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Mountaineering Survival equipment

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Following up the Haute route disaster thread for those who leave the resorts and get out into the backcountry -
What survival equipment do you use?
What have you tried that doesn't work well?

Recently went through my outdoor stuff and realised the survival bag that I have but never had to use probably needs replacing as it is well over 10 years old. Plus I wanted something else breathable but not too heavy.

Recently ordered a lightweight Bivy Bag (110g)
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bramble-Emergency-Bivvy-Bag-Insulation/dp/B06XNJ8D39?tag=amz07b-21

and a breathable Bivy Bag (approx 340g)
https://www.alpkit.com/products/hunka


... was also thinking about a hand crank USB charger for phone & GPS -can anyone recommended a good one?
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Emergency-Portable-Charger-Electric-Generator/dp/B078B69CBF/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_147_t_1?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=TVF5VADWS0Z2N1ZEMPW0&tag=amz07b-21
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
can't tell what the bivy bag is - but blizzard bags are best but the coats or capes are better because you can move. Other companies market the same under different labels.

https://www.blizzardsurvival.com/product-category/jackets/?v=f9308c5d0596

any situation with an immobile casualty needs some insulation from the ground.

and a bothy bag

https://www.terra-nova.co.uk/tarps-bivis-bothies/all-bothies-bothy-bags/

The usb charger is a toy.

Satphones, backup phones, power banks. Solar chargers in remote areas. You really need a means of communication. Your capability is massively outstripped by professional rescuers and what they can carry.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Quote:

What survival equipment do you use?

None, I am glad to say but like you I have carried a big poly bag around for years (yellow Karimor) along with emergeny food and clothing. The goretex bag sounds like a big improvement, but it is an extra 0.2kg which you will hopefully never need
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emergency shelters figure heavily in the psyche of British guides and leaders following the Cairngorm Disaster in 1971.

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/12134893.journey-to-death-mountain-thirty-years-ago-six-children-left-for-an-adventure-weekend-in-the-cairngorms-only-one-came-back/

It was a seminal event that shaped UK outdoor leadership like Lyme Bay or the Glenridding Beck incidents.

When I moved to alps you'd rarely see them on sale, they're more common now. One of the most useful bits of gear you can carry both for its primary role and the other uses you can put it to. Most improvised methods for moving casualties are a waste of time, an emergency shelter makes a good improvised stretcher or drag.

I had a guy on a recent first aid course who'd had one made out of parachute material (or papapente). very light, excellent bit of gear that I'd like myself
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
@johnE,
That's the thing I've carried around a 110g plastic bag for decades and never used it but have come close to needing it on a few occasions. At least I can use the heavier bivy bag for summer camping too though.

@ise,
Thanks the blizzard jackets look really good there was one occasion when I could have used one of those. Will probably order the lighter one (230g) as the others are 450g+.

Sometimes I'll do easy tours alone so some sort of beacon might be worth it ….
https://www.outdoorgearlab.com/topics/camping-and-hiking/best-personal-locator-beacon
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Personally, using a beacon or radio* isn't my choice. A satphone is better for dealing with the non-emergency emergencies like logistics etc

*'moot, you can't get a radio without a license
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
ise wrote:
emergency shelters figure heavily in the psyche of British guides and leaders following the Cairngorm Disaster in 1971.

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/12134893.journey-to-death-mountain-thirty-years-ago-six-children-left-for-an-adventure-weekend-in-the-cairngorms-only-one-came-back/

It was a seminal event that shaped UK outdoor leadership like Lyme Bay or the Glenridding Beck incidents.



Wow - hadn't previously heard of this so thanks. Some heroic assumptions on timing and pacing made there. Maybe kids were considered tougher and faster those days but still....
Helps explain why things like hillwalking clubs which my parents had participated in as young teachers had vanished by the tiem I was at secondary school.

OT always felt a bit sorry for the teacher jailed as a result of Glenridding Beck incident. While undoubtably there was poor decision making it always seemed to me that the heart of his manslaughter conviction was his generosity in allowing a colleague to bring her underage (and not at the school) son along.


Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Fri 5-10-18 15:12; edited 1 time in total
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
ise wrote:
Personally, using a beacon or radio* isn't my choice. A satphone is better for dealing with the non-emergency emergencies like logistics etc

*'moot, you can't get a radio without a license



Can understand why the profi's use them but probably not feasible for a weekend-warrior-ski-tourer like me. How much do they cost to buy and run?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Not as much as you think 😀

PAYG and if you've a good contract SIM it will already work

https://www.globaltelesat.co.uk/thuraya-xt-lite-satellite-phone


Disclosure, we've a pro deal with Global Telesat
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 Ski the Net with snowHeads
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Dave of the Marmottes wrote:
ise wrote:
emergency shelters figure heavily in the psyche of British guides and leaders following the Cairngorm Disaster in 1971.

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/12134893.journey-to-death-mountain-thirty-years-ago-six-children-left-for-an-adventure-weekend-in-the-cairngorms-only-one-came-back/

It was a seminal event that shaped UK outdoor leadership like Lyme Bay or the Glenridding Beck incidents.



Wow - hadn't previously heard of this so thanks. Some heroic assumptions on timing and pacing made there. Maybe kids were considered tougher and faster those days but still....
Helps explain why things like hillwalking clubs which my parents had participated in as young teachers had vanished by the tiem I was at secondary school.


Maybe not. Only young teachers generally want to lead trips. People with families probably don't.

The days of the PE teacher taking an illequpped group up Snowdon in the rain are over now - probably a good thing.

The three incidents I mentioned are examples of how reflective practice works. The Cairngorm disaster shaped mountain leaders training, the Lyme Bay led to AALA and Glenridding showed it had teeth

I'm sat in Moscow airport trying to get to Ulan Bator. I'm with the project manager from the Petzl Foundation who fund safety training in various countries and we were just talking about their projects in this context.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Thanks for the Cairngorm link - before my time but interesting. That type of incident was still happening above and below ground decades later.
The helicopter stuff sounds very hairy: zero viz, high winds, close to the ground, and guiding the machine by the winch cable! They used to be able to do pretty much anything if "life was at stake", but it's quite rightly not calculated that way any more.

Years ago I spent time in Alaska an hour's flight from anyone, with no possible call out other than paying a float plane pilot to fly out each week. We understood the risk. Once sat phones became available we hired one. Now they're common. A beacon would be less useful for that.

Quote:
moot, you can't get a radio without a license

I know what you mean, but a radio is likely to be of little use to for requesting rescue unless you're expecting to be within range of something to communicate with: a repeater or a heli etc. Or do Alpine huts have VHF?
You can buy any unprogrammed radio very cheaply, and even legally program it for multiple continents' public frequencies. I do that because then I have one radio which works anywhere. It would be illegal to transmit on the wrong frequencies, sure.

In caving the protocol is that as soon as something goes wrong, you start rationing your light. That's better than carrying chargers around.

I still have the poly bag which I carry sometimes, although I like the look of those higher technology approaches.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
@ise,

The cairngorn disaster is an interesting read. I'm struggling to understand why they recommended that the shelter used by Beattie's group be demolished afterwards?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cairngorm_Plateau_Disaster

The Mount Hood (Oregon, USA) school trip in 1986 was another school mountaineering disaster ...
http://www.usdeadlyevents.com/1986-may-14-15-blizzard-oregon-episcopal-school-mt-climbing-group-mt-hood-or-9/

.... interesting that the man offically leading the tour (Tom Goman) had been up Mount Hood 18 times and had turned back twice before but decided to press on this time even in extremely bad weather conditions, maybe it was the pressure of not wanting to fail in front of his students that affected his decision.

http://publications.americanalpineclub.org/articles/13198706500/Improper-Decision-Failure-to-Turn-Back-Fatigue-Exposure-Hypothermia-Inadequate-Equipment-Weather-Failure-to-Follow-Route-Oregon-Mount-Hood


Last edited by And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports. on Fri 5-10-18 13:56; edited 3 times in total
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
philwig wrote:


Quote:
moot, you can't get a radio without a license

I know what you mean, but a radio is likely to be of little use to for requesting rescue unless you're expecting to be within range of something to communicate with: a repeater or a heli etc. Or do Alpine huts have VHF?
You can buy any unprogrammed radio very cheaply, and even legally program it for multiple continents' public frequencies. I do that because then I have one radio which works anywhere. It would be illegal to transmit on the wrong frequencies, sure.

