 Poster: A snowHead
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Is this a repeat thread?
I shared a gondola in Whistler last week with a local girl whose partner was skinning up the piste to avoid buying a lift ticket. I would imagine it would have taken him a couple of hours to get upto the intermediate/upper lifts, where ticket scans are not required, but I would expect official dudes in snowmobiles to intercept him before he reached the upper areas.
I tried to skin up myself on the last day -not for the sake of ticket dodging, just a fitness thing because I couldn't ski for a couple of days due to a dodgy back - the dodgy back won, so I couldn't test the theory!
I don't advocate ticket dodging, but given the cost of lift tickets (Whistler: $73+tax), I can see why some people do. An easier way to scam the system(Whistler) would be to ferry people, one at a time, up the mountain using one person to ski down to the base station with two tickets. Surely the resort management are one step ahead of these tricks?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Kit Wong, if it's just a visual ticket check at the base, then you could probably get away with it. If they are electronically recording it, again, you might get away, but my question is why encourage people to steal? (which is what effectively they would be doing)
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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back in the days when Nevis range had good snow, there was a question raised about people walking up under the gondola to ski for free at the main area above... the owner of the area said 'if anyone is f**king stupid enough to walk up they are welcome to ski for free'
fair play 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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CEM, 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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The skinning/hiking up is pretty well known at Whistler. Obviously ski patrol get plenty of opportunity to spot you if you're going up a main run and turn you around before you reach higher lifts they;re also aware of teh main other routes up so fine if you just want the walk but not the best poaching strategy.
I've seen people being snowmobiled straight off the mountain if caught without a ticket (with possibly their gear retained as security against a fine) & lifties do get an incentive of $30 or so for catching ticket dodging eg using someone else's season pass (which is then cancelled). This of course doesn't prevent a black market in 2nd hand passes but would discourage lending of passes.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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i guess i whister ticket costs a little more than a day pass at nevis range
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I think if you have skinned up then you should be entitled to ski down free. They don't own the mountain, only the lift infrastrcuture IMV. I think this quite common in the alpes, don't use the lifts, don't pay...isn't it? Accept the US may be diiferent blah blah
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JT, I think that Chamonix just banned skinning up, SZK will know for certain 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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snowbunny,
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I think that Chamonix just banned skinning up, SZK will know for certain
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not casting aspirtions are you 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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snowbunny,
I'm sure he does 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| snowbunny wrote: |
| JT, I think that Chamonix just banned skinning up, SZK will know for certain |
A few places have rightly started trying to get it under control a bit. I once narrowly avoided colliding with someone skinning up a piste in Austria, it was about 30mins before the lifts fully opened and there was supposed to be no one on the mountain, two of us were skiing a racecourse at some speed and going round a blind corner found someone skinning up the middle of the piste. Probably one of the most terrifying incidents I've ever had on the piste really.
It's very popular and a lot of people tour locally, so some of the stations try and set aside some tracks to help people access where they want to get to.
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I don't think its a particular problem in the Alps where often higher lifts will still have ticket barriers & I guess the land is public access anyway. US/Canadian resorts may be on private land or exclusive licence so while I don't think they generally have a problem with people skinning for access to backcountry or pure exercise etc they do have a problem with people using it as a means of poaching higher lifts (& so do I when I've paid $73 a ticket)
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You know it makes sense.
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| Wear The Fox Hat wrote: |
| Kit Wong, if it's just a visual ticket check at the base, then you could probably get away with it. If they are electronically recording it, again, you might get away, but my question is why encourage people to steal? (which is what effectively they would be doing) |
Whistler are pretty strict (barcode scanners) and they get pretty irate if your skipass isnt permanently attached to you as mine wasnt (on an elastic holder). I got grilled by staff as to where I'd been that day
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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If anyone skins/climbs up a hill they have the right to slide, walk or fall down it. Using the upper lift system is an abuse, but if you're up there under your own steam you should be given the respect you deserve . . . and that might just even include a nod from the liftie. It's all down to mutual respect and not abusing it.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Masque, I remain convinced that I read that Chamonix had made changes to local byelaws which now prohibited skinning up, where's SZK gone
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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ise,
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A few places have rightly started trying to get it under control a bit. I once narrowly avoided colliding with someone skinning up a piste in Austria, it was about 30mins before the lifts fully opened and there was supposed to be no one on the mountain, two of us were skiing a racecourse at some speed and going round a blind corner found someone skinning up the middle of the piste. Probably one of the most terrifying incidents I've ever had on the piste really.
