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10 Young "Professionals" Try To Find Somewhere That Suits Us (St Anton?)

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Dave of the Marmottes wrote:
HammondR wrote:
@Sheddy, so, how are your requirements any different to 10 young people who re not "professionals" on a similar budget?


Fewer tattoos, more pretentious artisan G+T combinations
Laughing Laughing
I was wondering the same - Are they footballers, prostitutes/gigolos or massive Bodie & Doyle fans.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Whitegold wrote:
Verbier, Switzerland.

Put it on your credit card.

Don't waste your yoot in cr*p resorts, like Mayrhofen.

Ski the best.


I have the funds at the ready (on a host of credit cards) for a cracking week in St Anton but my (extremely immature) "friends" tell me it's a silly idea. Skiing is the reason credit cards were invented!

I'll keep working on them.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Dave of the Marmottes wrote:
HammondR wrote:
@Sheddy, so, how are your requirements any different to 10 young people who re not "professionals" on a similar budget?


Fewer tattoos, more pretentious artisan G+T combinations
Nailed it! I just thought it was a slight upgrade from "extremely poor students" and maybe less hated meaning my responses would increase.
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Nadenoodlee wrote:
I love St Anton but I have never been anywhere else that burns through cash like it. Obviously depends on your drinking habits but as a group of 20 somethings (yes it was a while ago- I haven’t recovered) we used to shoot through 100€+ each per day including lunch and that was in a catered chalet.

Still spent a poo-poo ton in Saalbach too but the hotel was all inclusive so nothing in comparison to St A.


The madness of it all is I can't convince them to up the budget to £1k but I know they'll be spending €€€ on a night out! I'd like the balance of cracking skiing with some ok Apres.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
take a look on snowtrex for accommodation/lift pass deals.

We have similar issues where our budget is set by the person who wants to spend the least.
Usually that person is the one who rolls in at 3am. Wakes everyone up & spews on the first run of the day.
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Solden would tick your skiing boxes and apres ski needs.
And is cheaper than St Anton (which should be left until everyone has a budget to enjoy it IMHO)
Cheaper accommodation could be found at Langenfeld if Solden proves too dear. Public buses run late into the evening along the Otztal allowing plenty of AS but you should check the times to see when the last bus is - it may be too early - I am not 24 wink ). In extremis, a taxi could be used.
And for those really on a budget there is a campsite just outside town (Solden) Twisted Evil
ski holidays
 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@Sheddy, just go to Livigno. Its the best value ski pass in the alps IMO. It's only a short hop as the crow flies from the Arlberg and its high altitude, with high altitude larch forest, so the snow is as good as anywhere. The apres is good (read tax free), and the accomodation is a really high standard. The transfer from bergamo is a pain, but scenic. You can also transfer from Innsbruck, or Zurich by train which speeds things up a bit. The food is incredible and really cheap - you can get great pizza on the mountain for less than 5 euro if you play your cards right.

Having organised a load of trips for 20 something 'young professionals' for the last load of years, it's unbeatable for value and quality of skiing. Believe me, I have tried.

We're paying 680 euro a head this year for flight with ski carriage, transfer, a massive 2 story apartment at the bottom of a lift in the centre of town, and 6 day lift pass. Its effectively skiing in the alps at Eastern European prices, with all the perks of being in italy.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
element wrote:
@Sheddy, just go to Livigno. Its the best value ski pass in the alps IMO. It's only a short hop as the crow flies from the Arlberg and its high altitude, with high altitude larch forest, so the snow is as good as anywhere. The apres is good (read tax free), and the accomodation is a really high standard. The transfer from bergamo is a pain, but scenic. You can also transfer from Innsbruck, or Zurich by train which speeds things up a bit. The food is incredible and really cheap - you can get great pizza on the mountain for less than 5 euro if you play your cards right.

Having organised a load of trips for 20 something 'young professionals' for the last load of years, it's unbeatable for value and quality of skiing. Believe me, I have tried.

We're paying 680 euro a head this year for flight with ski carriage, transfer, a massive 2 story apartment at the bottom of a lift in the centre of town, and 6 day lift pass. Its effectively skiing in the alps at Eastern European prices, with all the perks of being in italy.


