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Winter Tyres

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Forgive my ignorance.I have 2WD front wheel drive car. If I get winter tyres, why not just get two for the front driving wheels instead of 4? Or am I missing something? (hides waiting for the abuse to start).
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
The worst idea ever. Google. Or use search function on here
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@jonnyboy9, Very, very bad idea.
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jonnyboy9 wrote:
Forgive my ignorance.I have 2WD front wheel drive car. If I get winter tyres, why not just get two for the front driving wheels instead of 4? Or am I missing something? (hides waiting for the abuse to start).


Think of this. If you have good grip you will turn, but the back end will spin round as if you had pulled the hand break on.


http://youtube.com/v/8cBSWEhimdA
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Winter tyres are as much for stopping as they are for getting going. With more grip on the front when you attempt to stop on a slippery surface front and back end will try and swap ends. Snow chains naturally keep your speed down and thus make it easier to stop.
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jonnyboy9, Very bad idea as mentioned, obviously not a driver wink
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@jonnyboy9 Good question, and you've been told.
And I excuse your ignorance anyone could ask that.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
I've just put 5 of 'em on the bus . . . more than doubling what it's worth rolling eyes But I'm heading up to Fernie tonight so I'm pretty sure they'll get put to the test Smile
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It'e an eminently reasonable question by the OP and if you're not familiar with the technology, it might seem logical. You will find another thread on this site where someone actually argues that 'they've never had any problems' using 2 winter + 2 summer tyres.

But you should always have all 4 tyres the same i.e. all four summer / all-season / winter.

As you've seen in the video, once you're on slush or snow, and even in just cold and wet, you should have all 4 as winters. Winter tyres have not only an 'invisible' difference in rubber compound (designed to work well in colder conditions) but also a very different tread and sipe design. Sipes are the very small grooves in the larger blocks of tread, and serve two functions. First, the make the tread squirm more, and so warm up faster. Second, they help trap snow on the tyre's surface and as you know from making a snowball, snow clings well to snow, so this helps adhesion as well.

Winter tyres are also more resistant to aquaplaning in heavy rain and standing water. So again, you don't want to be in a winter rainstorm and have your 2 summer tyres significantly poorer in terms of water dispersal.
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LaForet wrote:
It'e an eminently reasonable question by the OP and if you're not familiar with the technology, it might seem logical.


If you have a FWD car then you should be aware that advise is usually to have best tyres on the rear so that you don't lose the back end (most people panic with oversteer and lift off, so makes sense to have the best grip on the rear). Same obviously would apply for winter tyres but you also need grip on the front so that you don't slide backwards, ergo decent tyres all round.

Obviously some people will have driven well without a full set of winters, others will have not bothered with winter tyres at all.
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 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
People who drive well in snow without winter tyres are very lucky. If you're feeling that lucky, go to the bookies or buy a lottery ticket .you will then certainly win enough to afford 4 winter tyres.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Thanks to mooney, foxtrot & bones for once again proving that many forget their manners once let loose online - and real thanks to everyone else for gently putting me right. Very Happy
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
@jonnyboy9, good online manners could also be understood as extending to use of forum search tools...this question has been debated ad nauseam on this forum.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@jonnyboy9, I don’t think they were unnecessarily rude.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
jonnyboy9 wrote:
Forgive my ignorance.I have 2WD front wheel drive car. If I get winter tyres, why not just get two for the front driving wheels instead of 4? Or am I missing something? (hides waiting for the abuse to start).


If you want a car that will handle like a shopping trolley on slippy surfaces then go right ahead. When replacing the front winter tyres I always put the new tyres onthe back for this reason.
If you lose traction on the front while ascending you can always get out and put snow chains on. If you lose traction on the back at speed you might not get out in one piece. Many fatal winter crashes occur when the car spins on ice at speed.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
But if you need snowchains or socks as well then you can get away with just doing the 2 front as far as I am aware. (Winter tyres do not negate the need for these in the appropriate conditions btw.)
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Yes, all four tyres. BUT when I first encountered snow tyres - asking a French garage in Sallanches - it was suggested to me just to have them on the front (driving) wheels. So I did, being ignorant, and having been perfickly happy to pay for 4 tyres. Then I did lose the back end of the car on a very gentle junction, going very slowly. Nothing dreadful happened - there was space for me to steer into the skid and big piles of snow (from the ploughs) both sides of the road. I was lucky.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
I wouldn't drive with only two winter tyres on European roads but you can get away with it in the UK. That's because here all the other drivers will only be doing 20mph (or less) in the snow and at those speeds you are unlikely to lose the back end. In the video the car with the Michelin tyres is going faster than that and so inevitably the back end comes out.

