Skiers skiing faster, often too fast

A snowHead

So we are out and about for the week in Monterosa and we have all noticed, more than previously, the numbers of skiers skiing too fast for their ability.

The 3 of us have all skied extensively for >40 years each. We have a reasonable idea of what we speak. We all ski fast, and in the old days would have been in the upper echelons of speed.

This morning I was passed by someone, barely in control, as i was going at a fair lick. The difference being that I could stop within my visual limits. He would not have been able to.

My brother observed that many of them do not appear to be engaged with their skis, the skis doing all the work.

Discuss.

A snowHead

That's technology for you....gives people a confidence beyond their ability.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

@under a new name, ....oi uanm...you’ve just hijacked the ‘dangerous straightlining’ thread....ah...maybe they weren’t straightlining......

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The “GnarBuG, Gnarly But Gnice” mob are there this week....maybe someone we know?

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Only ever seen some plonkers on the Pistone Betta/Betta 1 sections.
Usually youngsters and what look to be teenagers with mini-skis!
Moos (or Nera and Olen) tends to get the more skilful and slightly accomplished speeders (rather like Mrs Skimastaaah and my good self). But generally I've found Monterosa much less busy than a lot of other resorts and therefore tends to have less plonker speeders.

However, I have also found St Manton plagued by go-faster-plonkerettes, especially on Piste 2, Piste 17, and Stupid Valley.

Perhaps the younger skiers rely too much on ski-ing gear rather than ski-ing skill to get down the mountain. Hence "dis-engaged" with their skis. HeyHoh...... the youth of today!!!

*sits back ........* Toofy Grin

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@under a new name, sounds like sour grapes that you can't hack it with the young 'uns anymore. Move over grandad.

Laughing

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

don't think its a new trend. there have always been inexperienced mostly male 15-25 y/o skiers that ski way out of their skill zone. i saw 2 guys on the solaise red run in Val D (notoriously busy and fairly narrow on the section i saw them on) They straightlined until they fell over (which was about 5 times each in 400m) Got up laughing every time and went again. It's just a matter of time before these clowns injure themselves. Unfortunately often its someone else they injure.

After all it is free

@under a new name, we were out there at Feb half term, (thanks for the tip btw, glowing TR to come) and observed a couple of things: that our peak speeds were way higher than they had been at New Year in Saalbach, much more variable gradient terrain perhaps with more likelihood of misjudging how much speed you'll pick up? Then we both noticed that the overall standard of skier was a lot lower than we'd seen in Austria.

Neither of these explains why anything's changed since last year. Loads of Swedes when we were there, blame them.

@Layne, nope.

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Simone Origone for sure....

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My observations at the PreBB in the Dolomites (of all people there, not snowheads in particular):

- People going too fast, evidently not in control, exhibiting poor technique... clearly unable to stop in time if necessary, relying on clear piste.
- People trying to emulate race technique, really badly. Leaning over a long way whilst clearly being in the back seat, etc.
- People with no spatial awareness, not looking when joining the pistes, stopping in the middle, existing in their own world and that world only.

I think a common problem with skiing is people get a few lessons then they take the 'comes with practice' approach from there. They get faster and they interpret going faster as a sign of technical improvement. They continue to ski fast on the basis that their assumed technical improvement gives them the confidence that they have the skill required to ski at that speed.

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Layne,

I started a similar thread a couple of years ago and I received an identical response to yours above. I can't recall if it was you, or not, but there can't be many serious Snowheads who would reply in such a P155 taking manner.

Don't you think reckless skiing is a problem these days? Shocked

It ain't gonna change. Avoid pistes. If you are skiing pistes stick to the margins where the mentals don't go and keep your head on a swivel. Shoulder check before any wide turns to check for a mental.

You know it makes sense.

My point is not that there are mentals, but that there are way more of them than, say, 10 years ago, travelling way faster...

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

So what else has changed in the past ten years? Because I don't believe that people in general have.

A snowHead

A snowHead

new in the last years are GPS apps that give top speed and videos of guys on fat skis straightening steeps. Coincidence that all the yoots want to hit a >100k ?

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

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Ski holidays more widely accessible nowadays maybe? Lower costs/easier holidays --> More people --> More people out of control?

So maybe the proportion of out of control skiers hasn't increased, but the absolute number has?

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

if this is a concern, maybe you need to plan where and when you ski to best avoid this type of skier.

Is there a good case to going on more reds and blacks, which tend to be less crowded and less suited to straight line blasting?

As a regular visitor to the Meribel area, I think the area below the Rond Point is potentially lethal after 15.00 because of the diverse range of abilities of the skiers returning to base, particularly if they have been to the Folies Douce or Ronnie. Interestingly, on a recent trip to Ischgl it was clear that they wanted you off the mountain while still sober and clearly preferred you to drink in town.

The ski app issue is not just about recording a maximum speed, but also a distance on the day, so there may be a pressure to clock up the miles.

As well as ski apps, I think some of the problems are the unintended consequences of faster lifts, for a given time, more people are on the slopes than on the lifts, and more people come out in waves at the top.

Finally, I really wonder how many people on the slopes have any awareness of the FIS code, let alone pay any attention to it.

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You’ve basically just described my husband when we first got together. I never knew if he was going to be alive when I got to the bottom of a run. The moment we got back from that first holiday together I booked him into dry slope lessons. I told him I couldn’t ski with him again if he didn’t learn to ski properly. He had no idea that he wasn’t!

