Ski Club 2.0 Home
Snow Reports
FAQFAQ

Mail for help.Help!!

Log in to snowHeads to make it MUCH better! Registration's totally free, of course, and makes snowHeads easier to use and to understand, gives better searching, filtering etc. as well as access to 'members only' forums, discounts and deals that U don't even know exist as a 'guest' user. (btw. 50,000+ snowHeads already know all this, making snowHeads the biggest, most active community of snow-heads in the UK, so you'll be in good company)..... When you register, you get our free weekly(-ish) snow report by email. It's rather good and not made up by tourist offices (or people that love the tourist office and want to marry it either)... We don't share your email address with anyone and we never send out any of those cheesy 'message from our partners' emails either. Anyway, snowHeads really is MUCH better when you're logged in - not least because you get to post your own messages complaining about things that annoy you like perhaps this banner which, incidentally, disappears when you log in :-)
Username:-
 Password:
Remember me:
durr, I forgot...
Or: Register
(to be a proper snow-head, all official-like!)

Doorstep skiing - what does it mean?

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Not sure this is the right place or if it should be "chalets and apartments" but here goes.

If a chalet is described as offering “Skiing to and from the doorstep” and “skiing is literally to and from the door” do you think that is the same as another chalet which is described as having “doorstep skiing” and “a great location just next to the slopes which means that you can put your skis on in the mornings and ski directly down to the lifts”? In fact the first chalet is genuinely ski-in ski-out, the second chalet is not.

The natural and obvious meaning of the words “doorstep skiing” is that in normal conditions it is possible to put your skis on within two or three metres of the door and ski to or even on the piste. It never occurred to me that it could mean anything else until I arrived at a chalet advertised as having “doorstep skiing” to find that it was necessary to carry my skis down a long flight of steps, possibly snow covered, and then negotiate a narrow sloping path between trees before putting skis on.

Some tour operators appear to me to be making misleading statements like the above and trying to cover themselves by hiding a definition of their misleading statements deep in the small print of their T&C.

The tour operator’s definition of doorstep skiing is “being possible to ski to/from a point within 50m of that property”. Another well-known TO uses 100m.

Lesson learned: read the T&C before booking, but I wish TOs would realise that they are more likely to have loyal and satisfied customers if they provide honest descriptions that can be understood without recourse to the dictionary hidden in the T&C.

Any other snowheads been caught out like this?
ski holidays
 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
I just carefully study the piste map and google maps to see where the accommodation is with respect to pistes and lifts.
snow report
 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Yup, always worth doing a bit of due diligence before you sign on the dotted line. If it’s a popular resort it’s worth asking on here too.
ski holidays
 You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
Walking and carrying skis is an important skill to learn, and a good warm up before skiing.
snow report
 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
What @Themasterpiece, said!
latest report
 You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
queen bodecia wrote:
Walking and carrying skis is an important skill to learn, and a good warm up before skiing.
I just prefer a metre to a kilometre myself. Smile
snow report
 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@king key, there can't be many places where walking a kilometre would be necessary, surely you would use the ski bus or a car in those instances.
latest report
 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
I have done in the past (read cheap) but more choosy/sensible nowadays. What can better than true ski in/ski out?
snow report
 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
@king key, I guess I'm not fussed about it. I prefer not to ski the same area each day but go to many different ski areas on the same lift pass whether by driving or using busses and a bit of a walk. If you have doorstep skiing you are faced with the same in and out route every day.
snow conditions
 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
queen bodecia wrote:
Walking and carrying skis is an important skill to learn, and a good warm up before skiing.


Perhaps, but I've learned how to carry skis (even two pairs) and I prefer to warm up while skiing. I also feel much more at risk of falling without skis on attached to my boots.
snow conditions
 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Our trip next week will be our first ski in/ski out. In L2A we had a 5 minute walk. Not too bad, as it was on the flat. In Monty, it was more like 15 but down/up some rather icy hills. It was ok in the morning, as suggested a nice warm up but after a day skiing the trek back up hill was a killer. Especially carting the gear.

This year we are right on the piste. A nice little blue down into La Plagne centre. Can't wait to step out the door, strap the planks on and get going.
ski holidays
 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Fridge03 wrote:
Our trip next week will be our first ski in/ski out. In L2A we had a 5 minute walk. Not too bad, as it was on the flat. In Monty, it was more like 15 but down/up some rather icy hills. It was ok in the morning, as suggested a nice warm up but after a day skiing the trek back up hill was a killer. Especially carting the gear.

