 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| flangesax wrote: |
During my training we were heavily encouraged to never offer percentages or numbers in concern with weighting the skis. Mainly because (as discussed in this thread) there are so many options and variables. In lessons we offer feedback of 'more' or 'less' etc... but would never say 'during that type of turn you should be weighting 80% downhill and 20% on the uphill...' it's pretty much frowned upon.
It gets fun when you start skiing and carving on just the one ski!... That one really does require a 100% weighting of the uphill ski  |
Agreed.
There is one instance, the transition.
Then, and it may only be for a milisecond, the ratio of balance (weighting) on each ski is 50%.
Then it's more on the downhill ski and less on the uphill ski.
Too many skiers have too much balance on the uphill ski.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| ALQ wrote: |
| If she ain’t flyin, she ain’t tryin (in deep husky skimottaret voice) |
That's a freakishly good impression!!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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@Little Martin, L2 as in Landes??
On my fresh up last season it was all about the opposite and getting our legs together more. I think it was because of the change of ski designs over the last 10 years.
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Too narrow a stance and I think it begins to interfere with how much you can get your skis tipped to increasingly large angles, perhaps also making it more difficult to have good lateral balance with speeds are high and you are getting thrown around a bit. Too wide a stance and you have to move your centre of mass a long way laterally to "get past" your inside leg in order to tip your skis over. I think a neutral hip width is a good starting point for stance, and adjust from there in response to the forces you are creating.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I think that was it Rob. Going from near shoulder width to a more natural hip width.
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| ALQ wrote: |
| If she ain’t flyin, she ain’t tryin (in deep husky skimottaret voice) |
That's a freakishly good impression!! |
 fortunately, the big cuddly wookie won’t remember me.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| flangesax wrote: |
@Little Martin, L2 as in Landes??
On my fresh up last season it was all about the opposite and getting our legs together more. I think it was because of the change of ski designs over the last 10 years. |
Nah you can't take the Arlberg out of the Austrian. They like to keep tight hold of those 10 Euro notes between the butt cheeks
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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One of the lessons I had with Claude he had us in tuck position as that forced us to use ankles to roll rather than whole body. I found that useful for getting a real feel for being on edge through the turn, although one for a flat run otherwise you can end up at Mach 10 if you don’t have the required skill (I don’t).
I take much longer to grasp things when I get technical advice like 70/30 etc. my breakthrough moments always happen based on what I feel, that’s when things click and I can start working on them.
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@flangesax, what @rob@rar said.
Basically you can roll easier if your legs are further apart, we aren't talking john wayne, although the drill was fun, and for some of the group improved their positioning of the legs as they tended to skis too close together.
One thing to try in the mountains, just make your legs really wide and try ski on edges when turning, try the same narrow, then adjust in between, and feel the difference in carving.
If you see a world cup racer on their turns, just see how wide the gap is at times on their turns, probably more than shoulder width.
This isn't every turn, as every turn is different, but worth trying out different widths for carving.
I spent a bit of time trying all sorts of positions, my fav where I'm probably more on inside that outside with extreme edge angles and my body is on the floor but still in control carving a clean line. Just watch out for bumps in the snow. 
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You know it makes sense.
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| Little Martin wrote: |
| If you see a world cup racer on their turns, just see how wide the gap is at times on their turns, probably more than shoulder width. |
I don't think this is accurate, or helpful for the OP.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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not trying to help the op
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Poster: A snowHead
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Lots of good advice given.
- One area to be aware of (apologies if it's been mentioned), is alignment. Your skis have to do the same thing, at the same time and by the same amount. If your physiology makes this impossible, without alignment, you are on an uphill struggle.
- Back in the day, on straight skis, we were taught to have all the weight on the D/Hill ski, as it was hard to bend, unless you were going very fast, with all your weight on it. The U/Hill ski was little more than an outrigger. Now, with skis that turn so easily, the U/Hill one has to pull its weight, so to speak.
