 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@Davina Goldballs, Irresponsible behaviour by those in charge of the group, probably due to ignorance. 
I wonder whether Air Zermatt will charge the group for the costs involved in the rescue (and whether the Russians had travel insurance to cover such an event?)
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Alastair Pink,
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| Das wird ziemlich teuer |
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Sie werden bald eine gesalzene Rechnung kriegen
Denn die Kosten für einen solchen Rettungseinsatz werden in der Schweiz jeweils auf die Verursacher überwälzt. «Die Geretteten werden in der nächsten Zeit eine Rechnung erhalten», sagt der Zermatter Rettungschef Anjan Truffer zu BLICK. Die müsse dann entweder von ihnen direkt oder, falls vorhanden, von ihrer Versicherung beglichen werden. |
This going to be expensive. Hope they have insurance against stupidity!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@Steilhang, Good. I wonder whether the Russians have left Switzerland now before paying (or whether they will be prevented from doing so by the Swiss authorities)? 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Meanwhile, on Mont Blanc: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/08/18/mont-blanc-mayor-calls-ban-ill-prepared-thrillseekers/
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A man wearing trainers instead of mountain boots with crampons, was spotted this week on the narrow Bosses Ridge leading to the summit — a route first climbed in 1861 by a group including Leslie Stephen, father of the writer, Virginia Woolf.
Three others blithely risked their lives by lying sunbathing on a fragile snow bridge over a crevasse. “One man even tried to drag his poor dog up there, and a guide was punched for not stopping to let eight east European climbers pass his group,” the mayor said. “Last year a helicopter had to be called out to rescue two nine-year-old twins from Hungary who were being taken up by their parents. The father continued climbing.” |
And I believe it isn't much better on Ben Nevis etc.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Hmm - stupid people be stupid, ignorant people be ignorant. I'm always sceptical of those who seek to introduce additional bureaucracy ( and no doubt handsome fees) on grounds of safety to save people from themselves. Your everyday idiot may not blink at the fees or additional process but still be no safer having obtained a "licence" so the next step is to make guides mandatory etc etc.
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| Pruman wrote: |
And I believe it isn't much better on Ben Nevis etc. |
Your comment led me to do some internet searching. I wasn't aware of this, but apparently under Scottish Law (but not English) there is a common law offence of Culpable and Reckless Conduct.
Maybe time to bring a few prosecutions against people endangering themselves and others in the Scottish Mountains......
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Elf n safety gorrn maaad!! 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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the man in trainers was killian jornet
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Wed 22-08-18 13:28; edited 1 time in total
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@Davina Goldballs, perhaps not quite as reckless as it may seem. Whilst the route to the Monte Rosa hut does cross a glacier (or did when I did it last) it is "dry" in summer conditions and should be no issue for any reasonably fit person. Looking at the pictures the group seemed to be properly equipped, ice axes, proper clothing etc. Taking the kids is a judgement call, I have seen plenty of young children in the high mountains, sometimes carried on their parents' backs. The approach to this hut should not be particularly dangerous or strenuous so doable with young kids. I guess they got caught out by bad weather, perhaps they did not take enough notice of the weather forecast but they will not be the first or last folk to be caught out by unexpected bad weather in the mountains. It can be very easy to get lost, even the most experienced mountaineers can become disorientated in bad weather.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Alastair Pink wrote: |
@Davina Goldballs, Irresponsible behaviour by those in charge of the group, probably due to ignorance.
I wonder whether Air Zermatt will charge the group for the costs involved in the rescue (and whether the Russians had travel insurance to cover such an event?) |
Almost certainly. Free rescues stopped in the 1930s when the Swiss got fed up pulling Germans off the Eiger.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I'm sure they'll charge them but whether or not they will be able to recover it is another matter. I read an article in the paper here a couple of months back about cases where tourists were un- or under-insured - basically they are able to chase the debt in some countries but not others and if they don't pay then the rescue service gets landed with the bill for the rescue and the canton/gemeinde for any hospital treatment.
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....the air-jocks of Air Zermatt love doing this kind of stuff, I have seen them doing all sorts - landing on the old bridge at the Saas-Zermatt roundabout, doing a dramatic flare into the woods at Zinal...of course they need money to keep the clockwork in the toys running, so the nice person in the office will press the buttons on the calculator and send off the invoice.
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You know it makes sense.
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| davidof wrote: |
| the man in trainers was killian jornet |
Is that really true?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Alastair Pink wrote: |
| Pruman wrote: |
And I believe it isn't much better on Ben Nevis etc. |
Your comment led me to do some internet searching. I wasn't aware of this, but apparently under Scottish Law (but not English) there is a common law offence of Culpable and Reckless Conduct.
Maybe time to bring a few prosecutions against people endangering themselves and others in the Scottish Mountains...... |
"The offence has no specific definition but deals with acts involving a criminal degree of recklessness which cause injury to other persons or create a risk of such injury"
So no, putting yourself at risk doesn't count. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culpable_and_reckless_conduct
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Chamcham wrote: |
| davidof wrote: |
| the man in trainers was killian jornet |
Is that really true? |
it could be. he was on Instagram in his trsiners on mb the other day.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@davidof, Chapeau to him 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Things like this are always happening in the Lake District. People don't read the forecast or listen to the Fell top assessors in Winter or make any plans whatsoever, not even taking food or water. This March/April just after KMRT issued a warning that the mountains are still in full winter conditions and require crampons and ice axe, 2 of my guests told me they were going to 'do Helvellyn', upon advising them of KMRTs warning and suggesting they plan an alternate route should their summit attempt be unsuccessful based on conditions - they said no, we've done walking we'll be fine.
