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Is carving more tiring than skidding?

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Just been skiing with a friend. I try to use both my edges, bend my knees and carve every turn I make. He just stands pretty much upright on both skis and skids left and right turns down the hill, and has done so for years.

I ask him, why don't you try using your edges for once? He says it's too tiring!

Admittedly, my thighs are burning and my knees ache after a day's carving. Sure it could be the fact that I am not as fit as I could be, but is carving really more tiring that skidding? Yes, I get down the hill faster than he does, but we're just out having a holiday and not racing - so sometimes I question what the point is in working my edges?
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No.
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No.
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And thrice no. Very Happy
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I'm no expert, but it could be that if he tried to go as fast as you he would be aching to bits. Alternatively, you need to use more lean to achieve your carved turns rather than your knees or there is something else to address.
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It is and it isn't. On chopped up snow carving through it takes a lot less energy and having your skis kicked around over mounds of snow. Typically though you can be pulling from around 1.4g upwards which really takes it out of your legs and why skiing racing skis all day it a workout.

I carve on groomed piste and there are plenty of people skidding that get down quicker than I do carving on slalom skis. The point is that it is much much more fun!
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I hate to be contrary, but yes. If you carve well. The forces you generate can give you quite a beating.
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FlyingStantoni, +1 from me. If I've had a long day there's a reason my survival skiing isn't carving perfect arcs Laughing
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Most situations, no.
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yes from me too. ok so riding your edges on almost flat green runs isn't tiring and carving on steeper runs also isn't too tiring if you have no fear and don't have people/objects to avoid. however, carving on steep slopes will cause you to go frikken fast if you don't put a bit of effort in. i can do skiddy noodle turns all day

maybe i just suck?
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depends if you're pushing it or not.
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Thanks for the opinions. I feel that when I'm carving, I'm pulling more g's that when I'm skidding, so therefore it's like I'm carrying around another small person on my shoulders and therefore working harder. But when I'm carving, I do go quicker than when I'm skidding, so perhaps if I skidded at the same speed, would I pull the same g force? I also get down the slope quicker when carving, so spending less time actually working out, so for the same length of slope, maybe the higher work rate for a shorter time would be balanced out by the lower work rate for a longer time?

So many calculations and not enough of a brain to work it out! Puzzled
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Yep from me - when I'm knackered its easy to stand up and do lazy skids (not that most of my "scarves" are pure anyway). Bad skids can be knackering however if you're desperately clawing for control and you're not enjoying the mechanical efficency built into the ski.

So basically it depends.
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 You know it makes sense.
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was away last week skiing and tried to carve more and i found it more tiring than my old skidding.
good fun but it's certainly more effort. however that is probably cause i am crap more than anything else
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From a boarder's perspective, YES.

Skidding is the lazy easy way around. Carving generates G-Force and is just as you say... heavier on the legs.
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 Poster: A snowHead
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mugen wrote:
was away last week skiing and tried to carve more and i found it more tiring than my old skidding.
good fun but it's certainly more effort. however that is probably cause i am crap more than anything else



now I agree with that sentiment
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I think it depends on quite a few factors. For sure it's less effort to skid your way lazily down a steep slope than pure carve, which can take quite some effort, especially at speed with short radius turns. But on a lesser slope, carving large radius turns is a breeze and way faster/more fun than skidding. Probably less effort too in that situation.
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Whitegold wrote:
Most situations, no.


+1

I'm fat and lazy.... If I can try and carve I will... It is normaly the most efficient way down the hill....
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rob@rar, I'd say yes

FlyingStantoni, I'd agree

point in question, TOH had her slightly tired FIS SLs properly serviced on Saturday night. On Saturday I skied on them, as we were doing som etesting and comparison. Edges completely crap. carving of any real sort tricky.

Sunday, it was clear that Roger the Cabin Boy had not done the tuning, they'd been done well proper. They weren't excessively hard work, just harder work in the conditions we were experiencing than mine. (firm pistes, icy patches, relatively busy)

i.e. sure, easy to hang out on and carve, but harder work when you had to skid - and that's what we were doing most of the time
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Carving allows you to go further, faster on any given piste so presumably you dissipate more of your energy through air resistance. Having recently acquired a pair of out and out carving skis to go with my Missions I now see it is a lot less effort to do faster larger arcs on the Missions.
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I know for a fact in flat light I skid my turns more to scrubb off speed... after an hour of this I'm ready for a tea break... if the vis is good I ski more on my edges and can manage 2 hours before I need a cup of tea...
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When your givin it some carving down a steep gradient your gonna burn.. embrace the pain and scream your love for the mountain.... man!

Carving down a blue aint gonna hurt as it offers no resistance, you don't have to fight to control your speed!
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Doesn't the effect on your legs also depend (on a given piste, with one man carving and another skidding) on your point of balance. Someone getting their weight really well over their feet will presumably get less tired than someone sitting back even slightly?

The other thing is that even if both get to the bottom of the hill at the same time, the carver might have covered four times as much ground. I noticed this a few years ago, skiing with my son and a 19 year old French guy. They were both good skiers, and tended to get to the bottom at the same time (and long before I did) but Nick, carving down, had covered far more ground at a much higher average speed than the French guy, in borrowed rear entry boots and borrowed huge skis, who did that "ancien regime" French bum wiggle wedel thing straight down the middle.
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My 2p's worth is that if your weight is too far back and your legs are aching then you will not be carving the skis as there will be insufficent weight to properly engage the tips, but then it depend on what you call carving Wink
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weeeman wrote:
When your givin it some carving down a steep gradient your gonna burn.. embrace the pain and scream your love for the mountain.... man!



