyone's taste...but it's the only was we can afford a winter and summer holidays.night driving through UK is only way.
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FAQ
