 Poster: A snowHead
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The performance director of Britain's ski team at the Turin Olympics - Mark Tilston - says that he was "very disappointed" at the results of Alain and Noel Baxter in the races at Sestriere, feeling that they didn't take enough risks ... lacked motivation ... and were not "really hungry".
This report from Scotsman.com
Alain Baxter finished 16th in the slalom. Noel placed 20th.
Is Tilston right?
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Tue 28-02-06 13:15; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I couldn't, after recent posts, give hoot what he thinks. I am however interested how the Baxter Bros and British Public feel. 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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SMALLZOOKEEPER, I'm with you on this, I think the mans an back bottom!
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I didn't really type "back bottom"!!!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Tilston is just saying what many have been saying about AB for a long time now and he's his best mate so AB better listen up. I see him interviewed on TV and am left feeling like I've just spent half an hour in therapy. He sounds depressed, makes me depressed and yet he should really be buzzing about the lifestyle he leads and the opportunities he has. Interestingly, he won Superstars and yet the media can't be bothered to use him. He's basically an all time low-reactor... I reckon several kilotons of TNT couldn't wake him up.
As it happens, I thought he gave it a good go on Saturday and, as we saw with 35 others, if he'd pushed it we may not have had a result at all. According to John Clark, he's considering another 3-4 years on the circuit so there's still time to really go for it.
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| DAVID F wrote: |
| I didn't really type "back bottom"!!! |
I'm glad to hear it. It should of course be "a back bottom", rather than "an back bottom".
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The snowHeads mower should convert it to a**e, if there's an issue here. I agree that the sentence looks ridiculous, and people shouldn't have to say "I didn't type that".
It's a shame to have a thread side-tracked to issues about language.
Carry on!
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U can't blame the boy (Alain Baxter) for finding it hard to display a sunny disposition.
This is the man who achieved Britain's first ever Olympic medal in an alpine discipline.
All those years of training, practice and competition finally being worth it as he gets to prove, for us all, that this 'non-alpine nation' who don't fund their athletes properly etc etc (see the other threads) really can be a serious contender. To have born that weight of responsibility, the hope of the nation, and to have come through must have been the ultimate buzz!!!
Then, to have this pinnacle of achievement snatched away in his moment of glory?!?
And all because of a substance he ingested accidentally which isn't even performance enhancing!!!
(Actually, I might be wrong here but isn't that isotope even off the banned list now?)
For 4 years, he's been asked about it pretty well every time he's on TV and what person could possibly not feel gutted at each and every mention of such a thing? How often do we see a report about Alain Baxter that does not refer to him losing his medal?
IMV he's got more guts and gusto than most, to even put a pair of skis on after that, let alone to be back in the rankings this year!
Yes, I was disappointed that he only got 16th and it was obvious that Alain Baxter was too. Frankly I wanted to see him at least get the bronze back that is (IMO) rightfully his - he wanted the FIS points of the top 15.
Nevertheless, IMV he's a British Sporting Hero and all the greater for having taken a knock that hard and still have it in him to race!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
Then, to have this pinnacle of achievement snatched away in his moment of glory?!?
And all because of a substance he ingested accidentally which isn't even performance enhancing!!!
(Actually, I might be wrong here but isn't that isotope even off the banned list now?)
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I thought (but may be wrong) that the substance in the American Vicks inhaler isn't on the banned list, but is so similar to a banned stimulant that it comes up positive as that stimulant in the tests done at the olympics. An additional test could have been done to diferentiate between the two, but wasn't standard practise. Alain wanted the additional test done tp prove his innocence - the olympic committee refused. Another reason why Alain is so p1ssed off.
I agree Mark Tilston is an @rse, both Baxter brothers performances were good - better than any recent performance on the World Cup Circuit so they had clearly upped their game for the olympics
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| Quote: |
| better than any recent performance on the World Cup Circuit |
Agreed on all of the above - well said admin - but bear in mind national teams are limited in number for the Olympics, so quite a few of the top-ranked World Cup athletes from the Alpine states, the US and Canada weren't competing in Turin.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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As I understand it, there are two isotopes of Crystal Meth; one of which is the famous drug which is performance enhacing; the other of which is in the American version of Vicks (but not the UK one) but is not performance enhancing.