This year we are right on the piste. A nice little blue down into La Plagne centre. Can't wait to step out the door, strap the planks on and get going.


Where abouts are you staying? Just back from a week in Plagne Village, which was quite literally step onto skis outside the door (after climbing the snow steps due to the ridiculous amounts that have come down in last couple of weeks!) snowHead
snow report
 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
N0rthernMonkey wrote:
Fridge03 wrote:
Our trip next week will be our first ski in/ski out. In L2A we had a 5 minute walk. Not too bad, as it was on the flat. In Monty, it was more like 15 but down/up some rather icy hills. It was ok in the morning, as suggested a nice warm up but after a day skiing the trek back up hill was a killer. Especially carting the gear.

This year we are right on the piste. A nice little blue down into La Plagne centre. Can't wait to step out the door, strap the planks on and get going.


Where abouts are you staying? Just back from a week in Plagne Village, which was quite literally step onto skis outside the door (after climbing the snow steps due to the ridiculous amounts that have come down in last couple of weeks!) snowHead


Chalet Bon Vie with Ice and Fire.
snow report
 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
queen bodecia wrote:
@king key, I guess I'm not fussed about it. I prefer not to ski the same area each day but go to many different ski areas on the same lift pass whether by driving or using busses and a bit of a walk. If you have doorstep skiing you are faced with the same in and out route every day.
If you are staying in a ski in/out property surely you have the same option to drive to another ski area as anyone else with a car, regardless of proximity of a piste to your doorstep? My apartment in Les Arcs is ski in/out providing access to 450km of slopes from the entrance to our sk locker room, but I can also drive to La Rosiere (and ski across to Italy), St Foy, Tignes and Val d’Isere within an hour (although not today, given key roads are closed because of snow!); and to Courchevel, Meribel and Val Thorens in a little bit more than an hour. Some people may value ski in/out very highly, others less so, but other than cost is it a bad thing?

As for what constitutes doorstep skiing, I think buyer beware applies, so as others have said, try to work out exact location via Google Maps as well as asking the specific question about how far to the piste.
ski holidays
 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@rob@rar, We're leaving St Foy about t-time today (to Geneva) - what roads are closed? Ta.
snow report
 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@martinm, the road up to Val / Tignes was closed this morning, but I think that is above the turn off for St Foy. The road up to Arc 2000 was also closed first thing this morning, but that won't affect you. TomTom traffic not showing any significant delays in the Tarentaise at the moment and the traffic cams showing light traffic moving freely.
latest report
 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Cheers Rob. Chucking it down all day. I stayed in - mate and his boys went out but they're experts and into off-piste!
snow report
 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@rob@rar, yes I get that. It just baffles me that people consider it a priority. It shuts off a whole load of lovely accommodation options, just because people can't face walking a few metres or catching a bus.
snow report
 You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
queen bodecia wrote:
@rob@rar, yes I get that. It just baffles me that people consider it a priority.
For me it's a big priority. Walking is not too big a deal providing it's a reasonable distance, and I don't mind driving (although if you have to pay to park that begins to make an expensive week). But I hate catching a bus to go skiing with a passion, and it baffles me that people are prepared to put up with it wink
latest report
 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
It can be tricky though. Our appartment, you can ski directly from the back if there is snow. Normally that means from xmas to around March. But it does vary of course. Also, you have to be a reasonably good skier as there is a narrow and steep little bit onto the pistes by the Oxalys.

If those don't apply then it is a 100M walk to the pistes.

I don't describe it as ski in ski out as it varies. I suspect a lot of places are described as ski in / ski out when in reality that depends on the conditions.
snow report
 You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
I rarely go to ski in ski out apartments because they tend not to fit into my economic model of a ski holiday which is with a family or two families self catering , regular cat swinging contests.
Appropriate apartments tend to be either smaller than I like or more expensive . On the occasions when I have been to ski in ski out I don't find they add a lot to my holiday. I don't mind a short drive or walk to the lifts, prefer not to use ski buses unless very regular and short distances.
snow report
 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
My real gripe is the use of doorstep skiing to mean a difficult 50metre walk before skiing.
snow conditions
 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
@queen bodecia, It depends where you are in your life, and upon the make up of the party you are with!

