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OH Wants To Learn

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Look nice though it might be sHs don't own him or his relationship. He's had some ideas and rejected some and taken others for consideration. But he's not beholden to get his OH involved in the thread just for our entertainment and in any event I doubt any us before we had ever been skiing has ANY idea what we did or didn't want from a skiing hol.

Fwiw I think he should skip skiing and learn to board with her. 3 days and she should be good enough to ride pretty extensively and if not she'll have at laugh at dp and his massively bruised arris.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@Dave of the Marmottes, Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
PeakyB wrote:
@dp, perhaps once you’ve decided your ‘possible options’ and which suggestions (other than Fridge Overkill) that you don’t fancy, you could summarise?
Then SHs could offer more specific suggestions, if still wanted by then?


I kind of did:

dp wrote:
So at the moment, the options I'm considering most are:

- Compromising on the accommodation arrangement slightly, and doing a "part-time" UCPA week (morning lessons, free afternoons); or even a "full time" UCPA week as (contrary to popular assumption) she is not against the concept of not-skiing together and just catching up in the evenings, if it means that she gets better instruction.

- Holding out for a MYAsHBash (and hoping that preferably it's not in Livigno) which should see her get morning lessons and afternoons off, with freedom to either ski together in the afternoons or let her explore the area with new friends.

- Booking an hotel or chalet in a charming alpine resort and booking a week's course of mornings with a local ski school, with the freedom to ski afternoons with me or with her coursemates

- Booking a self-catering apartment in a charming alpine resort and booking a week's course of mornings with a local ski school as above - with the self-catering aspect literally being there to free up money that can otherwise thus be spent on lessons.
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holidayloverxx wrote:
@dp, how old and unfit is Mrs DP. I am asking because there are so many suggestions that all day lessons are too tiring. I am baffled by that assertion...as you know theres a lot if standing around in group lessons. Even if they are tiring anyone under 50 with reasonable fitness should be able to cope with all day lessons...which in reality are only 4 or 5 hours with a break for lunch.


Her fitness is fine and I would be surprised if she struggled with a day of lessons, again I think more assumptions on the basis of no actual information which is a bit annoying. As per previous posts, if this was a woman asking about taking her husband/boyfriend skiing for the first time, would posters be doubting their ability to complete the day, and suggest ensuring some availability of a spa instead? I, personally, doubt it. Just more 'advice' on the basis of sexist stereotyping.
ski holidays
 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Skiing holidays are holidays. Most people have pretty clear ideas what sort of holidays they like - and many are mutually exclusive. Stuff I actively dislike includes spas and shopping. You would have to pay me considerable sums to get me on a big cruise ship. I prefer to rent a cottage or apartment or boat rather than stay in hotels. To make helpful ski holiday suggestions for me - you'd need to know those things. The OP has spent more time slagging off people than he has trying to give us a feel for the kind of holiday his other half likes.
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dp wrote:
PeakyB wrote:
@dp, perhaps once you’ve decided your ‘possible options’ and which suggestions (other than Fridge Overkill) that you don’t fancy, you could summarise?
Then SHs could offer more specific suggestions, if still wanted by then?


I kind of did:

dp wrote:
So at the moment, the options I'm considering most are:

- Compromising on the accommodation arrangement slightly, and doing a "part-time" UCPA week (morning lessons, free afternoons); or even a "full time" UCPA week as (contrary to popular assumption) she is not against the concept of not-skiing together and just catching up in the evenings, if it means that she gets better instruction.

- Holding out for a MYAsHBash (and hoping that preferably it's not in Livigno) which should see her get morning lessons and afternoons off, with freedom to either ski together in the afternoons or let her explore the area with new friends.

- Booking an hotel or chalet in a charming alpine resort and booking a week's course of mornings with a local ski school, with the freedom to ski afternoons with me or with her coursemates

- Booking a self-catering apartment in a charming alpine resort and booking a week's course of mornings with a local ski school as above - with the self-catering aspect literally being there to free up money that can otherwise thus be spent on lessons.


So practically all types of ski holiday available, hence the advice you've received.


Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Mon 30-07-18 7:56; edited 1 time in total
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@pam w, may I suggest you go back and actually read the thread? It's clear they've discussed it. The OP has made numerous references to his OH's preferences, including a helpful summary post of the most likely options. He's even re-quoted that on this very page for those who missed it first time round. Dp has provided more than enough information for those who know of possible solutions to provide them.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Quote:

if this was a woman asking about taking her husband/boyfriend skiing for the first time, would posters be doubting their ability to complete the day


@dp, yes.

Nothing sexist about it. Skiing uses specific musculature, and in a specific way, that is hard to condition for. Beginners are doubly worse, as they are typically relatively inefficient in how they go about it.

So ... full days lessons for anyone (actually at any stage) is a big ask.

I've (a bloke) skied a lot (? 1,300+ days), am reasonably competent, reasonably fit (I exercise regularly and typically do a 12-15km run at the weekend, at moderate altitude) and I found myself quite knackered after full days instruction/coaching last time I did it.

Not something I would relish on holiday.

But you are (IMHO) quite right about the fridge. Use it to get past say day 2 or 3 and that's it.
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An opinion

A holiday where you put your ski kit on every day and go out and ski is a skiing holiday.

If you take one or more full days off where you don't ski, that's a holiday with skiing.

A question dp

Is your OH a morning person?

If not, would afternoon lessons be more suitable?

She gets to have a relaxed morning and then has an afternoon lesson which is typically cheaper, with less students in the group.

And you get to make first lift and bash out a solid morning before meeting her to accompany her to the lesson.

When she's done, it's apres time.

Or maybe a combination of full, morning and afternoon lessons
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It is not just the physical side of lessons that can be tiring but also the mental aspect of learning new skills so for that reason I would recommend one of the morning lessons only options with the afternoons available for skiing, spa or whatever. The important thing is that she enjoys her holiday.
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@under a new name,
Quote:

But you are (IMHO) quite right about the fridge. Use it to get past say day 2 or 3 and that's it.
Those of us who, for many years, have been gluttons for the punishment meted out by Inside Out Skiing at Hemel, would dispute that. wink
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
@Hurtle, That is a fair point, but I think the bug is more likely to bite in the mountains, non?
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So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
@under a new name, agreed.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
under a new name wrote:
@Hurtle, That is a fair point, but I think the bug is more likely to bite in the mountains, non?
Of course. In fact, if a beginner just wanted a taster session in a snow dome before going out on their first ski holiday I'd probably advise them to save their money and wait until they get to the mountains. There's not a huge amount you'd gain in a single taster session that would significantly change your experience of your first week away, so why bother? As a beginner the best you can hope for from a one-off taster session is that you discover you like skiing (of dubious benefit if you're already committed to going on your first ski holiday), some familiarity with the kit and a bit of sliding around experience which isn't going to mean much when you get to your first ski lessons. The worst that could happen is that you don't enjoy the snow dome experience which puts you off the mountain experience (which we all know is very different).

The real benefits of skiing indoors are to improve systematically your skills at times when you aren't able to get to the mountains, or as a quick 'find your ski legs' session perhaps combined with a technical refresher to give you a couple of priorities to work on if you want to improve. I was reminded of this by a Facebook post yesterday by one of our regular clients at Inside Out Skiing who has just celebrated his 4th anniversary of first strapping on skis, and who last winter passed his Level 2 instructor exams. A very large part of his development took place indoors, although with as much time in the mountains (some of it with us) as work and family commitments allow.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@under a new name, I understand what you are saying about ski fitness and build etc. And I agree that a full day can be tiring for anybody - to be honest I seldom ski a full 9-5 day without having a substantial rest break in the middle, and you're right, if I do ski the full 9-5 without a rest break then I will finish the day very tired. And I have those ski muscles and good technique (where good technique is usually much less strenuous than poor technique, meaning learning can be harder on you). However I just feel that throughout this thread there have been opinions placed which make a lot of assumptions which, in my opinion (and the opinion of others who've PM'd me) would have been different assumptions if I'd been a woman asking about ski holiday advice for my husband or boyfriend.