Next day, 'So did you make it up yesterday?', 'No, the conditions were too snowy and icey, I didn't realise it could be like that here!'... well I did tell you.
People do die up there & in the worst cases their bodies get trapped and they can't bring them down til Spring.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You're right about it not just being an Alps thing. Witnessed three families walk right out into the middle of frozen Red Tarn whilst I was descending from a climb on Helvellyn late Feb this year. Could here the ice shifting etc. Kids ages must have been in the range of 5 - 10. Also so someone slide a fair way down from swirral edge, so many people with no winter gear. What do you even say to them when the danger is so obvious?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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No, it’s not “obvious” to someone who had not experienced winter conditions besides their one week a year holiday to the mountain.
I once sae a SUV stranded on a snowmobile track. He didn’t understand why his tyres can’t get any traction on snow! He wasn’t even drunk.
Common sense is not at all common. 
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It is obvious. Every single time there is a slight dusting of snow anywhere in the country there are whether warnings in place, and reports of accidents etc and even loss of life. There are a huge amount of the population out there who chose to ignore danger and go out anyway. This is the same for Mountains - people not even taking a torch with them - sun sets at the same time whether you're up a mountain or in the town... what makes you think you wouldn't need a torch when sunset is 3.30pm, like it was yesterday, and the walk you're on is at least 6 hours that you started at 11am?
I remember as a teenager we were always taught 'better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it'. As mountains become more accessible people tend to think that they become less dangerous.
Unfortunately in my experience I've learnt that you can't 'tell' people they should be having Crampons & Ice axe and should be proficient in their use. I've learnt that people will only accept the weather forecast (the ignore it when it says -15*c at the summit + Windchill) and a suggestion that they leave their details, route plan (inc. alternate) in the event they don't return when expected. I give people leaflets 'How to stay safe in the mountains' supplied by KMRT That's all we can do.
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@Extremophile, spot on.
Glad I carried a spare headtorch last nov in the Lakes when one of our party of four picked up an injury and we needed 3 hrs to do a 1hr stretch. Was difficult enough with four people and three headtorches but would have been very nasty with four and none.
In 1990s someone I know in a rescue team carrying a stretcher case off Scafell Pike in clag and sleet launched a verbal attack on a long-haired pair coming up in tatty jackets, shorts and sandals. One of the other members of the team had to grab him and whisper '...er...layoff those two, one of them is Doug Scott...'....
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Chamcham wrote: |
| @davidof, Chapeau to him |
The guy they were talking about in the article was a trailer. I don't think trail shoes are wrong for that route depending on experience.
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If it was Killian Jornet I never know what to think - the guy has mountains of experience, but on the other hand people see him in shorts and trainers running around in the mountains and they think 'I'll have a go at that' and they take off up Sharp edge with no real understanding of the terrain or conditions.
Killian has a great team around him & he has intricate knowledge of the mountains he does his prep work, otherwise he wouldn't be able to do what he does, but because people don't see those members of his team or the prep work they think he's a maverick going solo, taking on the world as an average joe.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Hmm I've had a long slide from Striding Edge. Ironically came about because I'd just handed my ice axe to someone who wasn't properly equipped and really needed the security. A few steps later and crampons did f all. Had to slide a fair way until snow was soft enough to punch into by hand and speed was coming off a bit with the gradient mellowing. Lesson learned - let the ill equipped person fall 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@Dave of the Marmottes, this is getting to be like the BMC website ... I was taking the kids (then 11 and 13) up to the Bertol Hut at 3111m and what ten years before had been a long snow slope was partly blue water ice and partly shattered morraine - 80kg jagged blocks, all precariously balanced. Ho Hum, no crampons (but axes and reasonable rack) ... so up the morraine and off the ice. Only ... the blocks collapse and I get a huge whack on the head and a big hole in the arm. Spent the night seeping blood and kicking myself for not having spikes with me.
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I'm not giving my axe to anyone... if they failed to heed given risks why should i then give them my axe and risk my life!?
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You know it makes sense.
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Hmm reminds me I spied my axe in my bro's garage last time I was over - have to "unborrow" that
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Extremophile wrote: |
If it was Killian Jornet I never know what to think - the guy has mountains of experience, but on the other hand people see him in shorts and trainers running around in the mountains and they think 'I'll have a go at that' and they take off up Sharp edge with no real understanding of the terrain or conditions.
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I would also need to be convinced the guy in the article was wrong. I know people who have done the climb in trainers who are more experienced than Killian but obviously the margins for error are lower. To some extent the section below the router is more dangerous due to the black ice.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Lol.
The Russkis will probably face a Swiss bill of ~$5k.
The dood in sneakers was probably trying to break the ascent or descent record for MB.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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It was probably a very simple rescue as luckily one would fit in the other and then the other and then the other....
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