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Have we ruined skiing forever?

 Poster: A snowHead
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Thanks all... I've found a few Airbnb condos in Frisco which are half the price of Breck and others, appear to give me good options on 4 or 5 different areas which means something new each day. We've had a couple of poor experiences with Late Dec early Jan in Europe... lets hope Colerado doesn't let us down!.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
There is currently no direct flight in the winter to SLC.
We have been put to the test with US flight connections/immigration over the past few years so next year we’re taking a direct flight to Denver and have booked a transfer to Snowmass.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Something to consider about Vail, Brecken(f)ridge etc is that they’re so high it takes a lot of energy just to stay alive. Their height means it is so cold it takes a lot of energy just to stay alive. They’re so far away it’s exhausting to get there and back. The mountains are very anodyne compared to the Alps. The on mountain restaurants are 2000 seater sheds with a load of fast food outlets which all taste the same and cost a fortune. On the other hand, some people like it so much they go there year after year...
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US is skiing used to be cheap now its VERY expensive... Resorts now charging nearly $1000 for a weeks lift pass
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Quote:
...just to stay alive


Yes its high - you might get headaches and a little bit breathless the first few days while you can acclimatise. Its not an expedition up everest though so no need to over dramatise it! The altitude is the reason its so snow sure (arapahoe basin usually opens in October!).

Quote:
US is skiing used to be cheap now its VERY expensive... Resorts now charging nearly $1000 for a weeks lift pass


Yes if you turn up and buy day tickets. If you're organised and buy a passes in advance can be far cheaper. For example Vail is $200 per day, but an epic pass for $800 gets you unlimited skiing there all season.
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@boarder2020, No, just knackered for 2 weeks. Took the fun out of it for me. My wife and I both got a lot of nosebleeds for the duration. It’s f@..ing high when you live 80 feet above sea level.

I haven’t been tempted to return!
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
I’ve not heard nosebleed being a reaction to altitude.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
abc wrote:
I’ve not heard nosebleed being a reaction to altitude.

It's very common, particularly in younger people who live at low altitude and only go high occasionally - i.e. a one week a year skiing holiday.

Caused by the cell walls in the nose being so thin that the internal blood pressure is too strong for the difference in air pressure at altitude and they burst. If you spend a lot of time at altitude, eventually the capillaries adapt and thicken and the nosebleeds stop.

I used to get them when I first started skiing but rarely get them now.
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Bigtipper wrote:
It was a long time ago, and recreational use of cannabis was illegal when I went. It is now legal in Colorado, so something to bear in mind if you take teenagers.


Cannaboids are almost a non issue. Yes they are legal but the trade is licensed and people are pretty respectful about consuming in private. So unless your kids are prone to hoovering up every brownie or riccola looking sweetie they see just lying around at stranger's houses.
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Ski the Net with snowHeads
Europe,
Quote:

everywhere is so damn expensive


Hmmm...While NY is by nature going to be more expensive, it can be mitigated e.g. Italy vs France. Is NA any cheaper? Queuing in an orderly fashion is only an issue if there's a queue, FRench lifties are very friendly if you address them as a French person would, politely, say "Bonjour" and smile. Otherwise you're justa surly tourist. A far more honest reaction than "have a nice day, all y'all".

But, variety, a chacun son, etc. We've had some great trips to NA but none of them predicated on having some poor minimum wage slave carrying my skis...
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 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Ah the age old

'I want to try this new, vegetarian restaurant but I want steak'

Outside of Whistler and Vail no N American resort will give you the variety of high mileage pisted terrain you're familiar with in Europe and enjoy skiing on.

However most N American resorts have more than enough piste from beginner to expert if you're prepared to repeat runs.

With typically better snow quality with more frequent top ups combined with typically better grooming and less traffic, the N American piste experience is more limited in scope but far superior in quality IMHO.

The same goes for Japan.