I understand the male and female bodies are different, but likewise, some women are fitter than some men, would you not agree? Some women are going to have a much easier time skiing all day than some men. So why the assumption that my girlfriend might struggle, and prefer to spend the afternoon in the spa instead? You're saying that isn't sexist? You're saying that a girl asking about a holiday for her boyfriend would be told that he might be tired by lunchtime and want to spend the afternoon in the spa?

I just don't think so. I don't disagree per se with your method, I just don't feel that your method is the foundation of some of those comments.


Last edited by Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name: on Mon 30-07-18 11:00; edited 1 time in total
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@rob@rar,
Quote:

has just celebrated his 4th anniversary of first strapping on skis, and who last winter passed his Level 2 instructor exams

Wow! Very Happy
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@rob@rar, I don't know how much of the rest of the thread you've read, but basically I don't disagree with you. I learned and practiced in a fridge, and I think there are definite benefits to learning the fundamentals in that manner that I might not have had in resort, and by the time I was first able to visit a ski resort, I was far enough developed to have lessons which took place all over the mountain.

But I just know my OH and I know what she wants from skiing (at the moment - it could change!). I think those of us here who are snowHeads in life as much as on the forum, it makes a lot of sense to use the fridge so you can get cracking in August when there's no snow in resort, so by the time you head out in February or March you're a pretty capable skier who can head straight out. It's not a non-sensible policy, but I think subconsciously we might forget that it works for people who want to be as good as they can be by the time they get there. I think to somebody that just wants to ski, in mountains, on holiday... whether they spend that holiday week skiing lessons or independently is reasonable immaterial.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@Gämsbock, pam w has read the thread. She's just doled out heaps of criticism because I don't agree with her. She seems to have this belief that because I don't want to follow her advice, I therefore shouldn't be entitled to anybody else's either.

@pam w, I wasn't asking for holiday advice, I was asking for advice on how to put my OH through lessons in a manner where I can ski with her or without her without affecting my own enjoyment. I have at no point asked for advice on any other aspect of the holiday.

You have been critical of my posts from the start, and you've called me out for saying things I haven't said. I'd politely suggest that this isn't a thread for you and that perhaps you just take the simple route to avoid getting offended, and stop reading it.

But I would suggest that if you find it so difficult having people disagree with your opinions, that you don't go around being quite so judgemental about people you don't know. In fact, come to think of it, you could even follow my previous advice...

dp wrote:
@pam w, stop talking, you're making it worse not better


Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Mon 30-07-18 11:03; edited 1 time in total
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dp wrote:
@rob@rar, I don't know how much of the rest of the thread you've read
A little of it, but not followed religiously,
dp wrote:
but basically I don't disagree with you. I learned and practiced in a fridge, and I think there are definite benefits to learning the fundamentals in that manner that I might not have had in resort, and by the time I was first able to visit a ski resort, I was far enough developed to have lessons which took place all over the mountain.
Yes, I understand that, my comment was more generic than advice offered specifically to you. I appreciate that you've said that your other half is thinking about indoor sessions to perhaps get up to snowplough turning, with I think will make a material difference to her first week experience, but will probably take more than just one taster session to get to that ability level. If she was thinking of just one taster session I'd say save her money and spend it on the holiday.

dp wrote:
But I just know my OH and I know what she wants from skiing (at the moment - it could change!). I think those of us here who are snowHeads in life as much as on the forum, it makes a lot of sense to use the fridge so you can get cracking in August when there's no snow in resort, so by the time you head out in February or March you're a pretty capable skier who can head straight out. It's not a non-sensible policy, but I think subconsciously we might forget that it works for people who want to be as good as they can be by the time they get there. I think to somebody that just wants to ski, in mountains, on holiday... whether they spend that holiday week skiing lessons or independently is reasonable immaterial.
Agree entirely, to be a regular user of a snow dome you're probably going to need to be committed to improving, and probably improving in a particular way. This absolutely isn't for every skier, nor should it be. My girlfriend has never skied indoors, and doesn't take ski lessons in the mountains despite having an "in-house" instructor whose hourly rates are very reasonable. She likes her skiing holidays and feels no urge to improve her skiing, which seems to me to be a perfectly sensible notion. But for those who are committed to improving their skiing skills as much as they can, a snow dome can provide an excellent training venue especially if combined with some good instruction. This will enable you to have more fun when you do get to the mountains.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
@dp, I'm making no assumptions.