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A hair raising experience for you all, no doubt. Quite a good example to demonstrate the need to have some regulation, whilst not denying access. Perhaps particular slopes could be zoned as you say, or byelaws altered to give access safely to all slope users.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Masque wrote: |
| If anyone skins/climbs up a hill they have the right to slide, walk or fall down it. |
The preparation of slopes, pisting, avalanche control, patrolling are all services paid for by people who bought lift tickets. People can climb up and ski down any hill they wish but once they pick one that's an operating ski station they ought to be buying a ticket.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| snowbunny wrote: |
ise,
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A few places have rightly started trying to get it under control a bit. I once narrowly avoided colliding with someone skinning up a piste in Austria, it was about 30mins before the lifts fully opened and there was supposed to be no one on the mountain, two of us were skiing a racecourse at some speed and going round a blind corner found someone skinning up the middle of the piste. Probably one of the most terrifying incidents I've ever had on the piste really.
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A hair raising experience for you all, no doubt. Quite a good example to demonstrate the need to have some regulation, whilst not denying access. Perhaps particular slopes could be zoned as you say, or byelaws altered to give access safely to all slope users. |
I know it gives the pisteurs soem problems as well, there's been incidents where they've had near misses in piste-bashers when the lifts are shut and the slopes are supposed to be empty.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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ise,
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I know it gives the pisteurs soem problems as well, there's been incidents where they've had near misses in piste-bashers when the lifts are shut and the slopes are supposed to be empty.
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Ski-tourer on skins v piste-basher..... an example of Darwinism at work?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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ise, i am generally of the view that if there is a lift there, i will use it. however, i have found myself skinning up pistes from time to time and have always been taught that you stay as close to the edge of the piste as possible so the bloke you came across was clearly in the wrong.
skinning up a piste set aside for race training is pure stupidity!
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Some ski resorts in Austria are trying to charge Ski-tourers a small fee (5 Euro ca 3 quid I think) but this fee does not include the use of lifts. In their justification the ski resorts say it's to cover ski tourers using resort services (e.g. toilets etc).
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| DB wrote: |
| Some ski resorts in Austria are trying to charge Ski-tourers a small fee (5 Euro ca 3 quid I think) but this fee does not include the use of lifts. In their justification the ski resorts say it's to cover ski tourers using resort services (e.g. toilets etc). |
eg, the piste and the avalanche control is nearer the mark I'd say
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| snowbunny wrote: |
| Masque, I remain convinced that I read that Chamonix had made changes to local byelaws which now prohibited skinning up, where's SZK gone :D |
You just have to check the right website:
Chamonix had made changes to local byelaws
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davidof,
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You just have to check the right website:
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Thanks, I've not lost my marbles...just yet
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Masque wrote: |
| If anyone skins/climbs up a hill they have the right to slide, walk or fall down it. |
Not if the hill is private property - then they don;t have the right to climb/skin up in the first place.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Why would you skin up to ski down a piste? the point, surely, of back country skiing is that it's in the, err, back country. Not some poncey 3V motorway!
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| WTFH wrote: |
| Not if the hill is private property - then they don;t have the right to climb/skin up in the first place. |
As you will know from the UK the concept of private property doesn't give you the right to do what you want with your land and that idea is the same in many countries (outside the US).
In particular in the UK you have public footpaths and you have the right to roam over much open space. I'm sure you would object if some American owner bought up vast tracts of the peak district and told you to you couldn't walk there anymore?
That said, in France the local mayor is very powerful and can pass a bye-law banning whatever he likes. Some of these are not legal as there are national and European laws concerning roaming rights.
| David Murdoch wrote: |
| Why would you skin up to ski down a piste? the point, surely, of back country skiing is that it's in the, err, back country. Not some poncey 3V motorway! |
Yes I agree but read the link I posted which explains some of the issues. For example to access the mountains from the Vans, Sorbier and Vaudaine above Grenoble you have no choice but to use part of the Casserouse piste at Chamrouse. People have been skiing thse mountains for over 100 years whereas the ski piste has been there since around the 1968 Olypics. I would suggest that the ski tourers have a right of access that predates the ski resort's rights to make a buck out of people wanting to use lifts. In Chamrousse, despite a local bye-law, ski tourers and piste patrollers seem to have reached an accomodation.
