 Poster: A snowHead
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@zikomo, you are misrepresenting my position. I didn't say no one should claim - I have no issue with anyone who is seriously out of pocket, without choice, doing so.
But really cheap flight prices have only arisen because in practice the budget airlines have not so far had to pay significant compensation payments, which can easily be 10 times what they receive in ticket sales for the flight.
If everyone claims simply because they are entitled to, even if they aren't out of pocket (and/or needlessly incurs additional expense simply because they know they can reclaim it), then it is inevitable that flight prices will increase for all. And in particular that won't help those who can least afford it.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Gazzza wrote: |
| Why? The delay compensation scheme is fixed and defined in EU law and is there specifically so passengers and airlines know in advance what the airlines must pay if their service is late. It's not new or some big surprise. Airlines have had to operate within this for years. |
Grrrrrrr . . . . . this is a bad weather delay. I really don't see why EJ should have a bunch of planes on standby in case on of their planes gets caught up in a weather related delay. This is an insurance issue not really incompetence by the supplier. EasyJet are well known for being a 'low frills' outfit and this means they need to keep costs well controlled - that's all costs including unnecessary claims. Evidence suggests the consumer prefers this approach compared to the higher cost option. We need to allow EJ to stay in that market and not allow unnecessary costs to flow through their business model. I'm not an expert but my take is that the EU regs are designed to cover delays where the operator has 'at fault' operational issues and weather is not one of them.
Weather is a 'by chance' problem and pooling of risk via and insurance policy is the way to cover the implications
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Two things that I think are a bit rough on the airlines:
1. According to the previous posts only flights directly affected by the weather can use it as a valid excuse. So, if a flight is late leaving London due to weather then it will be late arriving at its destination and the return flight is also delayed. That’s hardly the airline’s fault.
2. EU compensation is unrelated to ticket price, so a passenger might have paid £10 for a ticket and then be in line for a €250 payout for a four hour delay. In some situations that seems excessive.
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 You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| alti - dude wrote: |
| Gazzza wrote: |
| Why? The delay compensation scheme is fixed and defined in EU law and is there specifically so passengers and airlines know in advance what the airlines must pay if their service is late. It's not new or some big surprise. Airlines have had to operate within this for years. |
Grrrrrrr . . . . . this is a bad weather delay. I really don't see why EJ should have a bunch of planes on standby in case on of their planes gets caught up in a weather related delay. This is an insurance issue not really incompetence by the supplier. EasyJet are well known for being a 'low frills' outfit and this means they need to keep costs well controlled - that's all costs including unnecessary claims. Evidence suggests the consumer prefers this approach compared to the higher cost option. We need to allow EJ to stay in that market and not allow unnecessary costs to flow through their business model. I'm not an expert but my take is that the EU regs are designed to cover delays where the operator has 'at fault' operational issues and weather is not one of them.
Weather is a 'by chance' problem and pooling of risk via and insurance policy is the way to cover the implications |
Point is whether you see why or not the EU regulations are defined and the airlines have to operate within it. End of. So claiming against the airline is correct. One assume the airlines can buy insurance for their operations. If everyone claims against their travel insurance, travel insurance goes up - same difference.
As for inclement weather, it happens, and it's mostly not unexpected. Dealing with it MUST be part of their business model. If you operate an airline across the globe, or even even a half or a third or a quarter of it, you can almost guarantee at any given time there will some inclement weather somewhere. Likewise technical faults happen. Therefore you have to have standby crew and planes, and operations plans available to manage this.
Of course if just as you are about to take off a storm blows in and you can't, that is not the airlines fault, and indeed they wouldn't be liable to cough up.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| foxtrotzulu wrote: |
| 2. EU compensation is unrelated to ticket price, so a passenger might have paid £10 for a ticket and then be in line for a €250 payout for a four hour delay. In some situations that seems excessive. |
Yes reasonable point. It can seem high particularly on shorthaul fares. However I suppose the level of compensation is linked to what you might have to cough up for alternative travel arrangements.... And given airlines jack up their prices and sting people booking travel at short notice, then the level of compensation reflects that - it's a self fulfilling prophecy.
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 You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@ecureuil, No, I have carefully read your posts. You have not considered the perspective I gave, i.e. that it is those least able to afford alternative arrangements that suffer the most.
It is also complete and utter rubbish to suggest that "cheap flight prices have ONLY arisen because in practice the budget airlines have not so far had to pay significant compensation payments" (my emphasis). The budget airline model has many facets (including only operating one type of aircraft for example) that drives a lower fare. I suspect in fact that liability for compensation claims, even if all were paid, would be tiny fraction of the overall costs of operations for these carriers.
What is true is that everyone who is entitled were to claim then fares would rise, but by a tiny amount (as the cost of compensation would still be a tiny % of overall revenue). It's a very small issue compared to all the other costs of operating.
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@Gazzza, with respect I think you are looking at NetJet service at TescoBasic prices. I had a whole long weekend cancelled because of the weather - I accepted that going away skiing had weather risk with it so moved on very quickly and have travel insurance to cover non refundable costs - wasted day but that's like.