In my teens, walking in ski boots was not a big deal, especially as the old leather boots were not uncomfortable for walking in the way that plastic shell technology ones generally are. In my 20`s I was young, fit and healthy so still not much of an issue and hopping on a bus was ok if not ideal. In my 30`s with toddlers and small children in tow walking any distance, or getting on a skibus became impossible, but driving to lifts was fine, indeed often a good thing as small children often fall asleep on the way back from ski lifts and with a bit of planning (food and change into night clothes at the bottom of the lifts) can be transferred straight into bed. In my late 40`s/early 50's we generally could not afford to go skiing as much as senior school & university costs etc hit home, but when we could walking/bus etc was not a problem (and the youngsters were always willing to help a tired parent at the end of a day lol) By my late 50`s health issues had started and we also had older the generation to think of, who could not reasonably be left at home, wanted to come, and were prepared to more than pay their way, for those reasons being able to return to accommodation easily throughout the day ie ski in/out became really important.
ski holidays
 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Our first family ski holiday we were at the top of La Plagne 1800, with a long steep walk down to the piste. And three young children. And all the gear. Never, ever again..

Second family ski holiday it was a 50m and dodgy steps kind of affair despite being described as ski in/ski out in Tignes Le Lac. As it happened, the childcare was all the way over in Val Claret, with another long ungritted walk down to the bus stop and back again at the end of the day with all the gear. And four children. Definitely never, ever again.

Third family ski holiday was in Les Arc1950, this time I did my research properly and yes, it really was ski in, ski out, the childcare was about 50 yards away and the ski school drop offs etc right outside. Perfect! No coincidence it was the best family holiday we've had.

For us with all the children and all the gear, it's more than a priority, it's an essential now.

I'm less fussed on my own or with a child that can carry their own gear, but nasty slippery steps are always a no.
ski holidays
 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
@Jehu,
Quote:

Doorstep skiing - what does it mean?


This is an important legal point. The precise definition needs to be established once and for all to prevent others suffering the same level of anguish that you have. One for the ECJ I should think.

I suggest you sue the TO involved and let us know how you get on
snow report
 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
As an aside, I once tried to ski in to the building I was staying. It was a very snow week and the apartment building I was in was just across the road from the end of the piste. The road was snowed up, the walkway to the buildings front door was also snowy, and the door was open. What's a stupid young chap supposed to do...

It didn't end well. Carpet isn't very slippy.
ski holidays
 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Actual ski in/out is a true and rare luxury. You will pay for it.

However...sometimes the ski gods gift it to you. We went to Les Saisies for a couple of years and discovered that if you stayed in the last row of chalets, you in fact did have ski in/out through a couple of goat tracks and footpaths through the woods. In fact we rented the same apartment two years in a row just because of that...

I will walk up to 200 m in boots and carrying skis. Maybe 300. Anything more than that and I'm looking for the skibus. Actually the next best thing is a ski depot in a shop at the base of the lifts...maybe even better as you can wear regular shoes/boots to your apres...
latest report
 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Pasigal wrote:
Actual ski in/out is a true and rare luxury. You will pay for it.
Is it that rare? In Les Arcs it seems that a large proportion of the accommodation offers ski in / out, on a proper piste rather than having to olly over your neighbour's garden fence. Downside is that you sometimes get woken by a piste basher if it's on an early shift .
snow report
 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Pasigal wrote:
Actual ski in/out is a true and rare luxury. You will pay for it.


To back up what rob@rar says, the block I'm in is central to one of the Arc 1800 villages and you can ski to multiple doors and ski down to the central lifts in the morning. It's one of the older buildings and doesn't therefore command a premium but its position was certainly a factor in my decision to buy here. Other French purpose built resorts, such as La Plagne and Val Thorens, also have a high proportion of ski in/out properties.
snow conditions
 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@rob@rar, @Alastair, I had forgotten that a lot of purpose built resorts are designed around it. You're lucky!
ski holidays
 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
If you go to San Cassiano and stay in Mountain Sun's Albergo Frohsinn chalet it is truly ski in and out, right on the side of the blue run approx. 200 metres down to the main gondola

Put your boots / skis on outside the chalet (convenient seats and racks) and then enter the blue piste, can't get any better for a slopeside location
snow report
 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Jehu wrote:
Not sure this is the right place or if it should be "chalets and apartments" but here goes.