The problem at the moment is that many ski resorts are now extending and linking their domains, this leaves little room for wildlife or ski mountaineers.
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You know it makes sense.
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When we were in Whistler, one of my boys lost his lift ticket. I had the receipts for them, and went to the ofice to sort it out. We got to the office at about 9am , and when they scanned the receipt, they discovered that the pass had already been used that morning. We couldn't therefore have a pass for that day, but they did reissue the remaining days and cancel the old pass. The user would then have an invalid ticket next time is was scanned.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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davidof, As Scotland have a different legal system from England and Wales the rights of access are quite different - no law of trespass for a start if I remember right. Grouping the 3 countries together under a UK banner is a bit like saying in America and including Mexico and Canada in it, no common legal system or rights. It might be a bit confusing for others to group them all together 
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Poster: A snowHead
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| obelix67 wrote: |
| davidof, As Scotland have a different legal system from England and Wales the rights of access are quite different - no law of trespass for a start if I remember right. Grouping the 3 countries together under a UK banner is a bit like saying in America and including Mexico and Canada in it, no common legal system or rights. It might be a bit confusing for others to group them all together ;) |
Partly why I said Peak District rather than Scotland although some yank did fence off one of the Munros about ten years ago I seem to recall.
Same argument for the Americas I believe where state law can be just as varied.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I think ise got it earlier but the lift ticket doesn't just pay for the lift alone but also for piste preparation and security/safety so skin up all you want (if you're mad enough) but don't then ski down the piste - that'll lern yer!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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davidof, yeah I seem to recall only in Orkney are you entitled to privacy on your land as it is not owned by the crown until 100 ft under ground or some stupid nonsense (oil rights etc.) if you could ever find privacy in Orkney ....a long story 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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About 8 years ago when I was a skint student, I made it out to Whistler but was struggling for a lift ticket (I was there for a fair ammount long time). About an half hour after the lifts opened I would go and wait at the bottom of the slopes, if I saw someone coming down who looked tired or looked like they'd had enough I'd approach them and ask if they'd finished for the day and I'd offer to buy their lift ticket. Some said no, most said yes and were very friendly about it. Everyday I got my ticket, the most I paid was 15 dollars and I was up the mountain for 11am everyday. It worked for me at the time, I haven't and wouldn't do it again but at the time I just wanted to ski!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I confess I have actually sold tickets like Alpine Bullit describes in the past. Usually its been when conditions have been appalling (and not highlighted in advance e.g. lift boards showing all lifts as opening then getting to the upper mountain and finding only a bunny lift open) and I have already been to the lift pass office to ask for a refund in part to be told its not policy.
I must say although N american resorts are often streets ahead here Lake Louise IIRC have a snow satisfaction guarantee whereby you can trade in your lift pass within the first hour for another daypass if conditions aren't to your liking. Contrast with Europe where I bought a 3 day pass more for convenience than the pitiful Eur1 or so discount over daily rate, popped my knee first morning and was basically told "tough - you need a doctor's report to refund or credit unused days" Seeing a doctor would probably have cost me more than the refund was worth and anyway I knew the diagnosis so was not happy .
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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prog99 wrote:
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Whistler are pretty strict (barcode scanners) and they get pretty irate if your skipass isnt permanently attached to you as mine wasnt (on an elastic holder). I got grilled by staff as to where I'd been that day
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-Really?? I've always worn mine in a clear plastic wallet that straps round my arm with an elastic strap (i.e. not permanently attached) and never even had an eyebrow raised.
fatbob,
Agree with you about the refund policy in Banff/LL: I lost my last couple of days skiing when my shoulder got displaced by a snowboarder at LL, and got a full refund of the missed days on my tri-area pass. The only documentation I provided was a reference to the incident logged by the ski patrol.
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It seems that we've got a lot to thank our hardy victorian skiers when in the old days they bravely left their snug chalet at the crack of dawn to spend the entire morning trekking to the top of the mountain, linger over their sumptious picnic lunch, and then finally ski down the mountain in their own inimitable style. Until eventually. one sensible and resourceful victorian discovered a much more easier and faster method in getting to the top of the mountain - old habits never die...[[[/url]
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Thanks for your lovely welcome, Linds
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Stephen Neal, Stephen Neal, perhaps you'd like to amend your signature, it's affecting the page width.
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FAQ
. Then again who can say for sure 