Winner, Winner, Chicken Dinner
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@element, As the crow flies Livigno is only about 65km from St Anton but as far as I can tell this equates to a big difference in snowfall. I have spent some time trying to dig up snowfall statistics for the Sondrio area as looking at a topographic map, Bormeo, on the same lift pass as Livigno, looks like one of, if not the, best resorts in the Alps for off piste skiing. Easy access to huge north faces at just the good gradients for good skiing. See this thread:

http://www.snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=138656

Snowfall statistics for the Alps are somewhat hard to come by, presumably as no one is keen to advertise just how little they actually get, but you can find monthly precipitation data for most ski resort town centers (although even these values can seem questionable) which are a pretty good indicator of how much a snow a region is going to receive. Going off winter monthly precipitation figures, I think that Bormio and Livigno get about half as much snowfall as St Anton.

I’d be happy to be proved wrong and if anyone has any figures that either confirm or contradict what I have just said then I’d be keen to see them.
Sorry for the thread drift, I’m just keen to find out if Element’s statement is roughly correct as if it is then Livigno/Bormio is where I would be booking my next holiday
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Quote:

Winner, Winner, Chicken Dinner


May be cheap but doesn't get the pow that Arlberg does. But if youre after cheap, great food and duty free.... and like piste skiing its sure Livigno is fine.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Markymark29 wrote:
Quote:

Winner, Winner, Chicken Dinner


May be cheap but doesn't get the pow that Arlberg does. But if youre after cheap, great food and duty free.... and like piste skiing its sure Livigno is fine.


stupidy long transfer times though! longer if you fly to innsbruck & cant land!
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
@rambotion, if you look at Livigno on a topographic map of the alps, it sits pretty much on the main ridge, but slightly on the south side. I've been watching the snow reports for 10 years or so and Livigno tends to get snow from Northern storms, just not as much as resorts to the North. 40cm in the arlberg might be 10 or 20 in Livigno. However it doesn't seem to suffer from Foehn as often (though can't back this up with anything other than my own unscientific observation), and it picks up more from the southern storms of course. Its also absolutely baltic, which keeps the snow in good knick. Plus, a powder day is really 3 days, given that no one is after it. Hush hush. It was 5 of us and 2 Russians in the queue for first gondola last Jan in dumping snow with 20cm overnight in town. This article in Italian explains about how Livigno and Madesimo are different from most Italian resorts due to their location on the ridge (they both drain northwards, not southwards) https://www.sondriotoday.it/social/livigno-clima-speciale.html

I have come through bormio in sunshine to snow in Livigno on several occasions, with the snow starting on the foscagno pass.

Not as much snow as further north, but excellent quality and well groomed, so perfect for a mixed group. Of course it doesn't have the sheer size of some other areas, but it never feels like a compromise for us.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
element wrote:
@Sheddy, just go to Livigno. Its the best value ski pass in the alps IMO. It's only a short hop as the crow flies from the Arlberg and its high altitude, with high altitude larch forest, so the snow is as good as anywhere. The apres is good (read tax free), and the accomodation is a really high standard. The transfer from bergamo is a pain, but scenic. You can also transfer from Innsbruck, or Zurich by train which speeds things up a bit. The food is incredible and really cheap - you can get great pizza on the mountain for less than 5 euro if you play your cards right.

Having organised a load of trips for 20 something 'young professionals' for the last load of years, it's unbeatable for value and quality of skiing. Believe me, I have tried.

We're paying 680 euro a head this year for flight with ski carriage, transfer, a massive 2 story apartment at the bottom of a lift in the centre of town, and 6 day lift pass. Its effectively skiing in the alps at Eastern European prices, with all the perks of being in italy.