The initial test done for the substance did not differentiate between isotopes and indeed, neither did the rule. Hence, technically, both were banned although one for no reason other than its similarity on a molecular level to the other.
The second, later test did make this differentiation but, although this vindicated Baxter on moral and performance grounds, technically he still had a banned substance in him when he raced.
Imagine they banned a ski for giving an unfair technical advantage and then disqualified u for using a 'normal' ski simply because it looked, sounded or smelled like the banned one.
Last edited by snowHeads are a friendly bunch. on Tue 28-02-06 15:19; edited 1 time in total
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Is Titsup right? Well as right as he has ever been about anything in the last 6 weeks. I think the man should be dumped by SSGB as soon as he gets back to the UK. His PR release re 'narrow skis' for Chemmy Alcott still beggars belief .. less Vino Rosso would seem to be in order
What does the man think he's saying ? Alain has carried the can for British alpine skiing for 4 years .. whether we think he's motivated or not is immaterial to me. Yes, his position may have been 'exaggerated' due to the Olympic quotas but he didn't care ?? Please !
Perhaps the Baxter family didn't wine and dine the SSGB performance director as well as some of the other families?
What a shame that our last memory of the Alpine skiing in these Olympics from a British official will be of criticising his own ... with an attitude like that would you like your kids to be accountable to him ?
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Taking us further from the point, and in entirely pedantic manner... 
It wouldn't have been different isotopes of crystal meth, isotopes are atoms of an element of which are different only in the number of neutrons in their nuclei. I'm guessing that for the substance in question we are talking about different stereoisomers these are molecules which have identical chemical structures but different "handedness", handedness is important in biology because many biological reactions are stereo-specific - i.e. one stereoisomer works whilst the other doesn't. The third possibility is that we are talking about different isomers, different isomers have the same chemical formula (i.e. numbers of carbon, hydrogen and oxygen) but different chemical structure.
Returning to Alain Baxter, it seems a bit much to complain he isn't very jolly at interview and getting results in the top 20 at the Olympics is not at all bad
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You know it makes sense.
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Ian Hopkinson, different isomers rings a bell....
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| JohnHill wrote: |
| I see him interviewed on TV and am left feeling like I've just spent half an hour in therapy. |
Are you recommending that SSGB should spend some (more?) money on PR training, or perhaps that Alain should be a bit more like Bode Miller ()?
I met Alain a couple of times some years ago and he seemed like a perfectly pleasant and happy chap, and he immediately exuded his passion for skiing (of course, that was before he was shafted by the IOC). I don't think that TV is a terribly good medium for properly conveying people's personality. I know a couple of people who appear on TV from time to time. In person they are very much larger than life characters but on the small screen they seem to be just regular people. John, I think you're judging Alain a bit harshly if you're being critical of his performance in TV interviews.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I've never seen Baxter interviewed, but I think that sportspeople who receive public cash should try to be a bit jolly when interviewed. After all, part of the justification for them leading their chosen lifestyle at our expense is to encourage others to join in. One doesn't expect, or want, glib PR skills or fatuous overenthusiasm, but a bit of entusiasm and cheeriness is a good idea.
There seems to be a suggestion that Baxter's grumpiness is down to his unfortunate experience in SLC. Get over it, mate. If that's the worst thing that ever happens to you, you're a lucky man.
Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Tue 28-02-06 16:32; edited 1 time in total
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Isn't Tilston's opinion at odds with the British Chef de Mission( whatever that is). I read in a report that he was satisfied with the performances and medal returns for the amount spent (£2.3m on winter olympics and 1 medal - £30m on summer olympics and 13 medals, roughly the same cost per medal).
Quite honestly I don't think we can expect an amazing medal haul when you consider what the British team is up against in terms of other country's facilities. I think all our competitors did their best and did really well
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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For what it's worth, I thought Alain Baxter skied rather well on Saturday, given the disappointments of recent seasons and mixed results. He's proved again that he is a world class slalom skier who is potentially capable of top ten finishes. It's probabale he wont repeat the succesess of 2001 and 2002 but I do think there's more in the tank.