Don't forget.
That pain is just weakness leaving your body Toofy Grin
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On a shallow slope carving is much less tiring. On a steep slope it is much more tiring as your muscles need to work hard holding the edges precisely whilst dealing with big Gs.
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Based on people's responses, it's obviously quite individual. My own opinion isn't much different. wink

IMHO the answer is "it's not quite that simple". For me, in very slow speeds I find that edging the skis requires more effort since I don't have the Gs to balance. In medium speeds carving wins, since I can use the Gs to keep me upright while edging. This is true for high speeds as well, whereas in a very steep black I need to start skidding to keep my speed safe and it's then that I start feeling my thighs working. So IMHO skidding is almost always more tiring.

However, I feel that carving requires more control and is therefore harder to achieve if my legs are already tired.
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slikedges wrote:
On a shallow slope carving is much less tiring. On a steep slope it is much more tiring as your muscles need to work hard holding the edges precisely whilst dealing with big Gs.

That's the key point. On gentle slopes I find it much easier to stand on my edges and just roll from turn to turn. Although I ski a bit more quickly when carving, therefore higher forces involved, it is still a more efficient way for me to ski. But on steeper slopes, red pistes and steeper, who is going to be carving? I very rarely do as it's difficult, hard work and requires quiet slopes if you're on anything with a larger turning radius than a slalom ski. I see very, very few people carving on this kind of terrain, so for me the question should be "is it more efficient to carve or skid your turns on gentle slopes (because on steeper slopes we're all going to be skidding the majority of our turns in some way or other)?"
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Last week I found carving down blues and reds less work than skid turns, and was faster down the pistes.
However, down blacks I did prefer skid turns to help reduce my speed.

Discalimer: I do NOT class myself as a good skier. Only ever had 2x 4days of lessons and the rest is self taught.
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Ignoring the carving versus skidding for a moment. You mentioned your friend is more upright, it may simply be your sitting too far back which would make your thighs burn whether carving or skidding.


Edit - must read whole thread, that's been said before Embarassed
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 Poster: A snowHead
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nessy, what carvers did you get? I'm considering getting carvers to go with my missions.
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Why bother turning at all, skidded or carved ? When the snow's nice and sugary on a perfect late Spring morning, you can descend like a feather on a top to bottom of the mountain sideslip with absolutely no effort at all, occasionally switching through 180 degrees to get a different view of your surroundings. On a steep red / gentle black gradient slope, you can certainly keep up with most of the others doing this and it helps out the pisteurs too by flattening out all the nasty lumps and bumps left behind by the turners. snowHead
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moffatross, how fast can you sideslip down a slope? Can you really achieve 40km/h+ going down sideways?

Maybe we need a new thread titled 'How fast has your GPS clocked you at sideslipping down a mountain?' Smile
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charlichoo wrote:
Last week I found carving down blues and reds less work than skid turns, and was faster down the pistes.
However, down blacks I did prefer skid turns to help reduce my speed.

Discalimer: I do NOT class myself as a good skier. Only ever had 2x 4days of lessons and the rest is self taught.


Unless you're a natural, I doubt that you're carving. Sorry.


Carving is much easier than skidding. It's both fast and almost effortless when you're doing it at tourist speeds. You can tell when you're carving, because you can do it just as fast off piste as on.
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Quote:

How fast has your GPS clocked you at sideslipping down a mountain?

My son was out with his instructor flat mate and his mates, on their day off, and faced with a hugely icy and steep slope in Val D'Isere. They did just that - told him to side slip the whole thing, fast, till he found some decent snow. He said they went down, side-slipping, at an astonishing speed and he took a deep breath and followed suit, telling himself not to lose his nerve or it would all end in tears.
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bum, I said 'most of the others'. Laughing

Do you think the majority of people on steep runs are moving down the fall line at anywhere close to 40 kph + ? Many of them are out of their depth, a lot of the ones that aren't are waiting for their pals who are out of their depth and those who aren't are often negotiating their way around those who are waiting for their pals and those that are out of their depth. The ones that are out of their depth may well be the ones moving fastest of all, i.e. head-first without their skis so maybe they're actually reaching 40 kph + down the fall-line at times Toofy Grin

I reckon that on a steepish busy piste and on sugary snow, it's no problem to sideslip on skis at around a metre to two of vertical per second. So if you're on say a 25 to 30 degree slope, your fall-line velocity will approach 2 or 3 metres per second, i.e. around jogging pace. I wouldn't want to be anywhere near a piste that's got some tadger looking at their GPS to time themselves side slipping, scarving or sliding in some other way under the illusion that they're doing it as fast as they can and in control. There's too much risk of going down at faster than 40 kph on a medic's sledge. Skullie
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pam w, he'd have to have had some faith in his pal for that. Very Happy In Scotland, we would do that often on steep, narrow twisty bits of ice and neve between the rocks but faced with a long 30 to 40 degree slope like it, I'd look for crampons. Toofy Grin
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you can sideslip very fast indeed

... if you're shane mcconkey on an alaskan face wearing water skis:


http://youtube.com/v/QbdkPH88yZI

(starts about 35 secs in)
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Nice Video - Nice AC/DC track.....
At first I thought they had taped me in the chalet "hey kids lets go skiing" then I realised it was only Homer - D'oh..rolling eyes
Laughing Laughing

Noisey
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Arno, First time I saw that power sideslip was on the big screen at a Banff Mtn Film festival night. I think everyone either gasped or burst out laughing and even for someone who saw Star Wars as a kid, I think it is the single coolest cinema moment I've experienced.

Back to the regular programme, I'd still say carving even on a gentle slope requires some basic muscular form and input while you can basically skid standing up, fiddling with gloves, doing crossword etc.
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