The marketing machine for both N America and Japan emphasises the powder, but most visitors spend their time on piste. If they didn't, the resorts wouldn't waste time and money grooming.

And both N America and Japan offer the perfect environment to transition from piste to off piste skiing, which once you 'put your toe in the water' significantly expands the skiable terrain overnight.

Embrace the differences and use a N American or Japanese holiday to expand your skiing horizons.

A holiday to Japan is expensive but more so because of the flight cost and the duration needed to get over the travel and enjoy it to the full.

The per diem rate is cheaper than most places in France, Switzerland and N America and comparable to Austria and Italy. You just have to do 10 days minimum.

My girlfriend flew Birmingham - Paris - Osaka - Sapporo for £450 return in January.

The day to day costs were very reasonable.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
How about doing Utah? As mentioned there are 6 good to near-great resorts within an hour or so of SLC. Alta/Snowbird not to be missed; Park City great for cruising; Brighton/Solitude good for a day; then you have Deer Valley to burn off those leftover dollars. You can stay in SLC for a reasonable price. Even if the snow isn't great, you'll have a lot of choices.

That would be my recommendation. However, Xmas/New Year's is always going to be a crap shoot for snow, whether you're in Europe or NA.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Just to put in my two penn’orth about some of the statements on here:
Our lift passes for Aspen next year are £267 pp for 9 days (one of the benefits of being old) Very Happy - adult is £467;
I’ve never encountered a quaint mountain restaurant in NA, but we don’t stop for a full-blown lunch so don’t care too much how they serve my hot chocolate;
The runs in NA tend to be shorter, but I don’t find it an issue to repeat runs (particularly when I’ve made a hash of them the first time). And if you are a fast cruising skier surely you must have to repeat runs - I think I ski relatively slowly (judging from the nutters who came whizzing past me in VDI/Tignes last week) but if I was so minded even I could get round the EK in a couple of days;
I like the on/off piste setup in NA;
Haven’t encountered a rude liftie in France for a few years now;
Like the efficient loading of lifts in NA with the possibility of using the singles queue on the rare occasion when there actually is a queue.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Having done Whistler back in 2006, the next season we went to Big White, an hour's flight inland from Vancouver. It's a great family resort and very snow-sure indeed (nearly 10 m cumulative this season with a 3.3 m base when they closed last week). Also not too high as to cause any issues with altitude and not too cold (probably averaging around -10C around new year). We liked it so much we bought a place there and been back every season since. It's much quieter than Whistler or Banff and lift queues are non-existent outside of peak holiday times, although New Year is relatively busy as it would be anywhere. As you like cruising blues and reds, Big White is superb for that kind of skiing. It really is an intermediate skiers paradise and plenty of challenging in-bounds terrain too for the more adventurous. There are plenty of other interesting resorts nearby too e.g. Silver Star, Sun Peaks etc. to consider if you were thinking of a dual mountain holiday.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Whitefish Mountain Resort, Montana fits the same bill as Big White.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Ive not been but I know someone that swears by Tahoe... Lots of variation, different resort each day and allegedly amazing views and riding... Its def on my list..
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Mike Pow wrote:
My girlfriend flew Birmingham - Paris - Osaka - Sapporo for £450 return in January.


Which took how long? 20ish hours each way?

I flew Birmingham - Geneva for about £75 return in January, about 1.5 hours each way.

That's it in a nutshell for me. I appreciate that some things may be slightly better in NA or Japan, but are they really THAT much better to justify the much longer and more expensive flights? I guess for some people they are, but for me I don't really see the point in travelling all that way for a ski holiday when we've got the Alps virtually on our doorstep. Puzzled
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
SlipnSlide wrote:
Mike Pow wrote:
My girlfriend flew Birmingham - Paris - Osaka - Sapporo for £450 return in January.


Which took how long? 20ish hours each way?

I flew Birmingham - Geneva for about £75 return in January, about 1.5 hours each way.