That would sell it for me!!
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
My knowledge of Livigno is that it is intermediate orientated. With your ex-seasonairre mates coming there could be frustration.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/ski/resort-guides/Ski-Livigno-resort-guide/

Saalbach seems to be the place to be. Great skiing and fabulous apres. If you look at the ongoing thread on Trip Reprts i am sure Tatmanstours will send you his info sheet.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
It's a wonder how they manage to stay open. Almost as flat as Niseko @Markymark29


http://youtube.com/v/bKJy0nIMdj4


Apres (even saw some women in there)

http://youtube.com/v/Q03fhTaOVH0
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@Mike Pow, ??
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@Markymark29, Mike is trying to suggest that it is ridiculous to query the amount of snowfall the region receives as there clearly are some good days. Livigno gets about 45mm of precipitation a month in the winter. For comparison, Val d'Isere which is at a similar altitude gets about 110mm according to the best figures I can find. Sure, nowhere in Europe (or anywhere) is guaranteed good conditions but if you're booking in advance and think you might like some off piste you're probably then it might be sensible to give Livigno a miss.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
hawkesbaynz wrote:
My knowledge of Livigno is that it is intermediate orientated. With your ex-seasonairre mates coming there could be frustration.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/ski/resort-guides/Ski-Livigno-resort-guide/

Saalbach seems to be the place to be. Great skiing and fabulous apres. If you look at the ongoing thread on Trip Reprts i am sure Tatmanstours will send you his info sheet.


Saalbach would be my first reccomdation based on the OP, but Livigno looks and sounds great! Looks like really easy access to a bunch of terrain on the piste map.

In my experience anywhere labelled intermediate/family heaven is usually the best sort of place to be for offpiste, if you prefer it untracked. Can't imagine ex-seasonaires caring about a lack of black pistes either.
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Just goto Andorra,Bulgaria or Romania


All cheap ....

The last two there are plenty of hot young hookers you can easily afford within your nightly budget.


Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Fri 19-10-18 7:31; edited 1 time in total
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Quote:

In my experience anywhere labelled intermediate/family heaven is usually the best sort of place to be for offpiste, if you prefer it untracked. Can't imagine ex-seasonaires caring about a lack of black pistes either.


Exactly this! The clip below was 3 days after a snowfall, just skipping off the side of the piste. It's perfect for an intermediate powder hack like me, and as you can see in the background there's plenty to explore if you know what you're doing. I honestly think it can't be beaten for value in the alps.


http://youtube.com/v/2vgle43QsMA

Best of luck with wherever you end up.
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Markymark29 wrote:
@Mike Pow, ??


In reply to your post

Quote:
... and like piste skiing its sure Livigno is fine.


It has a bit more to offer.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
rambotion wrote:
Snowfall statistics for the Alps are somewhat hard to come by, presumably as no one is keen to advertise just how little they actually get


Why is it that Western US gets almost twice as much snow as the Alps? Global warming?
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
@südtirolisttirol, it doesn't. That's a ridiculous generalisation - how big is the western US?! Some places there are remarkably dry too - Colorado is hardly renowned for high snowfall. Likewise there are parts of the Alps that get double the snow of other areas. Gulf stream probably plays a part though.
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Sheddy wrote:
An updated budget:
Price PP (£)
Accomodation 400
Flights 80
Transfer 70
Ski Hire 100
Ski Pass 200

Total 850

+ Speanding Money

Is this achievable?


In my experience, and that's when the exchange rate was more favourable, is NO - the ski hire was ridiculous and left pass is expensive - train transfer is cheap enough and I doubt you'll get accommodation for 400 either. If you are after Austria, Sallbach will be a better option. Italy Sauze will defo fit the bill
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@Gaz_H, Plenty accom 50€ pppn walking distance from town (eg Haus Elizabeth....up the hill) , it's the flights and transfers that are out imo. You're right ski hire is expensive but its all top class gear. The lift pass is good value when you look what you get to go at, and the amount of investment is unprecedented, compare it with French resorts and it's decent value imv - its a long walk without a lift pass.

What they decide to spend on partying is up to the "professionals" but it CAN be done on a budget, but for the sake of the extra €'s they may as well do it right - a holiday with 8/10 mates in your mid 20's has to be done properly surely.....you're a long time pushing up daisies as the saying goes......Carpe Diem
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Markymark29 wrote:
You're right ski hire is expensive but its all top class gear.


Two or more times the price of a big French resort? That suggests that the French are hiring out 2m40 straight skis still...

"The lift pass is good value when you look what you get to go at"

Yes but... you can't actually ski all of it, not in six days.


