 Poster: A snowHead
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I am doing quite a bit more short tours now, with longer periods of skinning. I am really enjoying the whole experience of being away from the lifts, the scenery and the satisfaction of earning my turns. So far I have been using my regular ski clothing (Phenix trousers and ski jacket), which is sort of ok for a skin up of an hour or so but clearly not ideal. Especially as it is very difficult to regulate temperature. I have a pretty good ski set-up otherwise for what I am doing now (Volkl Katanas with Marker Baron bindings) which is OK weight-wise and great to ski. But now I think I really need to invest in a dedicated clothing outfit for my off-piste days and short tours in particular. So...
Can I please have recommendations for the best:
1. Trousers (shell) - preferably Gore-Tex as that is what I have faith in for other outdoor pursuits. Needs to have good ventilation, I run very hot.
2. Jacket, also a shell and also Gore-Tex
3. Layer for under the trousers
4. Lightweight and low volume (packed) mid-layer
Any other advice gratefully received, I am interested in what has worked for others.
Thanks
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@zikomo,
1/arctyrx .....beta ar
2/arctryx.......beta ar
3/icebreaker ... body fit zone leggings and long sleeved top
4/patagonia.......nano air
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@zikomo, if you run very hot then I’d strongly advise AGAINST goretex trousers for all but the worst conditions (when you may not be out touring in any case!) - you’ll sweat like a sweaty thing. Far better are softshell trousers (eg Patagonia Snowdrifter, but there are plenty of alternatives) - much more breathable and with a DWR coating they’re fairly moisture-resistant and great at snow-shedding. Icebreaker leggings underneath, or RAB powerstretch on a particularly cold day.
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Goretex kecks are fine provided they have good venting. I have had a pair of peak performance heli alpine pants (now just called “alpine”) which have covered freeriding and touring for a number of years now. Bomb proof and great venting. Also have a sale on now.
For jacket, I’d go with a lightweight packable Goretex thing and maybe some sort of v lightweight windproof layer for going up.
Pata nano air is awesome as a mid layer
For base layers consider mesh (acclima or brynje do them) if you’re a sweaty beast
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Just to add that there are some very lightweight touring shells around now. From personal experience these are probably ok for jackets (if you aren’t planning of skiing through pointy trees or dragging yourself over rocks) but aren’t really durable enough for kecks unless you are super careful with your kit
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I use a lightweight pair of shoftshell trousers and carry a pair of over trousers in case the weather turns crap. The trousers I use are Rab but their no longer made, the over trousers are Mountain equipment. For underneath I've a pair of three quarter length long johns but I hardly ever use them as it's a pain taking them off when I start getting to hot.
On top I wear a thin base layer, a Polartec 100 fleece plus a Rab Vapour lite vest and if needed a Mountain equipment Firefox jacket. I'm often stripped down to just the base layer when skinning. A floppy hat, a fleece hat and a helmet. Thin fleece gloves and ski gloves.
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It is very dependent on how hot you personally get and people vary a lot
I tend to wear something like @OwenM, describes.
I wear some mountain equipment touring pants that are hybrid construction - knees and seat and a few other bits are membrane (goretex alternative), other panels are non-membrane stretch. I have an arcteryx hybrid shell which is similar (waterproof on shoulders/sleeves but stretch softshell elsewhere). Generally I will wear only a merino top and merino boxers under that, possibly with a stretch fleece when leaving the hut in the morning and will carry a down layer for night time, windy summits, emergencies. If it rained for hours I would get wet but that is a bit unlikely at altitude.
Despite that, I do agree that goretex shells with long ventilation zips (legs and pits) are fine and more flexible for all round use.
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to add to the goretex non-goretex debate, I find neoshell to have amuch better air permeability than goretex but it is perfectly waterproof.
Having said that I have a goretex ski jacket and powershield pro trousers 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@Dabber, @Inboard, @Arno, @OwenM, @jedster, @Sack the Juggler, Thanks for the advice. Keep it coming!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Helps to weigh everything:
| Code: |
Qty Each Total Description Comments
0 3190 0 Clothes
1 354 354 Paclite jacket ME Firefly
1 242 242 Paclite trousers Sprayway Paclite Pant
1 238 238 Windshirt Rohan Windshadow
1 362 362 Primaloft jkt Rab Generator
1 248 248 thick fleece Mountain Hardwear Powerstretch
1 188 188 thin fleece Sprayway Crew Cut (grey)
1 218 218 Merino base Icebreaker Skin 200
1 240 240 black base Duofold black
1 540 540 trousers ME Liskamm
2 48 96 knickers
2 32 64 inner socks Bridgedale CoolMax
1 80 80 outer socks Smartwool
1 28 28 glove liner Decathlon silk
1 44 44 fleece gloves Salomon grey
1 98 98 over mitts NorthCape Milair
1 36 36 original buff blue
1 36 36 combi buff grey
1 78 78 sun hat flowery |
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You know it makes sense.
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Norrøna make a dedicated Lofoten line for touring. Very well cut but not the full length leg zips of the normal Lofoten. Far far lighter though.
