 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi all,
I know this topic has probably been done to death, but it's nice to think about non Covid threads for a change.
Here's the current plan. Just had new skis for my birthday-the new Salomon Stance 88W. I wanted something to replace my battered Blizzard brahmas, but lighter. The plan is to stick some Salomon shift bindings on them and use them as my daily all mountain ski but also use them to start a bit of simple touring. I'm hoping they ski as well as the reviews say they do (slightly wary that "women's skis" turn out to be a bit limp-as Mr P says "you like a stiff ski"  ). For the time being they will be skied with hybrid touring/alpine boots (Nordica strider).
Any recommendations as to skins? I've read blurb about the various options of synthetic, mixed synthetic and mohair, or simply mohair and their relative strengths and weaknesses. This is definitely not for all day high mountain gnarly adventures!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I doubt many of us have tested out numerous pairs of skins so something like the above review is probably your best bet for getting info - outdoor gear lab usually do a pretty good job of these kind of reviews.
Personally I've been happy with g3s and always go back to them. That means I've never tried another brand though, so difficult to compare.
Personally grip is much more of a concern to me than glide. I'd happily lose a bit of speed in exchange for being confident in my skins gripping on any steep icy terrain and I don't really do huge days. Also I mainly tour in n America where the skin tracks tend to be overly aggressive and steep compared to the more mellow and efficient euro skin tracks. Also i know my uphill technique is not the best, and the extra grip helps make up for this - the article explains this more eloquently.
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@Perty, As I'm sure you will find out as you read about skins, there seems to be an elitest desire to find the highest glide at the expense of everything else, and 'grip' is a four letter word.
I'm not into massive flat approaches or multi-day hut to hut tours, so I'll take grip over glide. I find I use far more energy overcoming lack of traction, than I do from having slightly less efficent glide.
As for recommendations, as with all things in skiing it is a 'it depends' answer. If you typically ski in one area, and you plan to tour in the same area, check what the local touring shops sell, or if possible what the local guides use. Having said that, and as mentioned above, you won't go far wrong with G3 skins. The main complaint against them is that the glue is too strong, which is better than it being too weak. I've had a few pairs and never had a major problem.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Thanks folks, you’ve been really helpful 
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I've got Black Diamond ascension full nylon skins. Touring with some mates in March, who all had 50:50 mohair mix skins, the extra grip was very noticeable - I could skin much steeper than them, and I can assure you that this wasn't through greater skill on my part!
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Don’t overthink it. If you can find a pair that are discounted and they’ll fit, give them a whirl.
I generally think that if you spend a lot of time slipping you either need to work on your technique or the track is too steep.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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(Splitboard) but it’s the same kind of thing, replaced worn out Pomoca with BD ascension mainly because they were cheap and been impressed with the grip. The glue is pretty good too but I’m no expert.
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| Quote: |
I generally think that if you spend a lot of time slipping you either need to work on your technique or the track is too steep.
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I agree with both points. However...
I know my uphill technique definitely could be improved a lot. The fact is I'm probably not going to improve it though. Most seasons I get about 10 days touring in - none of which involve huge distances/climbs. I'm already at a similar speed to the guys I usually tour with, so even if I was faster I'd just be waiting for them at the top anyway. I think for a lot of people that just like to do smallish tours for fun and are not so bothered about speed the benefits of improved technique probably don't feel worth the cost.
Most of the skin tracks I see in British Columbia are much steeper than the recommended angles for efficiency. I'm also to blame as if I put in a track my natural tendency is to go steeper than what's most efficient. That said 99% of the time even a bad skin track is more efficient than breaking trail in deep snow. I don't think I'm alone in being lazy enough to take a bad skin track over breaking trail.
So for those of us lazy beginners grippier skins solve some things making everything a bit easier. we should probably spend more time improving technique but we are flawed human beings who just want to enjoy our time in the mountians. If your goal is huge objectives/rando races/becoming a guide of course you should learn properly rather than using equipment to cover up technical flaws.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I've used 3 types, g3, colltex and gecko
G3 was my first purchase, they had the best grip and worst glide. The glue is in my opinion too strong, but I'd still say they are a decent option.
Next I had gecko, these were really good. No complaints.
Next I got colltex, these have also been really good and I prefer them to the g3 because they glide better and glue not so strong.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| boarder2020 wrote: |
| Most of the skin tracks I see in British Columbia are much steeper than the recommended angles for efficiency. I'm also to blame as if I put in a track my natural tendency is to go steeper than what's most efficient. That said 99% of the time even a bad skin track is more efficient than breaking trail in deep snow. I don't think I'm alone in being lazy enough to take a bad skin track over breaking trail. |
Depends go deep the snow is IME. If it's thigh deep, I take your point; boot deep I'd rather put my own track in than haul myself up something really too steep.
