 Poster: A snowHead
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Anyone used these? Are they any use??
I'm driving from Geneva tomorrow night, in a rental from the French side (I reckon I could get several sets of chains for the difference in price on the day I booked). The plan is overnight around Albertville, then up to Val d'Isere, aiming to leave Albertville around 10.30ish.
I have a new unused set of snow socks which wouldn't add much weight to my luggage and I'm thinking if I bring them they might do, and if I still need chains I can always buy a set. I've left a few sets of unopened unused chains which I've bought myself in various rental cars over the years, and I'd rather avoid it this time if possible. (I can put them on btw.)
But if that's a mad idea I'll leave the socks at home and just buy a set if the car doesn't have them, which it probably won't.
Any thoughts? Would you bother bringing them? 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Whenever I've hired in winter at GVA the cars have always had winter tyres and chains, but this is from the Swiss side and indicated by being 'Winterized' on the booking details. I'm assuming there's no mention of this on your Ferney hire details?
Socks are not as good as winter tyres, so if your car has winter tyres on I wouldn't take the socks - there's no point. They're no substitute for chains if your winter tyres can't cope.
You won't know what tyres size your car will have so the socks may not fit.
But on the other hand, if the car doesn't have winters on and can take the socks, that could be useful. If the weather is good and the road is clear outbound, you might get away with relying on buying chains in the resort if conditions are challenging on your departure day.
You'll still need chains to hand (ideally) whether winterised or not.
Just an observation: This is why rentals prices are often higher on the Swiss side - you will get winter tyres, snow chains and a Vignette included.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Snow socks are good but should only be thought of as a get-out-of-jail-free card. Find your car in a snow-filled car park at the end of the week? Chuck the socks on and they will give you a better chance of getting out and on to the salted/swept road than your summer tyres.
They aren't as good as, or in the eyes of the law all the same as chains though. Start up the hill to your resort to be faced by the "Chains mandatory" sign and popping your snow socks on will get you the waggling finger from the police.
Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Fri 19-01-18 11:47; edited 1 time in total
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@Pending, yes, I'd bring them, hoping they would be the right size for whatever I was given. I was very sceptical until I really needed to use them (in the UK) and they worked amazingly on my rear wheel drive, never-go-out-in-snow car. But if you hit really bad weather and they are policing what you have on your wheels, then they'll need to be the officially approved snow socks. Even if you have to put on snow chains, it's worth considering whether to put the socks on the other two wheels. We rescued someone on summers with only two chains who was hanging over the edge of the road, pretty sure that the snowsocks in addition would have stopped her going off.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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The options here can get confusing quite quickly but as I said, it's important to appreciate that the ideal is winter tyres plus snow chains, for those occasional times when they're needed and/or mandatory. Snow socks are no substitute for chains and only a partial substitute for winter tyres. Worth the OP trying to get a definitive answer from their hirer about exactly what's going to be fitted (winter tyres or not) and provided (chains). If they're guaranteeing winter tyres will be fitted, then the socks are not necessary but chains would still be very desirable. If there's no information or confirmed not winters, then take the socks, but chains are still desirable.
It's a good point about the use of chains plus socks on summer tyres. Chains will give you good traction on the driven wheels but you still need better-than-summer traction on the steered wheels if it's RWD and some degree of traction on the rear wheels if it's FWD. I too have seen chained RWD cars carry on in a straight line at a bend because the steering wheels at the front got no traction. Converely, you can get huge oversteer on a FWD car if the rear wheels are effectively just 'floating' as you turn a corner.
Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Thu 18-01-18 15:31; edited 1 time in total
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@Pending, I rented French side pre Xmas and bought socks in the Hypermarket at ChamNord Retail park by the motorway in Chambery. Needed to use them 2 or 3 times over the Xmas and New Year. Packed them in our cabin bag in a couple of bin liners and bought them home. Having hosed them off and dried them they are packed in cabin bag ready for our trip on Sunday. - frankly wouldn't bother with chains for a small/medium car again. They came with a certificate to say they conform to the regs when the special equipment signs are showing.
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| LaForet wrote: |
Just an observation: This is why rentals prices are often higher on the Swiss side - you will get winter tyres, snow chains and a Vignette included. |
Hmm, there are other reasons. Cows don't need winter hooves nor a vignette, yet the beef is 3x more expensive here. Same goes for just about everything else except electronics and alcoholic drinks at the supermarket. It used to be petrol too, but we've been paying far too much for that for a few years now.
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@snoozeboy Yes, I agree that the Swiss prices are often higher. I was going to qualify this but didn't want to get verbose: you're right that winter tyres + chains + vignette alone can't possibly justify some of the price differences you see, especially at peak holiday times. I don't see this as much because we only travel on weekdays and don't visit on school holidays when car hire prices seem pretty inflated. If car hire is outrageous, then we just take the train/télépherique/bus anyway, albeit we don't justify buying an annual abonnement.
And when we refurbished our apartment kitchen with Ikea stuff, we spec'd everything up here in the UK and used the same part numbers for ordering in Aubonne - the price was 38% more. Wen we refurbished, it was cheaper to buy new furniture from Poland here in the UK, then take a van down to Switzerland, and pay the import tax. Cheaper, and we got stuff in a style that no one in the Valais seemed to be selling in terms of solid oak furniture and 3-piece suites. Everything seemed to be either down-market plastic-y stuff, rather twee alpine-y pine, or very expensive designer ranges with not much in-between.