- Experiment with different amounts of weight, at different speeds, in different turns and in different snow conditions....but whatever you do, the U/Hill ski should always mirror the D/Hill one. I was once told, that there should always be just enough weight on the U/Hill ski, to keep it stable and tracking beside the other one.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Old Fartbag wrote: |
Lots of good advice given.
- - -- I was once told, that there should always be just enough weight on the U/Hill ski, to keep it stable and tracking beside the other one. |
That was the thinking behind my original post. If 100% of your weight is on your downhill ski, as some videos advise; it must make controlling the uphill ski, and making sure it stays parallel, more difficult. Every good carved turn I've seen has two distinct tramlines (not necessarily of equal depth), suggesting there must me some weight, albeit a small amount on your uphill ski, to keep it tracking parallel.
As you say lots of good advice, and surprisingly (and thankfully), non of it was really contradictory.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Awdbugga wrote: |
| That was the thinking behind my original post. If 100% of your weight is on your downhill ski, as some videos advise; it must make controlling the uphill ski, and making sure it stays parallel, more difficult. Every good carved turn I've seen has two distinct tramlines (not necessarily of equal depth), suggesting there must me some weight, albeit a small amount on your uphill ski, to keep it tracking parallel. |
I think it's pretty rare to have somebody who can split their balance between outside and inside skis, to the accuracy of percentage points. I know I can't, although I am aware of being balanced; outside ski dominant; or very outside ski dominant (including being able to carve fully on the outside ski). I'm not sure why it would automatically be the case that if you're 100% balanced on the outside ski the inside ski is going to develop a mind of its own, wandering off in a different direction. Why would it do that? Being 100% balanced on the outside ski for the majority of the turn is normally only going to happen in a specific drill or exercise, although the vagaries of ski high speed, carved turns might well mean your lateral balance moves around so briefly you might be. The key is to be in dynamic balance rather than seek a fixed distribution of your weight across inside and outside skis. Most of the time the inside ski is going to be (hopefully) tipped to about the same angle as your outside and should track along approximately parallel to the dominant outside ski, unless you add an unnecessary movement like flattening and twisting it.
https://vimeo.com/79838624
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@rob@rar, I don't think the U/Hill ski develops a mind of its own per se....In my case, when skiing fast on very hard snow, if there was almost no weight on it (old habits), it could get a little jittery....whereas, if there was a little weight on it, I could feel it working beside the other one.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Old Fartbag wrote: |
| ... if there was almost no weight on it (old habits), it could get a little jittery... |
Is that a problem? It's a dynamic sport, and we get bounced around a fair bit. Just so long as you are in dynamic balance you can cope with all sorts of jitters as you go around the turn. In the clip above, even trying to ski smoothly the inside ski moves around a little. Take a look at the final right-footed turn and see what the inside ski does. It's pretty light for much of the turn, comes off the snow briefly at one point, back on to the snow, bounces a little. But in the grand scheme of things all irrelevant as the outside ski is stable and provides a good platform to create the turn with.
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| Old Fartbag wrote: |
| ... if there was almost no weight on it (old habits), it could get a little jittery... |
Is that a problem? It's a dynamic sport, and we get bounced around a fair bit. Just so long as you are in dynamic balance you can cope with all sorts of jitters as you go around the turn. In the clip above, even trying to ski smoothly the inside ski moves around a little. Take a look at the final right-footed turn and see what the inside ski does. It's pretty light for much of the turn, comes off the snow briefly at one point, back on to the snow, bounces a little. But in the grand scheme of things all irrelevant as the outside ski is stable and provides a good platform to create the turn with. |
All I can tell you, is that it all felt more comfortable, with just enough weight on the U/Hill ski, so I could feel it working. I can't really speak for anyone else...but it did seem relevant to the question. IME. When you only get 1 week of skiing per year, little things like this can help with getting the two skis co-operating with each other. 
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@Awdbugga, There can be a difference between "what is happening" and "what you need to tell yourself to make it happen".