Great resort, just not the place for OP and his budget. Unless he is happy to go the second week of January and is prepared to wait until the last minute (48 hours in advance) before booking - which just isn't going to work for his party.
ski holidays
 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
always29 wrote:
Have a look at https://www.sunweb.co.uk/ski/search?City[0]=225&Region[0]=52279&Country[0]=2&Participants[0][0]=1988-03-20&Participants[0][1]=1988-03-20&sort=Popularity&Allocation=2&nResults=10 they had some bigger apartments when I looked before our group size changed - the prices include a lift pass.


Just checked against the Danish site - you guys have have like half Price compared to the Danish site ! Anyway - been going to Ischgl 19 years in a row with the mates, and i Recommend bigtime (if you dont mind dealing with druken scandis!). Cheap it is not wink
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
The problem here seems also the level of resort required. If these are advanced or expert skiers, places like Livigno and Solden are a bit pedestrian on piste, and you are at the mercy of weather to access the off piste. Ishgl and St Anton have great piste skiing as well as proper off. I rate Ishgl simply as more people like catvi g onnpiste there, so on powder days you can access amazing untracked stuff really easily even mid morning. St A seems to be full of pow hounds. Ishgl apres is as mental or calm as you want it to be.

But neither are cheap.

Spend a bit more. I went on a lads holiday to Solden for my 40th. Great fun, dull skiing.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Quote:

If these are advanced or expert skiers

They are described as ranging from those who have done a few weeks to some who have done a couple of seasons. Last season they went to an essentially intermediates' resort in April and thought it was great.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
tatmanstours wrote:
Quote:

If these are advanced or expert skiers

They are described as ranging from those who have done a few weeks to some who have done a couple of seasons. Last season they went to an essentially intermediates' resort in April and thought it was great.


Myself and the other advanced are just happy to be skiing with a load of mates. We had the best 5 days (weatherwise) of the season in La Clusaz which is why we enjoyed it so much.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
rambotion wrote:
@element, As the crow flies Livigno is only about 65km from St Anton but as far as I can tell this equates to a big difference in snowfall. I have spent some time trying to dig up snowfall statistics for the Sondrio area as looking at a topographic map, Bormeo, on the same lift pass as Livigno, looks like one of, if not the, best resorts in the Alps for off piste skiing. Easy access to huge north faces at just the good gradients for good skiing. See this thread:

http://www.snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=138656

Snowfall statistics for the Alps are somewhat hard to come by, presumably as no one is keen to advertise just how little they actually get, but you can find monthly precipitation data for most ski resort town centers (although even these values can seem questionable) which are a pretty good indicator of how much a snow a region is going to receive. Going off winter monthly precipitation figures, I think that Bormio and Livigno get about half as much snowfall as St Anton.

I’d be happy to be proved wrong and if anyone has any figures that either confirm or contradict what I have just said then I’d be keen to see them.
Sorry for the thread drift, I’m just keen to find out if Element’s statement is roughly correct as if it is then Livigno/Bormio is where I would be booking my next holiday


Average total annual snowfall:

* Livigno = 300cm.
* St Anton = 450cm.
* Lech = 700cm.
* Zurs = 1000cm.
* Warth = 1050cm.

Livigno is not snowy.

It is a cheapo concrete station miles from anywhere.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Christ St Anton doesn't get much either
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@Mike Pow, that's village level mind (1310m). But yeah, over the Pass on the VBG side definitely gets more.
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Whitegold wrote:
rambotion wrote:
@element, As the crow flies Livigno is only about 65km from St Anton but as far as I can tell this equates to a big difference in snowfall. I have spent some time trying to dig up snowfall statistics for the Sondrio area as looking at a topographic map, Bormeo, on the same lift pass as Livigno, looks like one of, if not the, best resorts in the Alps for off piste skiing. Easy access to huge north faces at just the good gradients for good skiing. See this thread:

http://www.snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=138656

Snowfall statistics for the Alps are somewhat hard to come by, presumably as no one is keen to advertise just how little they actually get, but you can find monthly precipitation data for most ski resort town centers (although even these values can seem questionable) which are a pretty good indicator of how much a snow a region is going to receive. Going off winter monthly precipitation figures, I think that Bormio and Livigno get about half as much snowfall as St Anton.