That's it in a nutshell for me. I appreciate that some things may be slightly better in NA or Japan, but are they really THAT much better to justify the much longer and more expensive flights? I guess for some people they are, but for me I don't really see the point in travelling all that way for a ski holiday when we've got the Alps virtually on our doorstep. Puzzled


Christmas 2017, no.

Chrstmas 2016, most definitely yes.

Unless you can leave at a moment's notice, then you're paying for consistency rather than praying for snow.

And certain resorts in Europe, N America and Japan are far more consistent than others.


Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Wed 18-04-18 21:18; edited 3 times in total
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SlipnSlide wrote:
Mike Pow wrote:
My girlfriend flew Birmingham - Paris - Osaka - Sapporo for £450 return in January.


Which took how long? 20ish hours each way?

I flew Birmingham - Geneva for about £75 return in January, about 1.5 hours each way.

That's it in a nutshell for me. I appreciate that some things may be slightly better in NA or Japan, but are they really THAT much better to justify the much longer and more expensive flights? I guess for some people they are, but for me I don't really see the point in travelling all that way for a ski holiday when we've got the Alps virtually on our doorstep. Puzzled


There are a lot of things I prefer about skiing in NA over Europe that make the extra travel worthwhile. They are quite different skiing experiences on the whole. Not saying one is necessarily better than the other, but they are certainly different and I simply prefer the NA experience (at least as far as Western Canada is concerned). I'm sure Japan is quite different again. If it was the other way round and the Alps were 10 hours away and BC was 1.5 hours away, I certainly wouldn't be travelling to the Alps for my skiing!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
@uktrailmonster, we get quite a few North American clients in Chamonix... some from e.g. BC, Utah, CO, etc.
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under a new name wrote:
@uktrailmonster, we get quite a few North American clients in Chamonix... some from e.g. BC, Utah, CO, etc.


Like I said, it's different, not better or worse for everyone. Also people sometimes like a change or happen to be there for all sorts of other reasons not related to skiing e.g. visiting relatives, work etc. I just happen to prefer NA skiing despite the travel inconvenience. If I didn't think it was worth it I simply wouldn't do it as I have no other reason to go to BC. I've also skied in many Euro resorts over the years before discovering BC and rarely felt a need to go back to any specific resort again. Canada on the other hand really did it for me and I was hooked after a first trip to Lake Louise in the mid 90s. I just like the general atmosphere, snow-sure conditions and terrain better than anywhere I've been in Europe - which was a real mixed bag for me.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
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@uktrailmonster, a chacun son gout.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
WARNING If considering Breckenridge for accommodation be aware that it is above 9,000ft. Many people including me suffer from altitude sickness if staying that high. I am OK skiing Breck but got sick staying there.

I am OK staying in Silverthorne/Dillon.

This Delta flight thing is strange. I met a Brit family last year that claimed to have flown direct in Feb. with Delta.
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We wanted to fly direct to SLC this year but when we booked in summer 2017 were told that the flight had been “withdrawn” - which implies that it maybe existed previously but not now.
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Vail seems to be 2500-3300m. Soldeu Andorra and Lake Louise Canada seem to be 2000-2500m, so yes it's a bit higher.

A cheap hotel family suite in Canada for 10 days cost me slightly less than a cheap 1-bed apartment in Andorra for 6, and was definitely a nicer place to be. Of course I paid plenty for the plane tickets to get there.

Cannabis shops have a very strict over-21 policy, no teenager will sneak in. They asked me for ID and I'm not far off 50!

My wife is from Asia so we don't baulk at 8 hour flights. In BA and KLM economy, the VOD was perfectly good enough (but do take your own headphones).
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 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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SlipnSlide wrote:
Mike Pow wrote:
My girlfriend flew Birmingham - Paris - Osaka - Sapporo for £450 return in January.


Which took how long? 20ish hours each way?

I flew Birmingham - Geneva for about £75 return in January, about 1.5 hours each way.