Just our 9 year old son to sort out now! His ability definitely does not match the speed he try’s to go at.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

The equipment has changed, less skill is required to go much faster than 30-40 years ago.

http://youtube.com/v/y8iukJojlAc

http://youtube.com/v/Jrom1-_ULAo

Both the skier and snowboarder in this Clip have very little control

http://youtube.com/v/-CsPmWz7JSQ

After all it is free

That second one was simply the most retarded crash I've ever seen. Skier for standing still in the middle of the piste not paying any attention to what's coming down... and snowboarder for... well... just seeing the crash coming from half a mile away and going through with it anyway!!! Shocked

The third one I've seen before... obviously somebody thought it'd be a good idea to just straight line into a group of people, what could go wrong Puzzled

My daughter is going on Bristol Uni Ski trip with 2000 people and for the reasons in this thread I'm terrified! She is a slow but competent skier, but if ever there was a trip that was going to fill the slopes with idiots it's something like this!

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The debate on whether we are innately selfish has been going on since the dawn of time.

It's very doubtful - assuming the problem even exists - the reason is that we are becoming more selfish.

I suppose societies can evolve that quickly, but biology can't. It's more likely that you're just turning into old people.

Do you have any actual evidence? It sounds somewhat unlikely. Anecdotes win elections and destroy economies, but they don't substitute for evidence.

You know it makes sense.

I have not noticed more out of control skiers or crashes, but what I have noticed is...snowboarders causing crashes. One numbnuts hit my 9 year old daughter, who is a good skier, a few weeks ago in Val G., didn't even stop. He's lucky I didn't see it, or there would have been one fewer snowboarder on the slopes. And don't get me started on the whole sitting in middle of the piste thing.

I try to keep an open mind and remind myself that snowboarders have paid for the same lift tickets, but why do so many have to act like idiots? Kind of like Audi drivers, only a little offense intended....

Interestingly, I think it was far easier to go fast on straight skies than on short floppy supershaped skis that most beginnners rent now.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

@Pasigal, as someone who skis and boards it's interesting how my perspective changes. On a board I'm more aware of skiers who are out of control and vice-versa on skis.

Certainly worth everyone IMO having a switch for a day or so as you do get a whole new understanding of why skiers/boarders turn or may turn

A snowHead

A snowHead

@Boris, I know that, just being a bit grumpy. I do know how to board well enough to know that there are some control limitations, at least for non-experts. It's much easier to see where you are as a skier. I also know that snowboarding on a hard packed piste is tough going. To be honest it's not fun at all for me.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

The data from US ski areas for both fatalities and serious injuries (neither of which is particularly likely, compared to other risks people regularly face) are easy to google.

They are kind of bumpy, probably because the risks are so low. However the 10 year rate looks to have trended downwards, not up.
Possibly that's because as the demographic ages, they ride slower. And complain more.

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So... thinking about this and taking@philwig’s comment on board, with apologies to Layne for not taking his comment seriously enough...

There may be an element of age related criticism. Possible. I don’t think so. But I have no data. I’ll see what I can find.

However, this season I have skied Chamonix valley most weekends (first was Dec 10 I think), Grand Massif, where I have noticed this for years, Courmayeur a few days, PdS and Monterosa.

The factor linking “bad” skiing is areas or resorts that would “naturally” score highly on a factor of “good for intermediates”...

It’s not so apparent in Cham, but Grand Massif I find that I want to at least be side piste to reduce external risk.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

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I suspect its also because a lot of kids see videos of brilliant freeriders just straightlining down an empty mountain and they want to emulate it, but try to do it on a piste because they are not good enough to go off piste.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

[quote="rob@rar"][quote="DB"]. My judgement on that is somewhat skewed by me being a better skier and having a better eye for good & bad skiers (which might account for uann's perception?), wink

[/quote
and maybe when you were younger (and less able) you were the person that seems to inflame the ire on this thread ...I'm pretty sure i could have a fairly good guess at the average age of most of the participants.

After all it is free

@Super Steezy, as a relatively young skier, I am not entirely inclined to agree.

There are A LOT of young, over-confident skiers on the mountain who have little sense of responsibility who ski dangerously because they're immature, irresponsible, and probably not as good as they think they are.

However, in my experience, it is the middle age to older skier who's far more likely to (a) stop in the middle of the piste around a blind bend and believe that they have some sort of righteous entitlement to be there and for others to ski around them; and (b) ski with shoddy technique under poor control that they have no interest in correcting because they've been doing it for 20 years and it's never gone wrong before (much).

It's easy to blame all dangerous skiing/boarding on young care-free 'dudes' trying to impress the girls and/or each other... and there's definitely many solid cases of that. But assuming that dangerous skiing is exclusive to them is inaccurate. The kids are probably dangerous due to their disproportionate confidence, lack of sense of responsibility, and lack of attention to what's going on... but the older generation can be just as dangerous through a sense of time-served entitlement; a belief that they've not had an accident in 20 years (of which they've probably skied no more than 20 weeks) so therefore are personally immune; or frankly, like I said, just through having sh*te technique that they have no interest in correcting.

The more I ski the more I realise how bad I used to be. Skiing an odd sport, unless you're actually racing you're mostly judging your own abilities against how you used to be. So a 3-week skier can think himself quite competent because he's a lot better tha he was on last year's holiday. Another factor is that often the only way to find your limits is to exceed them. I'll deliberately go fast on a tricky run just to push myself and develop my skills. I only do this with an empty piste and a clear run out but learning to cope with high speeds is an essential part of learning to ski. As a boring old 50 year old I'm happy to get my speed kicks early in the morning and then throttle back when the crowds appear, but that's got to be harder for the youngsters. Can't get first lift when you've been drinking all night!

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DP I'm pretty sure this thread was rattling on about people skiing at speed with no discernible control, you have just listed the more obvious fails of the elder skier and by your own rational not likely to be hooning about at high speed.
This thread needs to be renamed " no one can ski but me"

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Skiers skiing faster, often too fast

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