In caving the protocol is that as soon as something goes wrong, you start rationing your light. That's better than carrying chargers around.

I still have the poly bag which I carry sometimes, although I like the look of those higher technology approaches.


There's an alpine radio network that we use that covers most of the Alps and hooks us into the SAR. That's why you need a licence
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
So my emergency kit contains:

# a wind up light which has a connection to charge my mobile phone
# several whistles and compasses
# emergency poncho and reflective blanket (could be used as ground cover)
# lots of straps and compression straps (for making of a tourniquet), usually will have ski poles which could be used in the event with the straps to stabalise a break or knee damage.
# a cheap radio
# a bandage
# a compass
# some heat packs for gloves
# a sewing kit
# spare gloves, hats, goggles, lightweight clothing layers

I am considering adding for more extensive tours

# a climbing rope (I have some but again weight and inconvenience usually deters me)
# a bivvy bag (I have one in the attic but do not take it as extra weight)

Generally though, I will also be packing a pair of skis and boots, and so anything heavy in addition is usually discarded.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Once it goes tits up, whatever can go wrong usually will go wrong.
Back up your back ups.
Expect the unexpected.
Whatever you forgot to pack, you'll need. Whatever you packed will fail on you (especially batteries, cold-snapping bits of plastic on wind up chargers, light bulbs in torches, headstraps on goggles...), especially if it's your back up spare.
Whatever can be dropped, broken, blow away in the wind, roll away down the hill, fall down the hole/crevasse - will do.
Check everything works and is fully charged or brand new before you need to use it.
Emergency necessity is the mother of bodging up something inventive.
Zip ties and silicon sealant mended the space station. (Personally I'd take kilt pins, duck or insulation tape, climbing cord and small carabiners too.)
And then, of course, don't actually take anything because you're meant to be travelling oh so light... Confused
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Grizzler wrote:
And then, of course, don't actually take anything because you're meant to be travelling oh so light... Confused


Yes even one of those wind-up radios is around 400g.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/FORNORM-Emergency-2000mAh-Charger-Household-Green/dp/B07D1LVSZY/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_sims?ie=UTF8&tag=amz07b-21

A good bivy bag/jacket is 230g plus. My 20000 mAh battery pack is around 500g. GPS is around 260g. Good solar panel approx 500g. Where do you draw the line?


Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Fri 5-10-18 13:50; edited 1 time in total
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
As I said, you can easily "get a radio" without a license which you can program to work on most frequencies.
You can easily use it illegally, but buying and programming a radio is not illegal.

ise wrote:
... There's an alpine radio network that we use that covers most of the Alps and hooks us into the SAR. That's why you need a licence
I'll likely already have those frequencies programmed. I wasn't aware there'd be good coverage though.

That is interesting. Other threads here detail incidents which could have been prevented by a radio which costs about $20.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
I've given up taking chargers on tour. Instead, I use equipment that'll run on AAs or AAAs and take along a few spare Energizer Ultimate Lithiums. These are very light, take up little space and work at extreme temperatures.

The only exception with a proprietary battery is my phone. I use an old Nokia C2-01 candy-bar which will last a week on standby - but I turn it off until required. It'll also do basic web browsing, which is handy for weather forecasts.

For navigation I use a Garmin Foretrex 401. This has no maps but contains pre-prepaired waypoints which I also print out on a paper map. Most of the others in the party have similar devices but they remain off until required. I usually circulate a list of waypoints before the trip. Everybody has a conventional paper map and compass.

This year I added a Highgear Altis watch (I had to really!) that will be my backup altimeter.

One person in the group carries his group bothy bag. It'll be a squeeze to get us all in but it's better than nothing.

We routinely take axes and crampons now but ropes, harnesses and hardware depends on terrain.
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A Personal Locator Beacon (PLB), one off purchase, you must register it under your name, but no license / monthly fees. Cost around £200, and battery last at least 6 years (but then needs to be sent in for replacement £75).