That's it in a nutshell for me. I appreciate that some things may be slightly better in NA or Japan, but are they really THAT much better to justify the much longer and more expensive flights? I guess for some people they are, but for me I don't really see the point in travelling all that way for a ski holiday when we've got the Alps virtually on our doorstep. Puzzled

More specifically, the OP had been once and wishes to go back. So clearly for him, North America is more than "slightly better "! Need to say more?
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Re : Banff st Christmas- just remember how much further North it is than European resorts- gets dark early. Be prepared for early finish.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
LaForet wrote:
How about aiming for something a bit different and combine skiing with something else? I'm thinking either (a) San Francisco for a few days then drive to Tahoe or (b) Swiss thermal spa resort combined with skiing.

Yes whenever we go to North America for skiing we try to combine skiing with something else. We've done Whistler with whale watching (March), Aspen with Las Vegas and Utah National parks (early December so parks aren't too cold) and this year we combined Park City with Mardi Gras (generally mid Feb for Mardi Gras as linked to Shrove Tuesday). As Mardi Gras is so busy you must book New Orleans hotel at least 1 year ahead. So already too late for next year.

Park City snow this year wasn't great and certainly not as good as Europe but that was balanced out with a USA road trip. Luckily I had also booked Tignes for early March so we still had lots of powder.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Western Canada has some excellent resorts in addition to Whistler that would fit the bill for you and your family - Big White (via Kelowna) and Banff/Lake Louise have already been mentioned but there is also Revelstoke (highest vertical in North America) which is ~2.5 hours drive from Kelowna and Sun Peaks near Kamloops.

Canada is much less expensive than USA and lower altitude makes for more comfortable skiing and sleeping.
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Levitt wrote:
Western Canada has some excellent resorts in addition to Whistler that would fit the bill for you and your family - Big White (via Kelowna) and Banff/Lake Louise have already been mentioned but there is also Revelstoke (highest vertical in North America) which is ~2.5 hours drive from Kelowna and Sun Peaks near Kamloops.

Canada is much less expensive than USA and lower altitude makes for more comfortable skiing and sleeping.


Would you really consider Revelstoke as a "family" resort? For me it would be a toss up between Big White, Silver Star and Sun Peaks for a family trip. If you went for a couple of weeks you could easily do 2 of those for variety. Banff is nice too, but much much colder around Christmas and probably less snow-sure. There is a huge difference in climate between Alberta and Interior BC.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
SlipnSlide wrote:
Mike Pow wrote:
My girlfriend flew Birmingham - Paris - Osaka - Sapporo for £450 return in January.


Which took how long? 20ish hours each way?

I flew Birmingham - Geneva for about £75 return in January, about 1.5 hours each way.

That's it in a nutshell for me. I appreciate that some things may be slightly better in NA or Japan, but are they really THAT much better to justify the much longer and more expensive flights? I guess for some people they are, but for me I don't really see the point in travelling all that way for a ski holiday when we've got the Alps virtually on our doorstep. Puzzled


Price isn't usually an issue with Canada/USA. I love North America and I love Europe and I normally take the cheaper option for the quality of holiday that I want. That means I'm usually travelling across the Atlantic.

This year we priced up Val d'Isere vs Whistler for late season skiing. A 2* hotel in Val cost more than twice a 5* hotel in Whistler which dwarfed the extra flight cost. Apart from the benefits of palatial rooms, ski in/out, ski valet, outdoor pool and hot tubs and a fabulous bar, the Whistler holiday was slightly cheaper all-in including passes, rental, food and flights. But in Val we'd have needed a guide to properly enjoy ourselves, which made France much, much more expensive. So we went to Whistler for 8 days instead of 6 in Val and still saved money.

Especially for families, North America can be a real bargain. Several resorts offer free skiing to kids up to 12 and many hotels have a kids stay/eat free policy.