North American skin tracks are the worst 
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Agree with the sentiments above. With good tip and tail connectors the glue is not so important and it is a major pain to handle super sticky skins, especially when it’s cold and your hands are numb. This doesn’t seem to be such a problem with the newer skins I’ve bought. Grip on the uphill much more important than glide for an occasional tourer - slipping back and falling on a steep slope is no laughing matter!
Pomoca make great skins but a were quite pricey. I’ve also got some Kohla Mohair skins which glide really well but need more attention in icy conditions and the wife has the Contour Hybrids which are also good. Not sure you can go far wrong with a new Hybrid pair from one of these 3, Colltex, BD or G3.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Arno wrote: |
Don’t overthink it. If you can find a pair that are discounted and they’ll fit, give them a whirl.
I generally think that if you spend a lot of time slipping you either need to work on your technique or the track is too steep. |
Have had G3 Alpinist. Runing Contour Hybrid Mix (special glue) & Kohla (mixed skin with normal glue) at the moment on two different touring setups.
I'd tend to agree with the above with one caveat. Skins are a bit like winter tyres in that you tend to get what you pay for and although you don't have to go for the super expensive top model don't go super cheap either.
Once bought some Völkl touring skis and the skins were included. The skins were very thin and cheap, they ended up being a nightmare when it got cold and icy - ended up replacing them after very little use.
A good quality skin will generally last longer and perform better. If you do a long hut-to-hut tour the extra performance will be worth every penny and we are only talking a few quid difference.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I've used, and own, a few different skins but mainly Black Diamond (nylon and mohair mix) and Contour (hybrid mix). In my experience BD have a slight edge on grip, but this is more than compensated by massively more efficient/less annoying transitions with Contour's hybrid (it's not technically glue-less, but the skins don't stick to each other) bases: http://www.kochalpin.at/en/brands/contour/hybrid/hybrid-mix
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Poster: A snowHead
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What I like about grippy skins is that they give me additional options - my fitness is above average, my skill is below, so for me, a steeper track with fewer kick turns is much easier. What counts as an "efficient" skin track for one person isn't the same for another, and I enjoy avoiding the conga lines that build up on skin tracks by heading off on my own a bit.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Anybody actually tried Pomoca skins? - they look to be almost as grippy as the best with great glide. They don't look to be anymore expensive than other top make skins (actually cheaper than a lot of those). Biggest downside looks to be their weight but if they slide well that shouldn't be too much of a problem either.
A grippy skin does avoid those embarassing/involutary Michael Jackson moonwalk impressions.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@DB, not sure there are any really cheap skins are there? Maybe there are some which don't make it as far as international distribution?
I've had a pair of g3 alpinists for about 10 years. Bought in a sale, no tail piece (I chuckle to myself when I see people espousing this as a "new thing to try"), fold them up with no backing sheets and I've only had real problems with them once. Even that was pretty easily fixed
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Arno wrote: |
@DB, not sure there are any really cheap skins are there? Maybe there are some which don't make it as far as international distribution?
I've had a pair of g3 alpinists for about 10 years. |
Looks like you can pick up skins for 80 to over 200 euro, going from cheapest to best is hardly going to brake the bank. I also picked up my G3 Alpinists in the 2011/12 Season.
Most skins are probably OK but if they are "free" with the skis I'd check who makes them and what model they are.
The Völkl ones I talked about date back to 2006. While I was doing my 6th tour with them and slipping around on ice my ski touring buddy was having no problems on a pair of very old, well used and chewed up colltex skins.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I had G3's not bad but as said, he glue was overly strong and tended to get a bit 'sloppy' over time. My current skins are the Atomic wide mohair/mix skins with the front rocker glide section for my powder skis, they have been fantastic.
On my all mountain skis I bought teh Colltex Clariden (see reviews here https://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=140623 ).
They are very light, a tiny bit more prone to damage if you use them over rocks etc, but stickiness has been the same as standard glue skins even at -15C and you don't need cheat sheets for them. If the wind whips them round they are easy to unstick. I am on my third year with them and would definitely buy them again.
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Contour make OEM skins for ATOMIC, BLACK CROW, KÄSTLE, HAGAN, SKI TRAB, DOWN und MAJESTY.
http://www.skimo.at/skibergsteigen/190216/alles-zum-thema-skitouren-fell-besuch-bei-koch-alpin-contour/
POMOCA make OEM skins for Dynafit, K2, DPS, Rossignol, blackcrows, blizzard, movement, salomon & ZAG (amongst others)
https://www.pomoca.com/en/oem-market
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Hybrid skins that can be stuck together and unstuck easily (I'm looking at you, Colltex) are a godsend in poor (windy) conditions and for rapid transitions. I found the glue didn't ball up too much with snow. Lower quality skins that lose their shape a bit and/or glue strength are more prone to letting snow ball up and that's the end of your skin. I'd sacrifice outright grip for that for a couple of reasons. As Arno's stated, a little bit of effort to improve technique makes a massive difference to your efficiency. Secondly, if it gets that bad, bang on a pair of couteau.
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FAQ