Merino mesh base and super lightweight wind resistant mid. Swore by the Rab vapour rise lite: excellent all rounder.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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+1 for the Norrøna Lofoten.
I’m too just starting out with ski touring and also wanted a lighter outer shell for spring skiing.
Ended up getting the Lofoten Pro Light pants and Active Jacket in the sales at 50% off.
I too run very warm and I’m fine with just a merino base layer and a fleece down to -10C but always have a down/synthetic jacket in my pack for stops and breaks.
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Poster: A snowHead
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There is lots of expensive kit out there.
I went to decathlon and am happy with:
A) softshell alpinism pant (can't find link)
B) hardshell full length zip pant to go over if inclement. Note their sizing is small for this item so go a size larger. https://www.decathlon.fr/surpant-alpinism-man-gris-id_8331170.html
C) a soft shell ski jacket from a high street store
D) a light shell (decathlon) for when it's needed.
B and D live in my pack. Also picked up some soft shell cross country gloves and a light puffa that also goes in my pack.
I like the decathlon kit. Well made, good designs and very well priced. I know others disagree.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Decathlon make great touring trousers. Many people here in France use them and they are great value.
Personally I have lightweight decathlon shell trousers, combo of merino layering depending on the temperature and a very lightweight Mountain Hardwear non goretex shell.
I think goretex is overrated. If it’s raining hard it will leak; nothing stays dry in heavy rain so why waste your money. Also, if rain is in the forecast why are you going touring?
Now as for the OP’s ski and binding choice. A full rockered ski for touring? And so wide! And the Barons, so heavy! Makes for quite a workout.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@ChrisKernow, +1 and also @zzz, +1 re goretex and touring in heavy rain
Though @zikomo, you don't actually mention what weather / type of touring you're doing as clothing and gear for cold powder condition vs classic spring touring are totally different, though caveat being as I type this it's very wet and dank out there +5 and we have the luxury of choosing when to go up (so not today), but if you're on a weeks trip then often that is not the case.
If I had to go up today then light shells would be the order of the day with merino underneath, but I do think people over complicate / over think gear
All my tech gear is biased to cold weather and in the spring it's great just to wear light stretchy soft shell pants with nigh on full length leg zips and T shirts and I often pack / wear a cycling jacket if there's chill breeze and always have a down jacket in the pack should something happen.
And as has been mentioned, number one piece of touring kit, Buff !!!
I must dig out a picture of the hut guardian that came up with us on a day last year, looks like he'd just come from Sadlers Wells 
And if touring in Spring try and stay away from black and wear bright clothing as black just soaks the sun
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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As @Weathercam, said, where and when you go touring is probably the biggest consideration. I certainly wouldn’t be that bold ⬆️ in Norway, regardless of the time of year!
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@Weathercam, @Spoon, @altis, @altis, @BobinCH, Thanks for all the advice, very useful!
To add some detail about what I need to cover:
1. I live in Scotland and am starting to tour a bit locally - hence the need for waterproofs! I have faith in Gore-Tex as I spend an inordinate amount of time in all seasons outdoors (including long days) and high end Gore-Tex stuff has always kept me dry, and never let me down.
2. In winter I ski a fair bit in Switzerland where I am doing more side country type activity. Maybe skinning 45 - 90 mins at a time in search of powder. I have been using my regular alpine gear but find it is simply not adaptable enough (especially lack of venting) for the climbs. So I need something that would cover skiing deep powder, but with good ventilation.
3. An April trip to Switzerland has become established, where I am mostly doing day long tours sometimes with an overnight stay in a hut (but not yet hut to hut). I absolutely baked last year in my regular kit.
So it looks to me that the Arcteryx beta ar trousers with lightweight long johns (which I already have), plus a pair for thicker/ warmer fleece trousers (which I also already have) for colder conditions is a good option. Will also look at the Norrona gear (had not heard of this before!).
The beta ar jacket also looks good, combined with a lightweight merino base layer (already have), heavier merino base as an option for colder days, softshell jacket (I already have a goretex windstopper one) and some sort of mid layer (the patagonia nano air perhaps) would cover most eventualities.
Would the combined wisdom agree? Any other brands/models for the shells that anyone would recommend I have a look at?
I should say I am very lucky that cost is not really an issue for me, and anyway I have always benefitted from buying good quality kit in terms of longevity.
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@zzz, I agree, I need to commit to a dedicated touring ski at some point. Actually the bindings are Market F12, the combined weight is really quite manageable as the Katanas are so light, quite a good set uo for the sort of side country stuff I am mostly doing as a great set up for the downhill. But I get its not ideal as I progress to longer tours....so thats a whole other, fun, kit investigation for me over the coming year or so!
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@zikomo, as you live in Scotland you're probably aware of Paramo - not the best looking of designs but they work so well, I use the Quito jacket but know they now have a few others like this
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@Weathercam, In the fishing world we have an expression for people like me (and sounds like you too!), "tackle tart" - i.e. simply unable to resist the temptation lol
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@Weathercam, that's a steel.
I'll get me coat................