This is my first winter in 17 years where I have actually fitted 4 winter tyres and it is definitely better than 2. Fewer concerns about losing the back end and also the handbrake now holds better on snowy hills, so that's a benefit !
If you can only afford two tyres thats better than none, but you will need to keep your speed down into corners and not get too confident Laughing
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And I think its illegal in many countries to mix tyres even on different axles. You may be invalidating your insurance. Be safe fit 4.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
On the FWD we put new studded tyres on the front each year and last years studded fronts on the back.
Never had any issues driving 100+ days on snow each winter.
On the private snow covered roads where we live, we enjoy letting the back end get a bit loose, controlled hand-brake corners, drifts, opposite lock etc..
When on the public roads, we are naturally a bit more restrained, but never had an issue running new studs on the driven wheels, and a bit less grippy on the back - I guess its what you're used to.
Though I would not run studs and summers - that IS asking for trouble.
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Peter S wrote:
I wouldn't drive with only two winter tyres on European roads but you can get away with it in the UK. That's because here all the other drivers will only be doing 20mph (or less) in the snow and at those speeds you are unlikely to lose the back end. In the video the car with the Michelin tyres is going faster than that and so inevitably the back end comes out.

This is my first winter in 17 years where I have actually fitted 4 winter tyres and it is definitely better than 2. Fewer concerns about losing the back end and also the handbrake now holds better on snowy hills, so that's a benefit !
If you can only afford two tyres thats better than none, but you will need to keep your speed down into corners and not get too confident


rolling eyes Shocked and if you can not afford new brake pads when replacing half of it is also better than none?
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Thanks Inboard, SnoodlesMcFlude, Smile the wink should have confirmed it was a bit tongue in cheek and after all the OP was expecting some abuse wink I really inferred that 'drivers' tend to favour RWD - the OP obviously jumped to something else Toofy Grin

jonnyboy9 wrote:
Forgive my ignorance. I have 2WD front wheel drive car. If I get winter tyres, why not just get two for the front driving wheels instead of 4? Or am I missing something? (hides waiting for the abuse to start).


I would suspect your insurance would be invalid in the event of any accident, as not have equipment fitted as per instructions - mixing tyres. This would not only cause significant risk to yourself and passengers but probably other road users as well.
Mixing different compounds of rubber can have serious detrimental effects.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-west-wales-42917101

who needs tyres?
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Madeye-Smiley
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I am happy abot my 4 new Continental TS 860!
It is snowing and minus 5 degrees when we go down on the motorway. And soon we will sing:

"Fahr , fahr auf der Autobahn......"

until or overnight stop in Annecy 14 hours later.
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 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@pam w, perhaps they didn't specify a spare when they bought the car!
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
OK, yesterday on Rt.93 N above the Ca/USA border, 55mph on a snowy road keeping a good following distance, car in front starts to fishtail, bounces off the 'armco' and spins . . . and keeps spinning Shocked Sheer luck keeps it on the road, I brake, a lot harder than I want to and nothing . . . I just slow without issue. . . the pickup behind me slides past with all wheels pulsing off the abs . . . mine didn't even activate.

The car that crashed was on 'all season' tyres, the pickup was on M&S . . . I put pucka (cheapo Firestoneso at that) "snow" tyres on the van. Gave the driver a lift to the next town and made it to Fernie in good time.

I'll never use anything else EVER AGAIN in winter and I'm not even using the best rated tyre. The difference in performance is really quite astonishing Shocked
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Update: we've been through a thaw/freeze cycle and now fresh snow. This morning on polished ice the abs did rattle away a few times but never in a situation that put me at risk and I'm driving at roughly 75% of normal behaviour. This afternoon, backing out of quite steep parking lot it just crawled back up the hill . . . I really am quite astonished by the grip. This afternoon, during the snowfall I could drive pretty much as on a dry road Shocked
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
foxtrotzulu wrote:
@jonnyboy9, Very, very bad idea.


