 Poster: A snowHead
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| David Goldsmith wrote: |
More to come ... |
please no more
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| PG wrote: |
David Goldsmith, gawd's sake, who cares, off on one of your crusades again?  |
| ise wrote: |
| David Goldsmith wrote: |
More to come ... |
please no more |
It's not right to take that attitude. This thread was dead. It was revived with some hearsay that a journalist had "absolutely" misquoted the performance director of the British Ski Team. That was effectively reported as fact, because the newspaper was accused of "muckspreadin' ". We don't know the truth, as yet.
It's not a "crusade" to find out what's going on ... it's just routine journalism ... and I think you might find it quite interesting what's going on.
There may be some clues in JohnHill's posting.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Andi Robertson did babysit the running of the SnowsportGB HQ prior to the appointment of Jason Colborn. He knows Mark Tilston pretty well (and everyone else connected). This wasn't your typical journalist v subject meeting... this was two blokes (colleagues even) who know each other well and, for my money, it sounds like MT simply divulged his real feelings in a matey chat and AR decided it was fair game to report it and I'd support his decision there. Reading the piece again, I think it has a very real ring to it (not much different to what others have said and are indeed saying). It's not been retracted because nobody has complained to the Scotsman and because there's actually nothing to complain about. The Scotsman isn't the kind of paper that has anything to gain by tweaking such a story (it's hardly going to increase sales now is it?) and I think you'd best assume the whole thing is true. But so what? Did anyone die?
It all boils down to professionalism. We may not like what the media is capable of doing but it's there, in power, and you have to know how to play that particular game. Tilston got done (and in the same circumstances, it would have happened to any of us), but my main problem with TeamGB and the media is the example of the aforementioned Baxter interview with Hazell Irvine... downbeat, negative, still going on about something that happened 4 years ago. With the right media coaching Baxter would have moved us all on from that, told us how he was going to attack this Olympics and give that big fat armchair fan something to support... and, yes, these people do fund all the fun... they pay tax (which funds UK Sport), they buy lottery tickets (money that finds its way into sport) and they respond to TV ads.
Has anyone spoken with all those concerned about this and what's their official story? (Not that it matters anymore)
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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David Goldsmith, 10,000 posts! Congratulations. I was proud to have been quoted in your 9,000th... but now this! I'm over the moon Brian.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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My problem with the media game, is that quite often it causes people harm, but I've yet to hear of a journalist taking responsibility for that harm.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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"JohnHill" (whose real name is MotherTeresa, BTW) - thank you for that.
Kramer. I agree that strict ethical standards must apply to the media, and editors and journalists should be accountable like anyone else. But the media performs an important role in holding the public's partners and representatives to account.
This thread is not about some sort of prank or game. As JohnHill states, we're dealing with a (part) publicly-funded situation, the performance director of the British Ski Team and the athletes he's involved with. It's perfectly valid for journalists to get behind the PR curtain and obtain what may be (hopefully is) an honest quote from that performance director. In retrospect Mark Tilston may wish(we don't know) that his views were private to his team, but the journalist has done a valid job here if he's transcribed the quote accurately.
You're not suggesting that the British Ski Team should operate in some sort of private media-exclusion-zone, are you?
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| David Goldsmith wrote: |
| PG wrote: |
| David Goldsmith, gawd's sake, who cares, off on one of your crusades again? |
| ise wrote: |
| David Goldsmith wrote: |
More to come ... |
please no more |
It's not right to take that attitude. |
Don't preach.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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And to remind snowHeads of Andi Robertson's journalistic efforts in the Women's Combined at the Olympics, the SH thread is here, and the full text of the Robertson/SSGB press release is in this article.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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PG. Do you agree that we should simply establish whether Andi Robertson's quote of Mark Tilston is correct?(i.e. has Tilston made any complaint about it?)
Extending into some sort of issue you have over a PR release about an unconnected racer is not quite the same thing!
Let's keep focused here.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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David Goldsmith, as I wrote earlier, I have listened to the taped recording (and have a copy) of the Tilston interview that took place earlier this week, and there was no suggestion that the word 'hunger' was not used. Just Tilston's wholehearted support for A. Baxter and the hint - as I interpreted it - that the quote was taken slightly out of context and therefore led to misunderstanding.
Even if commissioned to write on behalf of the Scotsman, with his other (paid) hat on as press officer for SSGB, I would have said it was a strange approach to take, but then taking his Chemmy effort into consideration, perhaps not so strange after all.
If you focus too hard you won't be able to see the wood for the trees.
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| JohnHill wrote: |
| The head boy of British ski racing, in whom huge resources are invested (when considered against the meagre overall resources of the sport's governing body), didn’t score a single World Cup point this season. A collection of DNFs and DNQs simply isn’t good enough. I think Noel would have done better and he deserves his chance. |
I forgot to mention possibly the most crucial point in my previous rebuttal of the above. Even head coach Schwaiger, a fan of Baxter's, wasn't in favour of automatic allocation of the WC slalom spot to Alain.
Hence prior to World Cup slalom races, as I understand it, there was a race-off, involving Alain Baxer, Noel Baxter, and Leuzinger. To the best of my knowledge Alain won all the race-offs to justify his place in the World Cup slaloms. And by a fair margin too. Given this fact the above anti-Alain waffle simply doesn't stand up.
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You know it makes sense.