As mentioned on the recent thread about these devices. They are the last resort option (risk of death), not for if you get a bit lost, wet or cold.

I’ve had a McMurdo Fast Find Ranger for 5 years. It goes in my pack, and fortunately has never been used in anger.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Tube of superglue. Apparently the best thing to seal up minor wounds to prevent further infection (as told to me by Graham Bell).
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You'll need to Register first of course.
Garmin GPS and VHF radio tuned to the rescue helicopter.......
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
ansta1 wrote:
Tube of superglue. Apparently the best thing to seal up minor wounds

And some tampons to mop up the blood or start a fire.
And a plastic large freezer bag to seal up other wounds or cover from infection.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Unless you have done a lot of first aid, and can decide what to put in a home made kit, I suggest buying one of the excellent LifeSystems kits.
Go on a 2 day first aid and learn how to use your first aid kit.

Foil blankets are rubbish on many levels, they have no insulation properties, they make the casualty sweat and then get cold, very quickly - with the exception of Blizzard Survival kit. Lots of UK Uni research in to the uselessness of single sheet foil blankets.

A cheap gps that is set up for the country you are in, and gives an easy to ready set of co-ordinates - you don't need all singing dancing topo maps - especially if you can't read a map. If you are in a high stress accident all you need is the ability to give a grid reference to give to the emergency services on the end of the phone.

Bothy bag is far better than a foil bag, they are breathable and warm up very quickly and can be multi purposed to make sturdy stretcher with your hiking/skis/ski poles (you can't do that with a foil bivy bag as they simply rip.
head torch, spare batteries for it and the gps and a USB charger for your phone.
A couple of Cylume sticks.1 very bright 4hr and perhaps a 10hr one.

A square of foam sleeping mat, you don't need a whole mat, just cut a square to sit on, can also be used with gaffer/sniper-tape to make splints.

If you are talking about cold environment kit, then anything that can't be used wearing thin liners glovers, or big gloves, is a waste of space and weight.

Storm Whistle and know what the whistle calls are for summoning help.

And as the question was about back country kit, and since no one has said it - Avalanche transceiver, metal bladed shovel, 2.6m probe - Also have had some coaching in fast search technique both on skis and foot and strategic shovelling for companion rescue.

The same basics stuff would be in a day pack or a multi day pack.
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I have a garmin (or in my case, Delorme, since mine is old) inreach. IMO It is vastly better than a satphone as it has weeks of battery life, can be remotely pinged to get your location, and uploads it’s track in real time. This means that even if it loses signal or you're unconscious, if someone knows you’re missing, you (or your body) can be found. It also provides weather reports for your current location, and 2-way text messaging. All for about 200g.

If everything goes pear shaped, I can press the big red button vs firing up a satphone and trying to hold satellite lock for long enough to explain the situation.
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ansta1 wrote:
Tube of superglue. Apparently the best thing to seal up minor wounds to prevent further infection (as told to me by Graham Bell).


Dreadful. Don't do that. Terrible advice.
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@PowderAdict, I’m struggling on the PLB question. And I don’t think any of my guides chums have one...

Seems like and edge solution to me.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
PLB links, many are american and/or for nautical use.

https://www.outsidepursuits.com/best-personal-locator-beacon/

https://www.adventure-journal.com/2017/01/5-things-know-personal-locator-beacons/


http://youtube.com/v/4CkTyJKsQNM

https://www.protegear.de/english/


This piece of equipment allows you to activate the communications on a weekly basis although it isn't a navigation device.
https://www.protegear.de/english/protegear-a-live-new/
https://www.protegear.de/produkte-tarife/protegear-a-live-neu/#cc-m-product-11236423793
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So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
@under a new name, If I was a professional guide I would have a more sophisticated device, such as a sat phone or one of the other two way devices, as monthly subscription fees would be worthwhile. But as a recreational user, often going out with a guide, a simple cheap subscription free device which is there as the ultimate back stop if everything hits the fan, suits my risk/cost profile.