All I intended to convey was that for anyone starting out, regardless of gender, a full day, everyday of lessons is probably too much.

Puzzled

You asked,

"if this was a woman asking about taking her husband/boyfriend skiing for the first time, would posters be doubting their ability to complete the day"

I simply said, "@dp, yes." - i.e. I would be.
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@dp, For my first ski trip, we booked a "learn to ski" Crystal package to Finland with another newbie couple. I think this would work really well for your girlfriend, as the snow record and high quality of instruction at a low price make it good value, but I think you'd be bored after a day or two (unless you got regular 1m fresh dumps like we did...) so I didn't suggest it, though I think someone else has.

Where I was going though, was that I had never put skis on before the trip, so as it got closer was getting increasingly frantic about whether I'd be able to do it. N had skied before on a school trip, and one half of the other couple is one of those annoying sporty types who can pick anything up in about ten minutes. In a last minute panic, I booked a 4hr learn to ski course at Castleford fridge. As well as getting the basics sorting (skis on/off, walking, skating etc.), I was able to snowplough in control by the end of the session (I used to skate, so I think that helped), and this meant I was able to skip the lowest lesson group once we arrived in resort. So I think you can definitely get a handle on the basics beforehand in a relatively short time, this does save a few hours of beginner faff on the mountain, but I otherwise agree that snowdomes are boring and the only times I've used the since was for fit checks on new boots and SH ski tests.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
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@rob@rar, sorry for the misunderstanding I didn't mean one taster session, I meant the one day introductory course at Chill Factore.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
@under a new name I think 'complete the day' is a variable term, completing the day doesn't need to be 9-5 with no break. I think if you start at 9 then it's completely reasonable to be finishing at 3.30-4, particularly in the late season.

But it was more the insinuation that she'd be finished by lunch time and want to spend the afternoon in the spa each day. I still don't think people would make that assumption for male skiers.
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@dp, maybe if lunch time is around 4pm NehNeh
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under a new name wrote:

.... for anyone starting out, regardless of gender, a full day, everyday of lessons is probably too much.


Nonsense - I had no problem at all at age 31 with all day lessons on a learn to ski week. I was in no way fit but I managed perfectly well, as do thousands of others.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
@Scarlet, I agree, the more I think about it the more I would advise a Learn to Ski package for Mrs DP and let DP go off and do his own thing and catch up at apres. I went with Inghams
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@holidayloverxx, it's not that I want people to suggest that either. I just want the flexibility that if she wants to spend the afternoon with people from her lesson, she can do that. If she wants to spend it with me, we can do that. And if I particularly want to do my thing in the afternoon, she has options.

I'm amazed that it's 2018 and people are acting like it's so bizarre that a couple might want to have some independence on a ski trip.
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So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
@holidayloverxx,

Most people don't do all day lessons.*

Most of the folks I know who've taken it up as adults have or would have found full days too much.

Just because it worked for you doesn't make my observation "nonsense".

* At least in my experience, limited to a number of spots in France, Switzerland, Italy, Scotland **

** Scotland a long time ago.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@under a new name, I would assert that thousands do take all day lessons, otherwise TO and ski schools wouldn't sell them.

Most of the folks I know who have taken it up as adults, and took all day lessons, found it fine

It worked for me and people I know - I accept maybe your observation might not be "nonsense" but you stated it as a fact not an observation. As a fact it is nonsense because it patently isn't true

@dp, I have found in group lessons that you end up not with your group in the afternoons as they go off to be with their families and friends as soon as the lesson is over. In fact I once went with a friend to their presentation night and they didn't even recognise each other without the helmet and goggles!
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@holidayloverxx, at least in Chamonix ESF and Evo2 only sell part days, morning, lunchtime or afternoon...
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
dp wrote:
I just want the flexibility that if she wants to spend the afternoon with people from her lesson, she can do that. If she wants to spend it with me, we can do that. And if I particularly want to do my thing in the afternoon, she has options.