Last edited by After all it is free  on Thu 18-01-18 16:00; edited 2 times in total
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Mjit wrote: |
| They aren't as good as, or in the eyes of the law the same as chains though. Start up the hill to your resort to be faced by the "Chains mandatory" sign and popping your snow socks on will get you the waggling finger from the police. |
I've ceratinly driven up to points where the French police were making people stop to fit chains, with socks on the car. The police have taken a quick look at our snow socks and let us pass without any further question. I know that it used to be the case that socks were seen as inferior but I don't believe, on the evidence of experience, that it can be the case any longer. To the OP if I were you I'd call the rental company to find out the size of the tyres that you'll have on the hire car, as if the socks you have aren't a match there is no point in taking them.
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I'm travelling on Sunday and renting from Budget in Lyon. I'm pretty sure that the car (Renault Kadjar or similar) won't have chains and my plan was to buy a set from the first convenient Hypermarche, probably in Albertville. Does this seem like a sensible plan? It's possible that Budget might be able to rent me a set but I suspect that a week's rental would be about three times the price of buying them.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@Bogusman, sounds sensible in principle, but it's unlikely that you'll find a hypermarket open on a Sunday. Many smaller supermarkets are open Sunday mornings and sell chains, especially as you get closer to the mountains.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Quote: |
If they're guaranteeing winter tyres will be fitted, then the socks are not necessary but chains would still be very desirable. If there's no information or confirmed not winters, then take the socks, but chains are still desirable.
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Given the current weather, I'd not want to drive up to the Haute Tarentaise on a Saturday without chains - it's quite possible you'll be turned back without them, whatever kind of tyres you have.
As for the socks (and chains) size is critical - and often you won't get a clear answer from a hire company as to what car they're going to give you on the day.
You can often - but not always - rent chains on the French side of Geneva airport (which is not always, incidentally, cheaper than the Swiss side - the difference vary in a baffling sort of way).
There's a "Feu Vert" in Ferney Voltaire if you want to buy chains - turn left out of the airport, right at the roundabout, right again at the next. Also a good supermarket.
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Good point. I think when I have followed a variant on this cunning plan in the past it was a Saturday 
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You know it makes sense.
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Thanks all. Looks like chains will be needed on Saturday to get up to Val so I'll leave the socks for another time - the bags are getting a bit stuffed as it is!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Quote: |
You can often - but not always - rent chains on the French side of Geneva airport
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Have done so many times but I think they're having a laugh calling it 'renting' when they usually charge more than you can buy the same chains for in the supermarket.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Never had an issue with socks, the newer ones that are approved by the French government are a big improvement on the first generation. Technology moves on!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@Pending, I use them on my semi (artic). Unless specifically stated they are legally the same as chains. In practical use they are as good on wet ice and hard packed glazed over snow as chains and in deep snow I've found them to be much better than chains as they don't have that tendency to dig a hole to drop you down onto your axles.
ONE BIG CAVEAT. . . You have to drive sensibly and that means no more than 30/35 and be very proactive with you manoeuvring so that you don't end up in over and understeer situation. I don't have snow tyres so I get to use them more frequently than you.
Personally I'm happier with socks than chains . . . but then chains for mine weigh about 60kg a pair and I have to carry enought for 4 axles and 3 different tyre sizes so that's 8 sets 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@LaForet, have you ever used socks?
We used them on a trip to Andorra, it was 1'c and raining in Toulouse, by the time we got to Foix, this had turned into heavy snow and the roads were covered, we pulled into the chainage area where some guy was already unravelling one of his chains, we had both socks on and drove off before the other guy had his chains on.
It's 80km from Foix to Soldeu and we got there no problem with no Tarmac in sight under up to 15 cm of snow, even up the relatively steep hill to the apartment.
That was 10 yrs ago and I still have the socks which have been used a few times since and are still usable.
A downside of socks is that they don't seem as adaptable over a range of tyre sizes as chains, ie the chains we had but never used for the car will fit my van but the snow socks wont. True that if you wheelspin on tarmac, you will shred them but this will also probably wreck chains too. Can't say that I have had a chance to really compare snow socks vs winter tyres but I would expect socks to be better on hard snow / ice.
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@tangowaggon: No. And I never would. Because I opt for the optimal setup of winter tyres and chains on my car that goes to the Alps. Socks are always inferior to winter tyres, all other things being equal. I've almost never have to resort to chains even in the worst conditions in 15 years of Alpine driving. Socks are for those who opt to take the risk of using summer tyres in order to save money and the inconvenience of swapping winters/summers twice a year:
My other UK run-around has all-season tyres on it, although I do have a set of Michelin Easy-grips in its boot, just in case. Socks do work well provided you're in the zone that they suit. In the UK, they certainly are a serious option for those who drive around a lot and want some form of 'insurance' if they're away from home and it starts to snow.
For me, it's the fact that I take the car to the Alps in the winter that swings the decision in favour of winter tyres. I'd agree that it's a more difficult decision if you only drive in the UK. Although as you can see from the chart, winter tyres are as much, of not more, for cold and wet conditions as snow. Being snow-capable is icing on the cake.
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Fri 19-01-18 17:19; edited 1 time in total
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Socks definitely have a place. We have a place out in the Alps too, at 1900m. It's far easier to slip the socks on on a snow day and have never had any issues with the autosocks which are approved by the French Govt. The police have no issue with them either. If it's horrendous I will take the chains, but I've not used them in more than 5 years. I guess it's a personal choice at the end of the day, but if I was going to the Alps once or twice a year I'd just buy some good snow socks.
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One advantage of socks I found last month was driving through tunnels, needing the socks all the way from Montalbert to Moutier there is the, one lane each way no overtaking possible Saix Tunnel which of course had no snow in it, driving carefully on the bare tarmac was no problem and caused no damage to the socks, there were a couple of HGV's behind me who didn't seem unduly concerned that I was doing 40kph. (The recommended maximum)
Had I had chains on, would I have stopped to take them off go through tunnel and put them back on OR bounced through with chains on possibly ruining the chains, my tyres and my alloy's .... 
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