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| alti - dude wrote: |
| Gazzza wrote: |
| Why? The delay compensation scheme is fixed and defined in EU law and is there specifically so passengers and airlines know in advance what the airlines must pay if their service is late. It's not new or some big surprise. Airlines have had to operate within this for years. |
Grrrrrrr . . . . . this is a bad weather delay. I really don't see why EJ should have a bunch of planes on standby in case on of their planes gets caught up in a weather related delay. This is an insurance issue not really incompetence by the supplier. EasyJet are well known for being a 'low frills' outfit and this means they need to keep costs well controlled - that's all costs including unnecessary claims. Evidence suggests the consumer prefers this approach compared to the higher cost option. We need to allow EJ to stay in that market and not allow unnecessary costs to flow through their business model. I'm not an expert but my take is that the EU regs are designed to cover delays where the operator has 'at fault' operational issues and weather is not one of them.
Weather is a 'by chance' problem and pooling of risk via and insurance policy is the way to cover the implications |
Disagee
Easyjet plan on Flight A getting to Destination B
Using that plane to fly Flight B to Destination C
Because flight A couldn't take off due to weather & unable to complete its sector - how is that the passengers of flight B problem? why shouldn't flight B passengers get compensated?
The weather has not delayed the passengers on flight B. Afterall, planes have landed & taken off at the airport they are stuck at.
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 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| foxtrotzulu wrote: |
Two things that I think are a bit rough on the airlines:
1. According to the previous posts only flights directly affected by the weather can use it as a valid excuse. So, if a flight is late leaving London due to weather then it will be late arriving at its destination and the return flight is also delayed. That’s hardly the airline’s fault.
2. EU compensation is unrelated to ticket price, so a passenger might have paid £10 for a ticket and then be in line for a €250 payout for a four hour delay. In some situations that seems excessive. |
1. Not really - planes can fly faster than advertised. Ive had a delay of leaving 6 hours late & they got us back in just under 4 hours delayed. So knocked 2 hours off the delay.
The delay was a knock on delay, but also the added problem of crew rest - so no crew was available.
Ive also been on a RyanAir plane where a 1hr 15 flight took 25mins. as they needed the plane sharpish - so guess they calculated the extra fuel burned was cheaper than compensation!
2. the compensation is to the person is irrelevant of airfare.
You could be delayed flying from australia in 1st class & paying over £10k for a ticket.
You will get the same compensation as someone sitting in the cheap bucket seat who paid a 20th of the 1st class flyer.
So where do you draw the line? should airlines refund only a fixed % of the ticket price?
Nope - compensation is to compensate the passenger for delay. 250 euro for four hours of my time is cheap if you ask me.
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Wed 18-04-18 13:38; edited 1 time in total
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11 hour delay from Finland to Heathrow. No help from Crystal; just abandoned. Both airports were operating fine. Our plane had been diverted to France as an airport was shut there and they needed our plane. No apology from Thomson just an eff off. We instructed a no win no fee solicitor and got £800 and the solicitors got £400. My advice would be don’t even bother trying to sort it yourself.
This is the company we used: http://www.flightdelayrefunds.com/
If it's a £29 flight I would just suck it up, but we always have to travel in school holidays. Next years ski flights for example amount to nearly £1400.00, so I'm not inclined to shrug my shoulders and walk away.
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 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Rather than create a new thread, and I can't even tell if bad weather was the reason for the delay as Aer Lingus wouldn't tell me the reason, as thought this might be as good a place for this tale.
Last Christmas my mother was booked on an Aer Lingus flight (intra UK) which arrived late. I eventually got around to claiming directly with Aer Lingus under EC261 for a late arrival about mid year (you have 6 years to claim though) . They didn't reply for a while so chased. Eventually they denied the claim but wouldn't say what the reason for the delay was. I insisted they should state the reason but none was forthcoming. The pointed out you can appeal but gave the (templated) link to the Irish Aviation Authority. I then logged a claim via Revolver to the CAA (free and easy) which was denied procedurally as the CAA only consider claims lodged directly with them, not via intermediate sites. Lodging it with the CAA was pretty simple but as I was not the passenger I had to get a signed letter from my mother saying I could act on her behalf (the CAA first sent a link to a form but this was wrong, it needed to be a scanned letter sent to them.). Recently Aer Lingus sent an email saying they had "reconsidered" the claim and accept it was payable under EC261 and the money arrived a few days ago.
Result! So keep going all the way to the CAA if not statisfied, the airlines will likely deny it as a matter of course. All I can say is at least Aer Lingus didnt make something up to get out of it, they just denied the claim, indirectly lied but sorted in the end.
I am still none the wiser as what caused the delay . As it was the last flight of the day I suspect it suffered from knock on delays to earlier flights that aircraft made.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Quote: |
Nope - compensation is to compensate the passenger for delay. 250 euro for four hours of my time is cheap if you ask me.
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I agree. A couple years ago we missed a conecting flight from Munich due to our flight getting in late. The next flight got us in to Venice 5 hours late, well over the 3 hour limit. In that time the car hire company cancelled our hire car and said we should get a hotel in Venice for the night. It doesn't matter how much I paid for the ticket my excess costs are what matters. However, to simplify the matter the EU has decreed 250€ would be sufficient in all cases. It is also a deterrent to the airlines.
It took sometime to get the compensation off Lufthansa - they kept offering us half the amount, which of cause is illegal. Eventually, when I mentioned that I will be taking advice they coughed up. They still would't pay us in euros but converted it to pounds. Our expenses were in euros not pounds.
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My advice would be don’t even bother trying to sort it yourself
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It was actually quite straightforward to sort it ourselves. We just had to be persistent.
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Don’t waste money on solicitors or online companies who charge for getting compensation unless you absolutely have to. Money saving expert has templates and how-to guides for everything you need. I’ve used those twice in the past few years and in both cases it was all done and money in my account within a month with an absolute minimum of effort.
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