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@zikomo, for sure (gear junkie etc) and I know I'm not the only one on here, but by excuse is that I wear the stuff pretty well every day, well obviously not all the jackets at the same time
Positively puking down at the moment, see link below.
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+1 for Paramo in Scotland.
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You know it makes sense.
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| zikomo wrote: |
@Weathercam, @Spoon, @altis, @altis, @BobinCH, Thanks for all the advice, very useful!
To add some detail about what I need to cover:
1. I live in Scotland and am starting to tour a bit locally - hence the need for waterproofs! I have faith in Gore-Tex as I spend an inordinate amount of time in all seasons outdoors (including long days) and high end Gore-Tex stuff has always kept me dry, and never let me down. |
Do you already own a Goretex jacket or trousers? If so why not just use what you use in Scotland for ski touring. Most climbing/hiking/mountaineering clothing is the same as what most people would use for ski touring.
I would also second the opinions above that softshells are far more comfortable and durable (and cheaper) for active use. I would always carry lightweight waterproof shells but only put it on if it is actually raining!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Ski touring requires a higher work rate than with most other mountain activities. It’s generally undertaken in a colder environment too.
High perspiration and lots of insulation are not good friends of Goretex. So use with caution.
I have a Paclite jacket and trousers in case it’s really persisting down but I’ll avoid using them if I can. In fact, I don’t think I’ve ever used the trousers touring and I can’t remember when I last used the jacket. My Rohan Windshadow has a DWR so gets most use.
If I were doing lots of touring in Scotland though I’d definitely head towards Paramo because of the damp climate.
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Poster: A snowHead
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@Mosha Marc, jacket arrived today - really good quality gear, most impressed!!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| zikomo wrote: |
3. An April trip to Switzerland has become established, where I am mostly doing day long tours sometimes with an overnight stay in a hut (but not yet hut to hut). I absolutely baked last year in my regular kit. |
Having gone through Mammut, Haglofs and Norrona Lyngen and the Lofoten ranges... Norrona Lofoten Pro is my gear of choice for everything now. It’s bombproof, feels and looks great and the full venting means it still works great in April until, well undressing is the only option... 😱😱😱
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Was thinking about this thread when I got back today from touring - last three days we've had good spring touring conditions, though today there was a chilly breeze and net result, the top 600m of a 1,300m climb and snow had not transformed, and did not look like it was ever going to!
Anyway three days in a row and sweating like a pig with big salt stains on my trousers and stinking a wee bit, so they're in the washing machine. Trousers I wear in Spring are not tech though they have light wind stopper material, Mountain Equipment Tour pant, and I probably wash them ten or more times in the Spring
Thing is if you're wearing uber expensive technical pants and you tour on a regular / daily basis then how often do you wash your beloved tech clothing?
Tech jackets are not an issue as soon as you get warm they're in the back pack but trousers??????
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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1. Sweet Protection Supernaut R
2. Arcteryx Rush shell
3. Odlo ¾ Evolution Warm
4. Arcteryx Atom LT
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| zikomo wrote: |
1. I live in Scotland and am starting to tour a bit locally - hence the need for waterproofs! I have faith in Gore-Tex as I spend an inordinate amount of time in all seasons outdoors (including long days) and high end Gore-Tex stuff has always kept me dry, and never let me down.
2. In winter I ski a fair bit in Switzerland where I am doing more side country type activity. Maybe skinning 45 - 90 mins at a time in search of powder. I have been using my regular alpine gear but find it is simply not adaptable enough (especially lack of venting) for the climbs. So I need something that would cover skiing deep powder, but with good ventilation.
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Then I would definitely recommend going with a full Gore-Tex setup - but make sure that the venting is there. I recommended the Supernaut R salopettes particularly since you can unzip the entire length of the leg. However, they're fully water and windproof for when you need that too. I do a similar profile to you - in Switzerland - but also go heli skiing in Canada. Have found the Supernaut's by far the best salopettes I've ever used.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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... and Sportpursuit have them ...
Here
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@BobinCH, @Weathercam, @Blackblade, You guys are awesome, thanks for the advice. Will have a look at final options tomorrow.
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Not sure if any interest whatsoever, but I’ve got some green supernaut pants in medium for sale. Still with label, turned out having a baby is bad for the male figure too! I’ve replaced them with large size, and others have said, great pants (my wife is in the ladies and loves hers too!).
PM me if any interest, but if not then sorry for derailing the thread!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| zikomo wrote: |
| @BobinCH, @Weathercam, @Blackblade, You guys are awesome, thanks for the advice. Will have a look at final options tomorrow. |
Well, hope it’s useful and you find the right setup. Let us know what you go for and how it works out.
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Goretex has a higher waterproof rating than most waterproof fabrics but the water eventually works it's way in through the seams and pockets not the fabric itself. For Scotland you are probably better off with a jacket that has pocket and zip flaps to prevent the Ingress of water.
Once sweaty in goretex I stay wet, with eVent I eventually dry out.
Unless it's windy or raining a long sleeve merino layer under a softshell gillet works better than a waterproof shell.
Also prefer softshell trousers to goretex unless it's really warm.
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FAQ