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With absolutely no inference, innuendo intended (no reading between the lines please  ) I think I'm right in recalling that Andi Robertson was acting Chief Exec of Snowsport GB for several months before he had to step down to make way for Jason Cockburn, current CEO and another 'media man', with a background in the Sky empire, I believe?
I wonder how well they get on...
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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OK, PG, I think that's enough.
So far, you seem to be alluding (no direct evidence whatsoever) to Andi Robertson having misquoted Mark Tilston ...
... on the strength of a tape of an interview (a different interview, it seems).
... the posting above - inference and innuendo is precisely what it is
... an assertion about an unrelated press release concerning Chemmy Alcott
... something about Andi Robertson being 'Snowsport GB's officially appointed PR writer for the 2005/2006 season'
Perhaps it's time you afforded Andi Robertson (who I've never met and don't know) the right of reply, or somehow checked the facts with him and Mark Tilston.
If this kind of treatment was dished out to you I should think you'd be f*cking furious.
Admin, can you now explain how your earlier posting of 27 March came about? You were pretty definitive about your facts. How could Alain Baxter have known what Mark Tilston said to Andi Robertson - he can't have been there, surely?
Last edited by Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name: on Sat 1-04-06 13:55; edited 1 time in total
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Poster: A snowHead
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Is there anyone apart from DG and PG who has managed to follow this?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Laundryman, best to skip back to the Scotsman article, which is what this thread is all about:
http://sport.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=299372006
The quote being contended is at the end of the article, but we don't know if the man quoted actually has any problem with it!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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David Goldsmith, you really haven't a clue, have you. I genuinely find it hard to believe that even you really believe such a nonsensensical interpretation of my words.
I specifically stated, quite clearly, that there was no misquote to the best of my knowledge. Context is a separate issue, but no less relevant.
laundryman, to be honest, I haven't the foggiest where DG is coming from most of the time.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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To clarify for the benefit of anyone else struggling to follow this.
The dual roles of Andi Robertson with respect to freelance writings for the Scotsman and press release compiling for Snowsport GB, along with his prevous temporary role at the helm of SSGB, were mentioned in order to provide background information for the purposes of this discussion. People can take account - or otherwise - of that information as they see fit.
They can also consider the merits or otherwise of the Chemmy Alcott press release, compiled by Andi Robertson and approved I believe by CEO Jason Cockburn, and decide for themselves whether it is relevant or not. I don't need to be preached to about "what's enough", and I doubt anyone else does either.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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laundryman, Yes, I've managed to follow it all. It has not been a complex issue at all.
DG has (unfortunately in this case) chosen to champion the professionalism of journalists. PG has simply chosen to quote SSGGB professionals at what they do best (NB - That would be a short thread).
Frankly ( removing wood , trees and other crap) the only losers are Messrs R and Titsup who seem to have contrived to have created more ridicule for British snowsports than if they didn't exist.
What I'm saying is - cut away the personal stuff - and look at the nonsense in the sport we love.
Just my view !!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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I thought I was following this, but now I'm officially lost. DG and PG are knocking lumps off of each other for apparently agreeing - that Tilston was quoted correctly (although possibly some context could have coloured thing differently). DG goes into battle on his trusty white charger of journalstic integrity (aka high horse), but PG then contradicts him with "I have listened to the taped recording (and have a copy) of the Tilston interview that took place earlier this week, and there was no suggestion that the word 'hunger' was not used.", i.e. DG is right that Tilston was not misquoted. But then goes on to very definitely NOT say that the journalist in question is a double agent with a grudge about not keeping the top job, oh no sirree!
Confused...you will be. 
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BTW - is this the 5 minute argument or the full half hour?
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GrahamN, - grudges? That's impossible to say. I don't know the man, other than a few brief meetings. But it's relevant - at the very least in that it shows he has an in-depth knowledge of the inner workings of SSGB, he's not some journo writing about something he knows little about.
My point is that as ever in situations like this there is a lot more than meets the eye. What I find confusing is how someone can be commissioned to write a piece for an independent journal, while being employed for the season to write positive press items for Snowsport GB. There could be a degree of conflict of interest.
I imagine that when a Snowsport GB employee or athlete speaks to the press officer, it could be a little confusing for the former as well. Which hat is being worn? How much is a press officer responsible for giving a positive spin to a discussion/article?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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http://www.britski.org/headcoach.pdf
... no vacancies showing on the SSGB site ...somebody else already lined up for the PD peut-etre ?
interesting acknowledgement of the need for administrative skills ... diplomacy perhaps as well.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I certainly have not been approached, and I know that my brother would probably view it as a retrograde move. Still, "never say never"
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Martin Bell, Nice to see you back !
At least you can see why I'm not a betting-type
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It does seem odd that the Performance Dictator had the last word on who was to be appointed Head Coach (so I have been told by one of the Current GB Team racers!).
It also seems odd that a coach who has a proven track record in taking racers to the top (nothing higher but the Overall World Cup) who did apply for the job was not offered it. But then when you realise that the previous incumbant of the Head Coach position and this guy have history then it is hardly surprising that he did not get the job! Cynical? Maybe but the sport has taken leaps and bounds forward (results wise) in the last few years and this does not give me cause for optimism I must say!
Tilston should be given an opportunity to do his best but quite frankly I can't see this as a positive move forward!
In the view of how this thread started what must Alain Baxter be thinking now? I know he cares not one jot about what is written in the press but he needs new motivation in terms of coaching and the decision of Christian Schwaiger to move on is evidence of this.
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