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@Awdbugga, I'm not an instructor nor is my technique all that good so I'm reluctant to give advice but I have seen the ski more recently than anyone else on here. So with that in mind...
Your skiing has come a long way in the last 12 months, especially considering you've only had one week on the mountain and lots of sessions indoors but... Well from what I saw you need to work on simpler thing before worrying about carved turns. In fact I'd say without instruction now, to iron out any issues with your current technique, trying to teach yourself to carve might be counter productive.
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| Awdbugga wrote: |
| To my simple mind; if there is no weight at all on the uphill ski (zero), then surely it would not make a clean line in the snow and would just be skimming along the top of it some of the time. Yet all the videos I've seen seem to show two distinct "grooves" in the snow. |
Is anybody advocating 100% on the outside ski* for all of the turn?
* I find it easier to talk about inside ski and outside ski. Uphill and downhill skis are relative terms that change meaning halfway through every turn (just in the last couple of posts you and OF have used the term uphill ski to refer to both the inside and the outside ski).
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| adithorp wrote: |
| Your skiing has come a long way in the last 12 months, especially considering you've only had one week on the mountain and lots of sessions indoors but... Well from what I saw you need to work on simpler thing before worrying about carved turns. In fact I'd say without instruction now, to iron out any issues with your current technique, trying to teach yourself to carve might be counter productive. |
Not having seen him ski I'd agree that's usually good advice for all skiers with that level of experience, although there's nothing particularly special about carving as it's just a particular application of fundamental ski skills, so I wouldn't exclude anyone working towards being able cleanly to link carved turns when they are on appropriate terrain.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| adithorp wrote: |
@Awdbugga, I'm not an instructor nor is my technique all that good so I'm reluctant to give advice but I have seen the ski more recently than anyone else on here. So with that in mind...
Your skiing has come a long way in the last 12 months, especially considering you've only had one week on the mountain and lots of sessions indoors but... Well from what I saw you need to work on simpler thing before worrying about carved turns. In fact I'd say without instruction now, to iron out any issues with your current technique, trying to teach yourself to carve might be counter productive. |
Adi, I’m going to have a one to one lesson as soon as I can. Only fly in the ointment at the moment is I’m waiting for a potentially very big bill to come in. Last time I get a car on a PCP contract, grrrrr. 
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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@BoardieK, yes, very smooth, stylish, well controlled skiing on those vids.
Where are all the slope users, snaking beginner classes, out of control wannabe racers and other obstacles to get around or avoid though?
Laboratory test conditions are not what most of us get to ski most days
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@PeakyB, Get out in late Nov, you often get 4 - 5 weeks of empty pistes before the Xmas rush comes in. Then switch to off piste 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Scarpa, yes I try to get an early and late week in. Also usually avoid February. Get some quieter pistes that way but rarely that empty.
Off piste too much for my knees now unfortunately
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Another point - slope. Very few people will carve smoothly down a red run, even fewer down a black. Initially carving needs a lot of space so that the change of direction is gentle and smooth while you wait for the ski edges to grip and change direction. Too many carved turns start with a skidded turn to check speed.
At high speeds and centripetal forces, weight will be almost 50%, to leave 2 ticks in the snow of equal size. Too much pressure on the outer ski will result in juddering as edge breaks away.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@Dmitri, you're right. Whilst there is so much talk/waffle/bollux and real insight here into what the skis are supposed to be doing, we do tend to forget that from yer bum upwards is where we need to be in balance and be able to maintain that by making adjustments to all the things yer bum is supported by . . . It really is the 'duck' analogy, top two thirds elegantly gliding down the hill, bottom third bangin' away like a bunny on acid. It is an odd feeling when you get it for the first time, being able to mentally separate your calm upper body movements from the massive amount of input and response in your legs.
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I pretty much always carve, agree its all about feel and maintaining flexibility/responsiveness, the moment you stiffen up too much is the moment it all goes to pot.
Higher speed or sharper turns = higher outside ski pressure needed
Not a lot beats the feeling of a good carve
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FAQ
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