Quite why people confuse Baxter's perceived 'grumpiness' with a lack of motivation is a mystery to me. Because he doesn't invoke meaningless positive mantras in his speech doesn't mean he isn't motivated-the two aren't necessarily connected.
I find it quite refreshing that we have a skier who doesn't feel it's necessary to indulge in hyperbole, the language of 'cool dudes' and other new school boring orthodoxies.
Keep going Alain.
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halfhand, especially when many of our skiing atheletes pay most of their own costs and equipment, with our one Silver winner Shelley Rudman paying £3000 for her own sled, I'd love to know how much support other countries give their winter olympic competitors compared to us. I'm sure it would make fascinating reading, I suspect that Mark Tilston probably gets more money than any of the atheletes
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Definitely different stereoisomers. L-isomer is a harmless mild decongestant, the D-isomer is crystal meth.
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Well I think both Baxter brothers skied well and look hopeful for the future. In a sport where confidence is king, this result will help to improve their confidence and hopefully their results - until idiot Tilston put his halfpennywoth in that is. Anything less guaranteed to inprove the performance of athletes in any competition than to be criticised like this by their boss is unimaginable.
I thought the one disappointing result was finlay in the downhill - he finished out of the top 20 I think, so why are the Baxters being singled out?
Don't mistake highland quietness for depression anyone. Most highlanders are quiet and thoughtful people, not extroverts - even John clarke! Anyone who wasn't happy to see Alain win Superstars wasn't female!!!! More of you male types should aspire to a bod like that!!!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Not on the one occasion we spent some time chatting! (Ok we were in a hospitality tent at the time.... )
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if anyone wants to know the full Baxter story, read the book, it explains the isomer differences brilliantly and gives the history of why the IOC refused to do the separation test. the court case with the CAS and the clearing of his name. I have posted about this book before, i know Alain (not well, but well enough to call him up) and there are a lot of bits in the book re his upbringing and history that i think many of his closer friends do not know.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| halfhand wrote: |
| I read in a report that he was satisfied with the performances and medal returns for the amount spent (£2.3m on winter olympics and 1 medal - £30m on summer olympics and 13 medals, roughly the same cost per medal). |
To be honest I think it is always an achievement when Britain brings back a single medal from the winter olympics but I do think the haul last summer is a poor benchmark. We did poorly in the summer olympics. But lots of people run, we have good enough facilities for track events so I would expect more from the summer games.
Does the 32.3m represent value for money? Can someone define that for me?
Personally I'm not that bothered who wins. I find all the nationalistic claptrap that surrounds the games so.... 20th century. Time to move on and enjoy (or not) all the performances.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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davidof, know what you mean, but it's a good job that the athletes don't turn up thinking like that  ...
"After you, sir"
"No please, I insist, after you!"...
The international rivalry is pretty harmless as well, only an extension of the individual competitive instinct, and it's got to be better to take it out on the playing field rather than the battlefield?
Still, I agree it does get out of hand sometimes. And let's face it, gold medals are purchased in many respects. Not matter how good the athlete, without all the facilities, an accessible quality competition circuit, training, dietary and medical support, funds that permit him/her to train and compete full time, with top quality coaches, most athletes wouldn't have a chance these days.
I think it's important that the citizens of those nations that dominate the rankings, the likes of the US etc, realise that they win because of the money pumped into the various sports, not because of some kind of natural superiority - I wonder sometimes what proportion of the watching public are aware of that, even if it seems so obvious really.
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I don't think it will really help Alain and Noel to have Mark Tilston publicly question their "hunger". If they didn't want to win, they wouldn't be there, they wouldn't have subjected themselves to 4 years of repetitive runs on glaciers, and fitness tests 4 times per year where you run till you collapse or puke...
Oh, and Andi Robertson was not quite correct: 16th is the JOINT best-ever finish by a British male in the Olympic SL. Nick Wilson (British/Canadian dual national, competed for Britain then managed Canada's alpine programme for a while) also placed 16th in SL in Sarajevo in 1984.
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You know it makes sense.