@jonnyboy9
Quote:

Thanks to mooney, foxtrot & bones for once again proving that many forget their manners once let loose online


@jonnyboy9, Granted I could have added more explanation but the topic has been, and is still being, covered ad nauseam and I didn't have time for a fuller explanation. To be frank, I half thought it was just a wind-up anyway. Either way, I really don't think I was ill-mannered.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
And make sure you clear the snow from your roofs as well: Alpine police can be quite hot on drivers who are considered dangerous, although this example is a bit extreme - 1600 Kgs of snow gradually falling-off a coach roof as it drove along (about 40cms thick).

https://www.lenouvelliste.ch/articles/suisse/soleure-un-car-suedois-arrete-avec-1600-kg-de-neige-sur-le-toit-733861?image=1
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
LaForet wrote:
And make sure you clear the snow from your roofs as well: Alpine police can be quite hot on drivers who are considered dangerous, although this example is a bit extreme - 1600 Kgs of snow gradually falling-off a coach roof as it drove along (about 40cms thick).

https://www.lenouvelliste.ch/articles/suisse/soleure-un-car-suedois-arrete-avec-1600-kg-de-neige-sur-le-toit-733861?image=1


THIS big time.

One of the few things that really drives me mad is ignorant funny fellows not clearing snow of the roof - where do you think it's going to slide too?! If you're too small/old/lazy to clear it all off don't drive 'til it's melted.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
It's usually SUVs who don't sweep the roof. Utter cuntryfolk.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
FFS! A Swedish coach, no less! Swedes really ought to know better. It's not like they've never seen snow before. ...and they have laws against this sort of stupidity in Sweden too!
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Out of curiosity, how do you clear snow off a coach roof?
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
@Dave of the Marmottes, for the record I take a broom with us so I can clear it off the top of Disco AND roofbox.

I likewise get cross at the people who CBA
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@foxtrotzulu,

Get up on the roof and start shoveling (or use a brush). Should be routine for a Swedish coach driver.

...and in case someone is actually wondering what the fuss is all about, this clip shows what a fairly small amount of snow can cause:


http://youtube.com/v/ah9pyrNvkqY
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@foxtrotzulu, drive under a bridge which only has 3" clearance.
Best check the rear-view mirror first though.
Anyone driving too close will be in for a surprise Smile

Actually it can be pretty difficult even on a transfer van if you do not have anything with a long handle.
I got stopped at the Swiss border once, and started having a go at it with the jack handle, as that was the longest thing that came to hand.
When the guards had moved onto somebody else, I went on my way, and finished the job off with a jet wash at Balexert .

After that I carried a telescopic handled scraper, but the other trick was to turn the heater up to elevnty-stupid, and use the jet wash in St Jean to loosen the slab around the edges, then drive out of the jet wash and turn hard left in the car park, and normally the slab would slide gracefully off onto the ground at the edge of the car park.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
I've had 4 bone-fide winter tyres (not all season) on my car for many years and have never once regretted it. As Auntie Masque notes once you see the increased grip that you get you won't regret the purchase. There is a video somewhere on You Tube which shows the difference in a car climbing an indoor snow slope with and without them - if you can find it, I guarantee that you'll believe 4 winter tyres are a worthwhile purchase. Sometimes it is also not just what you will find in resort when you arrive, but also what you might on the road getting down to the Alps - there are higher parts that you drive over, and these can often exhibit rather 'choice' conditions when it starts to snow hard.
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iSnowhead wrote:
I've had 4 bone-fide winter tyres (not all season) on my car for many years and have never once regretted it. As Auntie Masque notes once you see the increased grip that you get you won't regret the purchase. There is a video somewhere on You Tube which shows the difference in a car climbing an indoor snow slope with and without them - if you can find it, I guarantee that you'll believe 4 winter tyres are a worthwhile purchase. Sometimes it is also not just what you will find in resort when you arrive, but also what you might on the road getting down to the Alps - there are higher parts that you drive over, and these can often exhibit rather 'choice' conditions when it starts to snow hard.


and here's the video:

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/66692/winter-tyres-4x4-grip-test-video

(although they are testing an AWD, not really a proper 4x4, but its best not to get into that debate).
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@SkiingDad, I wasn’t disputing the need to clear the roof of a coach, but I thought it might well be quite difficult and dangerous for your typical 25 stone coach driver to climb onto the roof of his/her vehicle. No obvious ladder and you’d be walking on a high-gloss ice covered surface. Are you sure you ‘get up on the roof?’

@WindOfChange, I like your thinking!
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