If a chalet is described as offering “Skiing to and from the doorstep” and “skiing is literally to and from the door” do you think that is the same as another chalet which is described as having “doorstep skiing” and “a great location just next to the slopes which means that you can put your skis on in the mornings and ski directly down to the lifts”? In fact the first chalet is genuinely ski-in ski-out, the second chalet is not.

The natural and obvious meaning of the words “doorstep skiing” is that in normal conditions it is possible to put your skis on within two or three metres of the door and ski to or even on the piste. It never occurred to me that it could mean anything else until I arrived at a chalet advertised as having “doorstep skiing” to find that it was necessary to carry my skis down a long flight of steps, possibly snow covered, and then negotiate a narrow sloping path between trees before putting skis on.

Some tour operators appear to me to be making misleading statements like the above and trying to cover themselves by hiding a definition of their misleading statements deep in the small print of their T&C.

The tour operator’s definition of doorstep skiing is “being possible to ski to/from a point within 50m of that property”. Another well-known TO uses 100m.

Lesson learned: read the T&C before booking, but I wish TOs would realise that they are more likely to have loyal and satisfied customers if they provide honest descriptions that can be understood without recourse to the dictionary hidden in the T&C.

Any other snowheads been caught out like this?


GOSH TOs being economical with the truth.

Woh would have thunk
snow report
 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
rob@rar wrote:
But I hate catching a bus to go skiing with a passion, and it baffles me that people are prepared to put up with it wink


Really? You always have seemed such a reasonable chap but now you seem to be channelling Margaret Thatcher ("A man who, beyond the age of 26, finds himself on a bus can count himself as a failure").. What's so bad about buses?
latest report
 You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
Ski in/out is less common in Austria due to the majority of ski areas being actual towns which existed long before high speed lifts and piste bashers! It does happen though, there are often hotels at base stations, or 'Bergasthofs' on the mountains. But it's probably less than 15% of accommodation so it would really restrict your options if it's a priority. But each to their own. Personally I like being in the centre of a pretty town. Driving or catching a bus to a variety of ski areas is no issue.

I have stayed in 80s shoebox apartment blocks above the treeline. Convenient yes (except when the weather closes in). Functional yes. Welcoming, pretty, characterful, no. But we've had this debate a million times... snowHead
snow report
 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
@dogwatch, Margaret Thatcher didn’t like taking a bus to the slopes? You learn something new every day!

No particular reason, just personal preference. Inconvenience, being at the mercy of bus timetables, pushing and shoving, PITAness of carrying kit on to a crowded bus, preferring to be in control rather than being herded around, etc, etc. Compared to that I’d much prefer to step outside my accommodation and click in, or have a reasonable walk to the nearest Lift. I like to be able to sometimes pop home for lunch or to grab a different pair of skis. Failing that jumping in to my car to get to where I’m skiing also works. But a bus at the start and end of the day, for me, just sucks.

No right or wrong about this of course, just opinions and personal priorities. queen bodecia’s preferences, for example, just as valid and as sensible as my own. Fortunately we have options when choosing where we ski, although as with everything a little caution is useful when selecting accommodation if you have a particular criterion as an absolute priority.
ski holidays
 You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
Presumably if you had the skills you could ski down the narrow track. Perhaps relevant that the term doorstep skiing is used rather than ski in/ out. Either the initial logic justifies the TO's slight porkie or "doorstep" is used as a geographical indicator to mean a distance of less than 100m or so which seems entirely reasonable to me. After all in the English vernacular we describe things as being on "our doorstep" like a corner shop, a school etc which obviously are not literal ( or we've been using that shrinking ray again).

But basically Rule 5.
snow report
 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
rob@rar wrote:
As an aside, I once tried to ski in to the building I was staying. It was a very snow week and the apartment building I was in was just across the road from the end of the piste. The road was snowed up, the walkway to the buildings front door was also snowy, and the door was open. What's a stupid young chap supposed to do...

It didn't end well. Carpet isn't very slippy.


Very Happy Laughing Laughing my 2nd week on skis I tried the same thing but the cleaner was waiting with a broomstick
latest report
 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Can't recommend transitioning at speed from remaining piste across cow pasture. " Grass looks nice n wet sure I can glide halfwsy to chalet faceplant to bovine landmine.
ski holidays



Terms and conditions  Privacy Policy