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Martin Bell, sometimes feelings just need to be aired and it's better (obviously) for Tilston to do this now rather than pre-Olympics... and sometimes you've simply got to kiss ar*e and sometimes you've simply got to kick a*se. He's dead right, some plain speaking is very much in order. Hell, our ski team could all do with a dose of real work, real life... I'd love to wake up most mornings in the mountains, have my ski and fitness activities worked out for me, go see the masseur and sports psychologist, get my ski tech to lay down a few tweaked experimental flex patterns, have my nutrition all worked out, travel the globe all winter and spend summer and early autumn in Austria, Chile and Argentina, have a personal ski coach, not have to make my own arrangements... I could go on. That is, after all, close to what messrs Baxter now have at their disposal. In your day it wasn't quite as easy and in Bartelski's day it was broken-down VW camper van and service your own skis.
There is absolutely no excuse for dreary, downbeat, "it's so tough" TV interviews. Diddums. GET OVER IT, GET REAL MATEY (although I sincerely pray that Benni does the right thing soon) and go for broke.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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You're a hard man, JohnHill, but we should all respect you for working down a coal mine at the age of 9 and having to carve your first skis out of reclaimed roof rafters.
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Poster: A snowHead
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David Goldsmith, pit props, surely.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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And was it retired pit ponies that provided the uphill transport to the pistes (not that they were pisted, of course)?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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David Goldsmith, luxury.
rob@rar.org.uk, dead pit ponies.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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"Diddums"? My arrière. Definitely the wrong description to tag onto a ski racer. Maybe you were joking.... but just in case, see t'other thread....
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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PG, you may be (I don't know) confusing physical courage with moral courage (meet with triumph and disaster and treat those two imposters just the same, that sort of thing). If sportspeople cannot maintain a display of insouciance in the face of defeat and winning, even if they're screaming inside and want to strangle/kiss someone, or kill themselves, they shouldn't be doing the job.
Winter sportspeople seem particularly good about this, in general. There was a great picture on the TV of a female Swiss boarder (I think) in gold position watching her last opponent crash out; she gave a shout of joy and then covered her mouth and looked very embarrassed. The skiers always manage to look dignified when their time is beaten; Kostelic looked genuinely pleased when Dorfmeister won one of her races (I daresay she actually wanted to dismember her).
I expect that Baxter's demeanour is just him, and that he'd be the same if he'd just won gold, but he might make a bit of an effort seeing as we're paying him.
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richmond, horses for courses. I, personally, prefer to se a bit of genuine emotion on a sportsmans face.
I used to captain a couple of Rugby sides (going waaaaaay back) and if a member of my team gave an "Oh well we tried...." speech and a smile after we lost a game, we'd have been having a little chat held at 90dB in front of his team mates about his attitude.
If you win you should be pleased, but have expected it. If you lose, then you should be sad and annoyed with yourself.
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| marc gledhill wrote: |
| If you win you should be pleased, but have expected it. If you lose, then you should be sad and annoyed with yourself. |
I agree 100%, but I think that you should present the same face to the world whether you win or lose.
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I think it's asking too much to demand sportsmen display their emotions 'as you require', if that's what you want you should get an actor.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| marc gledhill wrote: |
richmond, horses for courses. I, personally, prefer to se a bit of genuine emotion on a sportsmans face.
I used to captain a couple of Rugby sides (going waaaaaay back) and if a member of my team gave an "Oh well we tried...." speech and a smile after we lost a game, we'd have been having a little chat held at 90dB in front of his team mates about his attitude.
If you win you should be pleased, but have expected it. If you lose, then you should be sad and annoyed with yourself. |
Absolutely ... if you compete winning is everything . Show me a 'Good Loser' and I'll show you a loser.
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eEvans, depends what you mean by 'a good loser'. Anyone who shows that they care about losing is a loser. Of course you should care, but you shouldn't show it, win or lose. It's bad enough losing without showing that it matters to you, for God's sake. If you win, the least you can do is to be gracious enough to pretend that it doesn't matter.
What's with all the heart on your sleeve, show your feelings crapola?
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FAQ
I guess u wont be putting me in charge of your nuclear reactor now 