I’d be happy to be proved wrong and if anyone has any figures that either confirm or contradict what I have just said then I’d be keen to see them.
Sorry for the thread drift, I’m just keen to find out if Element’s statement is roughly correct as if it is then Livigno/Bormio is where I would be booking my next holiday


Average total annual snowfall:

* Livigno = 300cm.
* St Anton = 450cm.
* Lech = 700cm.
* Zurs = 1000cm.
* Warth = 1050cm.

Livigno is not snowy.

It is a cheapo concrete station miles from anywhere.


Wow St Anton doesn’t get much does it? Would that figure be comparable to other well known domains like Saalbach, Zillertal, Skiwelt and Ischgl?
I now understand why Europe has invested in so much snowmaking infrastructure compared to Japan and North America.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
@sbooker, as above you're not comparing like with like re. St Anton.

That's 4.5m in the village at 1310m. Lech is about 200m higher, and Zürs 200m higher again. All the stats for North America are for mid-mountain, not resort level (ie, Mt Baker, topping the NA charts with 16m a season at mid mountain, is only ~2-3m more a season than Lech at the same point on the mountain).

Squaw, Jackson, etc with ~11/12m a year at mid-mountain = about the same as Lech, which like St Anton also reports the amount in the village, just the village is higher and more exposed.

Japan is a different league for snow at the base. But it gets much warmer and melts much quicker in the spring. Amazing in those 2-3 months though!

St Anton is in the 'snow shadow' for many of the westerly storms that Lech gets (though it gets a similar amount of snow from the North). But the skiing is on the mountains between the two, so as you'd imagine, the actual slopes also get an amount somewhere between the two.

My perspective is that St Anton does get more snow in the village than Zillertal, SkiWelt and Ischgl, and more on the mountain. Saalbach can benefit from storms from different directions so hard to compare; certainly it can get VERY intense snowfall too, but I'm pretty sure the average is still less than the Arlberg.

Obertauen/Dachstein probably fairly comparable though.


Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Wed 24-10-18 7:51; edited 1 time in total
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@clarky999,
Thanks for that. I understand now.
So there’s a chance we could get lucky with a powder day after all. Very Happy
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@sbooker, Some Austrian resorts of relatively low to medium altitude advertise the fact that their slopes are grassy, rather than rocky, and can be made available for skiing with very little snow depth. Snowmaking makes much sense and has great enhanced snow reliability on lower slopes at the beginning and end of the season.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Powder skiing in the European Alps is very overrated.

Most EU resorts get tiny snowfall, the snow is often wet or damp, and hordes of locals and bums track it out in minutes.

* European powder = shallow and wet (near to Med sea).
* Utah / Wyoming / Colorado powder = deep and dry (inland).
* North Japan powder = deepest and dry (Siberia winds).
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clarky999 wrote:
@sbookerJapan is a different league for snow at the base. But it gets much warmer and melts much quicker in the spring. Amazing in those 2-3 months though!...


On Honshu maybe.

Resorts on Hokkaido like Niseko Hirafu and Kiroro open on or around 23 November each winter and close the first week in May. That's 5 1/2 months of skiing on non-glaciated terrain.

9 times out of 10 there will be top to bottom skiing both at the start and end of the season for both resorts.

Not bad for all natural snow at 300masl (Niseko Hirafu) and 580masl (Kiroro).
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Nadenoodlee wrote:
I love St Anton but I have never been anywhere else that burns through cash like it. Obviously depends on your drinking habits but as a group of 20 somethings (yes it was a while ago- I haven’t recovered) we used to shoot through 100€+ each per day including lunch and that was in a catered chalet.

Still spent a poo-poo ton in Saalbach too but the hotel was all inclusive so nothing in comparison to St A.


Agree with this 100%.

We stayed in St Anton the last two years (week in March) in a central B&B only hotel. It's a really great resort for everything but as a small group of immature 40 something year olds we easily spent €150-€200 a day each.. although that did include lunch and dinner too.

I'm sure you'd have a great time and doubt you would regret it but it's not an easy place to go and fully enjoy yourself on a budget. We're going somewhere else this year.
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