@DB, My PLB the Ranger is definitely designed for land use as it is more robust than the nautical ones, but it doesn’t float by default (a case can be added). https://www.mcmurdogroup.com/mcmurdo-products/mcmurdo-fastfind-ranger/
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Couple of times I've been with guides and there have been issues* they've brought out radios and got in contact that way, like wise I seem to recall with a hut we were going to they radioed the hut.

Although I do a fair bit of touring, and some on my own I'm very much a fair weather tourer and do not go out if weather is at all questionable, and average height of cols / summits is only 2,800.

Majority of areas do have adequate mobile coverage and one of the most important bits of "gear" is the direct line into the PGHM Heli rescue in Briancon, along with an app that gives me a fast no no nonsense GPS location, plus back up on watch.

If I'm a tad unsure of navigation I run Memory Map (offline) on my phone which is in an OtterBox so battery and being an android is more than adequate for a day.

Other stuff in my back pack is first aid kit, compression straps, cable ties, wire, and tape on ski poles, along with at least one spare puffa jacket should someone need it. Clothing and gear is obviously determined by the conditions.

When I do bigger tours hut to hut at altitude then invariably I'm with a guide and I'm carrying more clothing for all eventualities along with hardware and hope that he's carrying the right equipment.

Have to say though will get a light weight bivi bag.

Thought often goes through my mind of "what if" and I usually have a good idea should something happen but like I say we tend to do easy non complicated stuff but enough of a challenge for most.

FWIW there's usually far more chance of accidents in the summer in the mountains, especially on MTB's and if doing long hikes have to be really prepared for fast changes in the weather and or be really aware of the weather prospects.

And should add that post my attack by killer bees in the summer in Madagascar I now have some seriously strong anti histamines.

*when I did my ACL and had to get helied off
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@Weathercam,
Quote:
I run Memory Map (offline) on my phone


A bit off topic, but it's worth checking out Alpine Quest as an excellent navigator app, with access to loads of map sources which can captured for off-line usage. Comes in a free (lite) version but well worth paying ~£5 for the fully featured version.

I use Memory Map on the PC, and AQ is compatible with the old memory map ordnance survey (2004) *.qct files so you can have the whole OS on the phone (for those of us in the UK that is Madeye-Smiley )
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@ise, superglue was used by the Americans in Vietnam as an emergency suture. You can now get medical grade stuff (expensive) and even veterinary stuff (much cheaper):

https://www.realfirstaid.co.uk/superglue/

That said, a tube of superglue is possibly the last thing I’d want in my pack.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
altis wrote:
@ise, superglue was used by the Americans in Vietnam as an emergency suture. You can now get medical grade stuff (expensive) and even veterinary stuff (much cheaper):

https://www.realfirstaid.co.uk/superglue/

That said, a tube of superglue is possibly the last thing I’d want in my pack.


Yes, I know that's what you all think. It's a really bad thing to do in outdoor first aid. You're not able to clean the wound so all you're doing is sealing the infection in and giving the real care a bigger job to do.

Using glue is an advanced technique that you're not trained in. Don't do it.

And, FWIW don't mess around with tourniquets unless you know what you're doing either.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
ise wrote:
... blizzard bags are best but the coats or capes are better because you can move. ..

Prompted by this I just checked those out and they do appear significantly more sophisticated than the Amazon jobbies, which appear to be just plastic with a metallic coating.
The Blizzard bags have some structure to it and they're available in two or three layer versions, albeit for more money.
My use isn't snowboarding, and my contingency doesn't involve people who can move, hence the bags are going to be simpler than the capes etc.
Thanks for the tip. Order placed.

Radios: a bit of research lead me to the various radio networks in the Alps - good to know.
I can see how they monetise that, but at least some of the frequency details are publicly available. Knowing my radio can both listen (legally) and transmit (illegally) is handy.
The frequencies look to be the same as the Canadian standard mountain frequencies/ settings.

First aid kits... The bags they come in can be quite useful, but all the ones I've seen have weird stuff in them which doesn't seem very useful to me. I know, I'll never make a boy scout.
DF118 (Dihydrocodeine) or equivalent would be quite high on my list. Do Alpine guides carry that?
AEDs are down to about 1Kg these days...