Right. So, this finally seems to state the main question/problem/ideal desire.
I think that without going with a big group (e.g. on a SHds Bash) or with a group of friends, ski club, etc, if you are travelling as a couple then it will simply be a bit of pot luck as to who you are with or meet whilst there, who dp can ski with (so not on his own), what Mrs dp's lesson group people want to do in non-lesson time (afternoons), if she gets on with them, if they are at or above or below her standard and rate of learning, how tired or eager they are (never mind her), if they want to ski or drill, etc. As said above, they may have their own friends and family to ski with, so cannot be relied upon as skiing company for Mrs dp.
If you go alone (i.e. as a couple), then barring lesson time you do have to plan either for being together on the slopes (or otherwise) all of that time or for separating at some point and each doing your own thing alone, whatever that may be. If you fall lucky then other suitable people crop up - you meet in the accommodation, at meals and bars or on the slopes - to give you both that increased flexibility and for one or both of you to be able to separate off. But to my way of thinking, and being on many ski trips as a couple, you can't overtly plan for it at the outset without either going with a few more people or into some kind of group holiday setting from the start.
As you say in other posts, it's all a bit unknown, so there's not much that you can do to change it except react as it comes when you're there.


Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Mon 30-07-18 12:19; edited 1 time in total
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@under a new name, @holidayloverxx, let's not get carried away with the prospect of all day lessons.

The only time I've even mentioned them is on the UCPA trips, and even then my experience of skiing with UCPA was that if you wanted to get away from the group for some time on your own there was no issue with doing so.

So this is all reasonably immaterial. She's a grown-up and if she's having a hard time keeping up then I'm sure she'll know when to stop.


Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Mon 30-07-18 12:17; edited 1 time in total
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@under a new name, but missing from your list is Austria, where most lessons are all day. Where all day is generally something like 09:30-15:30 with a break for lunch. I learned in my mid-20s but I was not particularly fit (I'm fitter now) and I had no issues with stamina. Nor do I recall anyone else in my lessons struggling with this or giving up early.
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holidayloverxx wrote:

@dp, I have found in group lessons that you end up not with your group in the afternoons as they go off to be with their families and friends as soon as the lesson is over. In fact I once went with a friend to their presentation night and they didn't even recognise each other without the helmet and goggles!


Word
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Couple of additions to what I've said before Dave...

I did the "learn to ski in a day" session at Castleford and at the time I was still cycling competitively and so pretty fit. By the end I could ski a bit... but I couldn't walk and driving back over the m62, I spent 20miles at full throttle due to the mother of all cramps.

People may be having trouble understanding why she might not want to ski with you.... BECAUSE they haven't met/skied with you Laughing

(sorry mate, been trying to resist for days)
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@Gämsbock,
Quote:

missing from your list is Austria


Being why I qualified my comment with the list... snowHead
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@under a new name, all these years on snowheads and you haven't heard of the all day ski school in Austria? Shocked wink
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
@dp, Apols, yes I was aware of your early ‘possibles’ post and ideas.
I wondered if any of the subsequent, more specific suggestions, were rejected/possible/probable. For example, specific areas some had suggested?
Obviously the Fridge visits will be limited and I think that’s good.
snowHead
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under a new name wrote:
@holidayloverxx, at least in Chamonix ESF and Evo2 only sell part days, morning, lunchtime or afternoon...


I don't doubt it. Italy and Austria sell full days
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@Gämsbock, all those years and all those ski-days and never skied Austria ... Shocked

It really is shocking!

@holidayloverxx, You can't just generalise like that NehNeh Champoluc (still in Italy when I last looked but threatening to be annexed by Switzerland) doesn't do full days by default. (Obviously, anything can be arranged...)
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