 Poster: A snowHead
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A skiing holiday with no skiing, A car with no wheels, A beach holiday with no beach, -- what's the difference 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Plenty of gripes regarding Crystal on Snowheads over the years. I don't know why anyone uses them.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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A lot of people stay in resort before the resort opens, how were Crystal to know you weren't one of these?
I suspect your contract with them was to provide; travel, accommodation and food.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@Mr Marmot, snowheads gripe; it's almost their job. Last holiday I had with Crystal was several years ago at Wengen. I thought they gave me a good deal and an enjoyable holiday. Since then I have either been on bashes or going to resort I know very well - but one I wanted a TO, Crystal were fine.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I fail to understand how a resort can be deemed "not open" but have some lifts running? If it has some lifts running it is definitely open in my book. That said, even if opening a small subset of lifts they will acknowledge they are "open". And surely you need a lift pass to use the open lifts and if you are selling lift passes. Often the lift pass will be cheaper in this period but that is another story.
As for Crystal. Clearly for many they do the job but it's equally, if you read the many anecdotes about them altbobs ascertion that "I use a TO mainly for the transfer and the assurance that if something bad happens, they will ensure that I get home" is way off beam.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Markymark29 wrote: |
Ive used them all in the 90’s and in the internet era can’t believe that they still exist, and even more so why people use tour operators. Sorry but so many bad experiences, and untrained staff - we stay well away from them. You get what you pay for is my view. If you start from a point of expecting the worst and if you get better then you can be pleased was always my view of volume TO companies You’ve only to look at the people in resort, the margins they operate on and the way they organise transfers to realise from the outset it’s a bad experience. Most resort staff are inexperienced and there for one thing, to ski/ board and party...if they can hold down a job between this then you’ll be the ones as their customers who have to make do with their moods, poor customer service and late arrivals, plus cooking (there’s another subject altogether)....the high-end specialist ski operators are probably better but don’t represent good value in my view. I see their buses floating about and picking up/ dropping off and can’t help but laugh. We have friends who’ve used them and are back going indi again, that tells me a lot.
Good luck to the OP I seriously don’t think you’ll get anywhere though with a complaint, they don’t have a service culture and won’t understand (or want to understand) your issue.i hope I’m wrong. |
As others have said, it's mainly price. I went to Selva over New Year travelling independently and staying at Hotel Flora. This was cheaper than the publish Crystal price when I booked, but my friends booked later to stay in same hotel at less than I spent and with the benefit of a transfer to and from resort and via Verona, rather than Milan Malpensa (a drive I didn't enjoy). Nothing wrong with using a TO, I may well use Crystal next year. Off to refresh my map reading before driving to Ischgl from Munich on Saturday 
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| Layne wrote: |
| I fail to understand how a resort can be deemed "not open" but have some lifts running? .... |
I think it is only the OP who is deeming it "not open". My interpretation is that Are "opened" on 24 November, when they started operating one of the Duved lifts. Further lifts were opened on 1 December then 8 December, with the three lifts together covering around 10% of pistes. There were further lifts operating on the weekend of 15-17 December (although they closed again on 18-20) and then everything else opened for the season on 21 December. All of this was pretty much as scheduled. (Exactly when the schedule for this season was determined/published seems unclear at this stage, but I am not sure it is relevant as the "opening" date of 24 November was plenty early enough).
The OP arrived on 17 December, to find that for his first three days the only open lifts were a walk / bus ride away from his hotel, and seems to have concluded from that that the resort was "officially closed"! If Crystal told him something like the resort would be "fully open", or that his hotel would be ski in/ski out, for the whole week then they are clearly at fault, but if not they are probably in the clear - on that aspect at least.
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Haven't used a TO in years but this year we are going with Crystal to Selva. This is purely because we love the Dolomites but find that it costs just the same to organise it ourselves and have the hassle of hiring a car (other half hates that now) or pay for a transfer for the two of us which is so expensive. Coming from Ireland we are restricted in getting there. We have organised most of our skiiing holiday independently but have found that's easier if going to France or even Austria .
