 Poster: A snowHead
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The Times
Couple die together on frozen mountain
By Ben Hoyle and Edward Owen in Madrid
article from the Times
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Tue 21-02-06 15:52; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I know they weren't skiing but it shows how dangerous the mountains are..........
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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It shows that good preparation and the right equipment are vital.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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People with children need to take more care of themselves :/
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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We will never know why they decied to leave the refuge, after making contact with the Mountain Rescue, but it seems a fatal error.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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magriggs, sorry, but I disagree strongly.
Giving life to another does mean responsibility as they rely on you, but it doesn't mean you have to put your own life on hold!
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I seem to recall that a load of pensioners froze to death in the same area last year. I think they were French or Spanish so it probably didn't make the British news.
I'm not sure, reading the article, that they were in "a refuge" but probably had found something less comfortable. In Europe, once the alarm is raised, it probably makes sense to stay put if possible.
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| davidof wrote: |
| In Europe, once the alarm is raised, it probably makes sense to stay put if possible. |
Good advice for anywhere really.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| davidof wrote: |
| I seem to recall that a load of pensioners froze to death in the same area last year. |
That's nowt, we can do that to them in nursing homes over here. 
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AFAIK there is one number to call in Spain for English speaking assistance for any emergency situation (902 102 112)-prefixes may vary. Its a Police service, so I cannot understand why they felt the need to call the UK to raise the alarm.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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snowbunny, from any mobile anywhere you can ring 112 AFAIK. The operate control rooms which can connect you as required.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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ise,
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snowbunny, from any mobile anywhere you can ring 112 AFAIK. The operate control rooms which can connect you as required.
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Thanks, I'm relieved that I had remembered the number correctly. It is a service well geared up for tourists in trouble, so I'm still puzzled as to why they did not use it. It cost them time, which clearly they did not have to spare.
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You know it makes sense.
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Perhaps they didn't have enough training to know they should stay put. clearly they didn't know about the 112 number. Whatever, a salutory lesson for all mountain users.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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It did say in the article that the man was an experienced mountain walker, so you wonder what went wrong.  I wonder if they were already suffering from hypothermia when they were in the shelter, which often leads to people making suboptimal decisions in times of crisis, and has lead to deaths in the past.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Kramer that was my first thought too. I made an emergency bivi in the highlands once when a blizzard closed in on me. Probably poor decision making earlier in the day but I was on a point to point walk so turnaround wasn't necessarily the right option. Fortunately I had bivi bag, down jacket, extra trousers, headlamp and a six pack of mars bars so had a fairly comfortable night. Beautiful walk the next morning at dawn in about a foot of fresh so actually I count it as a privilege. Sadly it doesn't always work out for everyone - how many people carry survival bags/blankets etc on offpiste excursions especially in teh Alps where the wrong gully can easiliy leave you stranded?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I carry a survival bag with me all the time when I'm skiing, also some chocolate and an extra fleece, extra hat, and various other things, usually a drink as well. I grew up mucking around on Dartmoor, and it was always ingrained into us that you always had to keep the possibility that you might have to spend the night up there in the back of your mind.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Kramer, I've tried drumming that into my kids for years: hopefully one day it will sink in, but not the hard way.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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To be honest, when I'm skiing it's not so much about having to spend a night on the mountain, but either getting stuck on a lift for a period of time, or to help someone (hopefully not me) who is injured and so losing heat by being still for a long period of time. If the worst came to the worst then I reckon I could spend an uncomfortable night if I really had to.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| marc gledhill wrote: |
magriggs, sorry, but I disagree strongly.
Giving life to another does mean responsibility as they rely on you, but it doesn't mean you have to put your own life on hold! |
Where did I say that they have to put their life on hold? You're putting words in my mouth.
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Dartmoor is pretty notorious for people getting lost, because although it's not that high, the weather changes extremely quickly. I think that many people get lulled into a false sense of security because it's very easy to get to.
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| Kramer wrote: |
| Dartmoor is pretty notorious for people getting lost, because although it's not that high, the weather changes extremely quickly. I think that many people get lulled into a false sense of security because it's very easy to get to. |
Any featureless moor land is the same, I used to be in mountain rescue which means mostly finding them 
About 10 years ago backpacking in the Lakes I was stunned by how many people were lost, over half I'd say had no real idea where they were or where they'd just come from. For myself I'm obsessive about knowing where I am down a square metre or so.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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ise,
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For myself I'm obsessive about knowing where I am down a square metre or so.
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Yet you say that you can't follow a piste map, so how do you do it
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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" For myself I'm obsessive about knowing where I am down a square metre or so."
I took a hillwalking course a few years back. The first 'walk' lasted about 15 minutes, after which we were all asked "do you know where you are"?. We all had maps... and were challenged to point to our location thereon.
All those who used their finger were failed immediately....
... and of the small handful who'd used something more appropriate, 1 (out of a total group of about 30), could point to _exactly_ where we were (this in a decent OS map).
sobering faces all round - we could still see the farmhouse we'd just left, yet most of us (not totally stupid people), even with good visual aids, still couldn't identify where on a well produced map we were.
Needless to say we paid much more attention to the instructor after that little demo.
seems to have been a particularly bad weekend last weekend, what with the various avalanche deaths, as well as this. At least we still have a choice what risks to take.....
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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... whereas on the London underground I consult the map a dozen times between each station
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You know it makes sense.
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| hamilton wrote: |
... and of the small handful who'd used something more appropriate, 1 (out of a total group of about 30), could point to _exactly_ where we were (this in a decent OS map).
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It's just the way some people are mentally wired I think, I personally love maps, looking at a decent map tells a fantastic story about the shape of slopes and hills and where I can ski or ride my bike. For others they just see a jumble of symbols
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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ise, I'm just the same! At the risk of being labelled sexist, I think it's a male propensity. Maybe a fixation with the lie of the land goes back to our 'hunter' role in hunter-gatherer societies.
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Poster: A snowHead
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laundryman, You're clearly all cave men at heart 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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snowbunny, but maps are nice and highly sophisticated  I find piste "maps" deeply distressing because they don't have contour lines...
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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laundryman, you mean the women didn't need a sense of direction when doing all the work in the fields, collecting water etc, while the chaps sat back in the caves being looked after, occasionally venturing out to spear a passing critter to keep their reputations up?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Can I join the club - I love maps - have lots of atlases at home and whenever I go somewhere in the UK I try to buy an OS map for it.
p.s. and I'm female
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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snowbunny, and with all that gossiping on Après, you're clearly a cave-woman at heart! Touché!
Seriously, there have been about 300,000 generations since men (and women) diverged from chimps, of which no more than about 500 (less in almost all instances) lived in settled communities. Therefore, our innate propensities are pretty much determined by whatever fitted our ancestors to survive and breed in hunter-gatherer society.
mountain mad, good for you!
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| Quote: |
| Can I join the club - I love maps |
Must be all those pretty colours...
[rapid exit]
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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snowbunny, only if there's no brown sauce.
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