Other ideas:
  • In BC you'd want a foldable saw if you're planning on spending the night
  • Wheelbarrow or sledge to lug all this stuff around
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About the only decent use of first aid superglue by untrained people is for climbers, for sticking down flappers. Little risk of infection on a clean ripped skin flap if you give it a run over with a surgical wipe. I've done it many times.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
philwig wrote:
ise wrote:
... blizzard bags are best but the coats or capes are better because you can move. ..

Prompted by this I just checked those out and they do appear significantly more sophisticated than the Amazon jobbies, which appear to be just plastic with a metallic coating.
The Blizzard bags have some structure to it and they're available in two or three layer versions, albeit for more money.
My use isn't snowboarding, and my contingency doesn't involve people who can move, hence the bags are going to be simpler than the capes etc.
Thanks for the tip. Order placed.

Radios: a bit of research lead me to the various radio networks in the Alps - good to know.
I can see how they monetise that, but at least some of the frequency details are publicly available. Knowing my radio can both listen (legally) and transmit (illegally) is handy.
The frequencies look to be the same as the Canadian standard mountain frequencies/ settings.

First aid kits... The bags they come in can be quite useful, but all the ones I've seen have weird stuff in them which doesn't seem very useful to me. I know, I'll never make a boy scout.
DF118 (Dihydrocodeine) or equivalent would be quite high on my list. Do Alpine guides carry that?
AEDs are down to about 1Kg these days...

Other ideas:
  • In BC you'd want a foldable saw if you're planning on spending the night
  • Wheelbarrow or sledge to lug all this stuff around


We train, talk and dialogue with PGHM & others, my understanding is they'll throw the book at unlicensed radio users. I'm at some events around the international Congress in alpine rescue next week in Chamonix, I'll ask but I'm sure I already know the answers

Medical kits in the UK are based around HSE protocols which won't contain drugs. I would expect someone trained in outdoor first aid to carry ibuprofen, paracetamol and aspirin. That's really enough. Professionals with extra training are going to carry more in some locations but that's not really the Alps. It's first aid, you're supposed to be getting some help - fast.

Blizzard bags are super, the capes are best because the primary use is for treatment of hypothethermia or where it develops from other conditions. It's hard to get someone into a bag with outdoor gear on and/or some injury.

I understand there's a great outdoor first aid course running in Chamonix sometime soon Very Happy
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 You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
In some (many, most?) jurisdictions, unlicensed operators are permitted to use transmitting equipment to summon help in an emergency.

For example, in UK waters anyone can call the coastguard on VHF if their vessel is in distress.

Obviously, general chit chat is not permitted.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
under a new name wrote:
@PowderAdict, I’m struggling on the PLB question. And I don’t think any of my guides chums have one...

Seems like and edge solution to me.


I use my sailing PLB. McMurdo Fast Find. It doesn't weigh much, and will work when other means fail, sending the gps coords.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
If super glue is a no-go can I just use duct tape instead? wink

Going back to the bivy bags - most are not breathable, wouldn't this cause problems for sweaty ski tourers? As soon as you wait while ski touring the cold gets you really fast if you are sweated up.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
DB wrote:
If super glue is a no-go can I just use duct tape instead? wink

Going back to the bivy bags - most are not breathable, wouldn't this cause problems for sweaty ski tourers? As soon as you wait while ski touring the cold gets you really fast if you are sweated up.


Outdoor First is :

keep them breathing
stop them bleeding
keep them warm

Or, it's everything you can carry and everything you can remember (tm).

Duct Tape is quite handy for fixing a dressing in place providing there's a sterile barrier.

Sweating is an issue when you're exposed to the outside air and wind which isn't the case when you're in a blizzard bag. If you have someone with hypothermia, they're probably not sweating too much at that point.
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 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
ise wrote:
Sweating is an issue when you're exposed to the outside air and wind which isn't the case when you're in a blizzard bag. If you have someone with hypothermia, they're probably not sweating too much at that point.


OK they are not going to sweat further but they are not going to dry out either and this could mean the thermal insulating properties of the clothing they are wearing is drastically affected. Might be OK for someone who will be picked up in the next few minutes with a helicopter but might mean the end of the road for someone who has to spend all night out in the cold as in the Haute Route disaster.
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