But none of this helps the OP who knows that he prefers North America and that's his prerogative. For extensive piste skiing, there are probably only three options over there: Whistler, Vail and (at a push) Big Sky. Whistler and Vail enjoy direct flights and have similar transfer times. Big Sky is a pig to get to but well worth it when you arrive.

But, as others
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
I also ended up doing Park City and Tignes. PC at the end of Feb, luckily just after a reasonable amount of snow so locals were saying it was the best conditions of the season. And if you want properly groomed runs NA is definitely the place! We had a day off in the middle of the holiday to visit Salt Lake City.
Hadn’t planned to holiday in Europe this year but in the end I felt I didn’t want to miss out on the snowiest season in years, so booked a last minute trip in April to Tignes - great conditions again.
Love skiing in the US, and we tend to include different activities as well. The long trip and tussling with US immigration is not for the fainthearted though! (but once you’ve done it, makes the journey to Europe seem like a trip to the corner shop) Very Happy
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Usually I like to do Xmas in Colorado or New Mexico but last year I found the prices here high enough to sort of justify switching that trip to Italy. Lift tickets ok with some planning but on mountain accommodation and flights seemed way high to me.
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I learned to ski in Italy and then, once we moved to the U.S. I returned to Val Gardena once and then, skied exclusively in the U.S. from 16 to about 34-35 years old (All of Summit County, Winter Park, Vail, Heavenly, Squaw, Park City, Canyons with A-Basin as my favorite.) After that, we've started skiing only in Europe (Courmyauer, La Thuile, Pila, Obergurgl, Solden, La Tour/Vallorcine, Grand Montets, St Gervais). I can tell you that comparing the two, I would pick Europe every time.

1. Scenery scenery scenery
2. Vertical drops
3. Charm and history
4. Off piste is up to you
5. Tons above tree line (much lower in Europe)
6. Lessons much higher quality and private lessons are drastically cheaper than the U.S.
7. The food
8. Go at the right time and the lines are shorter
9. Did I mention the food?
10. If you do it right, the cost can be about the same from the U.S.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Quote:

8. Go at the right time and the lines are shorter

The OP is going Christmas. Is that the "right time"?
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No one ever accused me of excelling at reading comprehension.

Is it ever the right time at Christmas? Maybe somewhere a little less accessible and perhaps not as large is the way to go. I think of a place like Obergurgl (not necessarily recommending Obergurgl) as it has good early snow due to its altitude, a rather limited number of hotels which can minimize the number of skiers who visit and is preceded by a larger resort like Solden which is more likely to draw the crowds. That would be my approach - good high altitude and perhaps a little bit off the radar.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
I will be skiing Europe for the first time this coming January.
My family has skied in the US and Canada extensively in the last 7 years.
Now I don’t know if Europe is ‘better’ than North America for skiing but all I’ll say is that if skiing in Europe is as fun as skiing in North America we’ll have an awesome holiday.
I really can’t imagine having a better time than we have had the last few winters......
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
sbooker wrote:
I will be skiing Europe for the first time this coming January.
My family has skied in the US and Canada extensively in the last 7 years.
Now I don’t know if Europe is ‘better’ than North America for skiing but all I’ll say is that if skiing in Europe is as fun as skiing in North America we’ll have an awesome holiday.
I really can’t imagine having a better time than we have had the last few winters......


Where are you headed?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
I will be skiing Europe for the first time this coming January.
My family has skied in the US and Canada extensively in the last 7 years.
Now I don’t know if Europe is ‘better’ than North America for skiing but all I’ll say is that if skiing in Europe is as fun as skiing in North America we’ll have an awesome holiday.
I really can’t imagine having a better time than we have had the last few winters......
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Quote:
4. Off piste is up to you


Not really sure how this is better in europe? In n america there is lots of avy controlled off piste which is great for people that don't want to hire guide/carry equipment/worry about avalanches (this for a lot of people is the big advantage of n america). Then there is backcountry outside the boundaries which is up to you and seems to offer the same experience as Europe off piste.
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