 Poster: A snowHead
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This is a live temperature link from the peaks above Zermatt, so it probably won't show the same temperatures when you click on it, but at the time of typing (10.15am London time) it showed:
Gornergrat (3100m) temperature 0C
Rothorn (3103m) (a nearby peak) temperature -7C
Can anyone with any meteo knowledge explain this seemingly extraordinary difference for two peaks at the same altitude?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Do you think it could be down to something as simple as cloud cover on one peak?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I wonder. Another interesting aspect of it is that the village itself (1600m) also shows a 0C temperature at the time of typing, equal to a point 1400m above it. But we know all about temperature inversions. The thing is, aren't temperature inversions normally experienced in clear weather - today, Zermatt is cloudy after very heavy snowfall.
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David Goldsmith, as you know, I am a well-known meteorological expert (for expert read bullshitter). As a scientist, the most usual cause of crazy results is crazy intruments. So first suggestion is check the thermometers. If equipment OK then is it set up correctly: shade vs sun, bunsen burner under one, etc.). If none of these, maybe results are correct, so now comes the cowdoo. I note in the table that wind is shown. It is blowing in different directions over Schwarzsee (zero) to Trockener Steg and Klein Matterhorn (-9) (I conveniently forget the odd wind speed data). No wind data for Rothorn. Wodja think?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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The web cam shows it to be cloudy in the town and night time somewhere in the mountains. Maybe this has something to do with the temperature. Or maybe its sunny in one place and not in another.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Unfortunately, the normally very reliable Rothorn webcam isn't online, otherwise we could test davidof's theory. As for wind, Jonpim, that's an interesting one. As I say, Gornergrat and Rothorn are (I think) no more than a couple of miles apart as the crow flies, so I'd be surprised if this was a factor.
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Meteorological thermometers should not be influenced by direct sunlight or by wind. Have to assume therefore that one of the instruments is either not functioning correctly or the report from that is inaccurate (wrong therm. being reported etc.). As temperature is supposed to drop 1C for every 100m vertical I would assume that the -7C is likely to be the more accurate.
Anyway it's purely accademic as we can't get near for another season. Only sad people keep watching snow reports after the end of the season. Lots of us about though!!
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David Goldsmith, I always thought that temperature inversions were in cloudy weather. Isn't it the cloud that keeps the heat in?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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The temperature on Gornergrat has now (11.34am) dropped 7 degrees and Rothorn has risen 1 degree!
Gornergrat -7C
Rothorn -6C
Mountains certainly are wild places, and this seems to suggest that the instruments were not malfunctioning earlier (they are Swiss, after all!). I reckon davidof's cloud theory was the right one.
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Elizabeth B, I don't know. Maybe we can search some links. I said that because the most stunning temperature inversion I ever saw was in Austria in Leogang, over the back of Saalbach, in clear weather.
Leogang was like a sink of very cold temperatures, with amazing growth of hoar frost on the local village slopes (huge ice crystals, apparently propogated overnight), while the mountain above was quite mild in comparison.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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(This was a response to the point about thermometers being affected by wind)
That's not quite true, a Stevenson screen restricts the wind to a maximum of 7knots (I think). Not sure that that would cause such a difference, though - it shouldn't.
(This the rest)
I would check the instruments, but as they now look about right, it could have been anomalies - maybe one was being worked on?
Or you may have witnessed a transition. Wind direction could be a clue as it may have indicated the transition of a front (though 7 degress would be some front) or the movemennt of some localised air mass from warmer/cooler areas over one or other of the sites.
Finally, I notice that (currently) the reported times for the temperatures are different, so we're not quite comparing like with like.
However, I'd still go with an instrument anomaly.
Last edited by snowHeads are a friendly bunch. on Thu 6-05-04 11:45; edited 1 time in total
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Temperature inversions are caused by cold air being trapped at valley bottom. How can that be an issue with the temperatures on two peaks? They should be similar if at the same height.
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No David Goldsmith, I have it on good authority that Lifty just moved his coffee mug.
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You know it makes sense.
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