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Sorry to hear of such rubbish experience but I carry on using Crystal as they will get you there and back again (eventually). The reason why they are still going is because people value that and accept that they are bargain (for skiing) basement. Hence thin margins, hence high ration of inexperience to experienced staff hence when it goes wrong they struggle to sort it out.
Also "all optionals sold on coach are poo-poo" is contradicted by a great day out from Selva on Hidden Valley trip. Absolutely loved it - Cinque Torres to ourselves, the horsedrawn tow, a refreshing drink after lifts and a coach home for dinner. Might not compete with knarly off-piste independent hairy-arsed snowheads but both the Sergeant and his platoon enjoyed in enormously. It was like being on holiday....
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| Layne wrote: |
| I fail to understand how a resort can be deemed "not open" but have some lifts running? If it has some lifts running it is definitely open in my book. That said, even if opening a small subset of lifts they will acknowledge they are "open". And surely you need a lift pass to use the open lifts and if you are selling lift passes. Often the lift pass will be cheaper in this period but that is another story.. |
As an example, La Plagne generally opens a fair bit before Christmas (at least 2 Saturdays?). But the lower villages do not open until the Saturday directly before Christmas. If you booked a ski holiday to Montchavin before the local lifts were scheduled to be open, you'd be a bit peeved, as the though technically the resort is open that's no use if you can't get there. It being cheap is no consolation, especially if you have paid for a lift pass and ski hire you can't use.
This was my understanding of what happened to the OP, though as I don't know the layout of Åre so I might be wrong.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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As I said in the original post I'm not really that upset about this. We had a good time anyway and the place was great. However without getting hung up on the technicalities of how many lifts open constitutes an open resort, talking to the bar staff and the people in the ski shop all said the resort doesn't really open until the 21st.
All I would of liked is when booking the TO might of mentioned that the "lift that was only 1 minute away" would be closed and the ski shop in the hotel would be closed and the buses would be infrequent until it opened but if we liked to wait at a freezing bus stop one would be along at some point and take you to another area(Duved) but you might not like it there so much because its for beginners. Oh and the hotel would have a skeleton staff and they would be doing some last minute refurbing the dinning room before everybody arrived because the hotel felt the season hadn't properly started. There would be no point in using the boot room(4th floor)because you couldn't get out that way coz the door up there wouldn't be open and so on. That's why the resort felt pretty closed and I would just liked to of been informed of this.
Not much to ask surely...
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Gämsbock wrote: |
| Layne wrote: |
| I fail to understand how a resort can be deemed "not open" but have some lifts running? If it has some lifts running it is definitely open in my book. That said, even if opening a small subset of lifts they will acknowledge they are "open". And surely you need a lift pass to use the open lifts and if you are selling lift passes. Often the lift pass will be cheaper in this period but that is another story.. |
As an example, La Plagne generally opens a fair bit before Christmas (at least 2 Saturdays?). But the lower villages do not open until the Saturday directly before Christmas. If you booked a ski holiday to Montchavin before the local lifts were scheduled to be open, you'd be a bit peeved, as the though technically the resort is open that's no use if you can't get there. It being cheap is no consolation, especially if you have paid for a lift pass and ski hire you can't use.
This was my understanding of what happened to the OP, though as I don't know the layout of Åre so I might be wrong. |
Happy to be corrected but didn't La Plagne open 16th December with no restrictions? I've stayed in Montchavin when you couldn't ski back but the lift was still open. I very much doubt a TO would sell me a package for Montchavin with the lifts not open. But happy for someone to tell me otherwise.
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I think it's tricky. People who use tour operators may believe everything is always going to be brochure perfect, but that's quite a lot to ask, really.
As a wild example, consider a resort which is completely open, but which has had a "rain event". So the snow top-to-bottom is all ice. People could complain that their ski-in/ski-out isn't actually ski-able in those conditions, which would be true. However the tour operator can't control the weather.
They can control their support people - failure to respond is just bad service.
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You know it makes sense.
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Not Sweden but I remember about 3 years ago our resort had a discounted lift pass because of the limited skiing. I assume there was nothing like this in place ?
We had bought our lift pass independently couple of months before. The crystal rep on the bus told everyone about how they had extended this offer to include our week and we were able to get a refund from the ticket office on our return home.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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From the skistar website:
Book safe with our snow guarantee
The snow guarantee means that we will either refund your money or you can re-book your trip if we are unable to provide the ski product we promised. For those who arrive early in the season, we are now accepting free cancellations and re-bookings until the date the snow guarantee starts to apply.
SkiStars snow guarantee
SkiStars snow guarantee applies to all our Scandinavian destinations from 17 December 2017 to the end of season. During the pre-season (28 October to 16 December 2017) we offer free cancellations and rebookings up until you check in. Read more »
We guarantee a minimum of
SÄLEN - 15 open pistes total in Lindvallen, Högfjället, Tandådalen, Hundfjället. (10 for older skiers and 5 for the younger skiers)
ÅRE - 10 open pistes total in Duved, Åre by and Björnen.
VEMDALEN - 8 open pistes total in Björnrike, Vemdalsskalet and Klövsjö/Storhogna
HEMSEDAL - descents of at least 8 km and 628 vertical meters
TRYSIL - descents of at least 20 km and 620 vertical feet
If we cannot meet what´s promised in the snow guarantee you have the option to cancel or interrupt your stay and get the money back until 11:00 the day of arrival. We will refund the amount you have paid us for SkiPasses, ski hire, ski school and lodging including cancellation insurance.
Information about whether the snow guarantee applies, can be found here at skistar.com prior to arrival.
The snow guarantee does not apply to lifts or pistes that are temporarily closed, e.g. due to technical problems or bad weather. The snow guarantee also does not apply to St. Johann in Tirol.
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Poster: A snowHead
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As the OP arrived on 17th December, it was officially the season (not preseason) and I presume they had at least 10 pistes open. I think I would have read somewhere if they had to pay out on their snow guarantee.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I think TOs (a) have an obligation not to tell untruths, but (b) don't have to point out all the possible shortcomings - although the better ones may do so in order to maintain a good reputation. And they can't necessarily be held liable for things outside their control, like weather or changes they couldn't reasonably be expected to know in advance.
In the OP's position I would look for anything the TO or brochure specifically promised (provided it wasn't qualified by any comment at or before booking) that wasn't delivered, even if for only part of the week. Could be availability of skiing, ski-in/out, hotel facilities, ski-hire provided from a shop that wasn't open, etc. And complain about those, rather than the "resort closed" aspect.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Just to update if anybody cares.
In the interest of fairness I feel I need to post the fact that Crystal agreed to compensate me. Although this was after I had emailed their customer services several times and I didn't get a reply from them until I started posting on their Facebook page at the suggestion of people on here in this thread and thanks for that.
As I stated in the OP I wasn't really after money, I just wanted an apology and that in the future they should be more upfront about the operations of the resort. However as I felt that they thought that by ignoring my emails that I would go away hardened my resolve to get some recompense.
The result being is that they have offered me £100 in vouchers each for the three of us and £118 in cash to offset the lift passes. This was after I rejected their first offer. It's not a massive amount, probably about 10 percent of the overall cost. I could of battled for more but as I said before it's not about the dosh it's about the principal. I'm now hoping that the vouchers don't come with all sorts of restrictions, ie one can only be used at a time etc. If that is the case it will all kick off again.
My suggestion to Crystal and other TO's is deal with complaints quickly and fairly and not to wait until they are exposed on Facebook.
I suspect if there was no social media I wouldn't of got anywhere.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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We went with crystal and had an 11 hour delay in Finland. Our plane was diverted to France to pick people up there so we were stuck in a subway restaurant for 9 hours (with 2 young kids). No apology or acknowledgement of our letters. Bad weather, blah blah, not our fault blah blah. Got fed up in the end and instructed a no win no fee firm. We got £800 and they got £400. Job done. Terrible company with utter contempt for their customers. I think the OP has cause for complaint. It’s a skiing holiday so the TO has a responsibility to make sure the resort will be open. If it isn’t officially opened until 21st they had no right to sell a ski holiday from 17th. Terrible company.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@bambionskiis, out of interest, how did the compensation pan out compared to the standard EU compensation of €250pp? Did the £800 include the lawyers 400? Or was that on top? i.e. £1200 total. We’re you definitely not eligible under the EU scheme?
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FAQ
