 Poster: A snowHead
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I bought a pair of second hand skis last year and skied for several weeks. Mid way through the season I had them edged and waxed at the resort. Before skiing again this year I had them edged and waxed again by a local guy in the UK. On reaching the resort this year, I felt as if I had forgotten how to ski. On any reasonably hard surface, even a newly groomed piste, the skis would slide out from underneath me. I had to press really hard to make turns and to steer clear of any bald patches on the piste. Even getting off a chair lift I found myself drifting unpredictably. On deeper snow it wasn't so bad. I am an older guy and began to think I was over the hill and losing the plot. After the third day I went into the resort ski shop with the aim of trying some other skis. The technician took a quick look at my skis and said they definitely needed edging. I thought "well he would say that". I came back next day and paid him his fee. The difference was remarkable. I had a good confident grip round corners and a very enjoyable week.
I am an intermediate skier and more or less ignorant about the technicalities of edging angles. I'm assuming my local UK ski shop did something wrong. Any ideas about what it was? I have skied for 10 years or more and have never experienced anything like the loss of control I felt at the start of my ski trip
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Tue 9-01-18 1:09; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Almost certainly wrong edge angles set by the local guy in the uk.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@PaulC1984, er....not necessarily...
a difference of a degree or so is barely noticeable in most conditions; it might be it, but frankly I am pressed to detect the difference between 88 (snowli red guide) and 89 (toko orange guide) except in the longevity of the former.
But also possible and I think more likely:
1 forgot to do the job or got muddled, and put the skis in the 'done' pile rather than the 'to do' pile, and did the paperwork. And OP got them back with naff edges.
2 ran them through the machine with the guide bar in the wrong place, resulting in warm skis and no difference to the edge
3 did edge them, but left a massive hanging burr on them (which from the description sounds like a very likely thing)
4 has no idea and did something really weird to them (entirely possible - who was this 'local person'?) - I had someone completely screw up a boot adjustment recently - really messed up the boots
But Jon C will be along in a minute and say '...ah ha...I know what it is...' and he'll be right....
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I had this once, had them done at Snow and Rock with the guy telling me "The best ski tech in the area has done them" and they were terrible! It was also like I'd forgotten how to ski. Every turn I felt like my skis were trying to kill me, they were so hooky.
They were a bit better after another tune but never quite the same as they were when new.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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My original post wasn't all that clear and I've re-tweaked it.
My local UK shop is really a bike shop. But the owner prides himself on edge tuning by hand. The resort shop on the other hand was rather proud of its hi-tec robotic sharpening machine.
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@valais2, there was somebody on the EOSB 2016 who came up looking for help with edges that wouldn't hold (I was sharing an apartment with spyderjon). After messing around with a marker pen for a while, we figured that the only plausible solution was the shop had actually done the edges at 91 or 92 degrees because even at 90 we weren't removing the whole line. God knows how much material they stripped off in the process but it was a total abomination of a job.
So you say that you can't notice the difference between one or two degrees, but in the event that this UK-technician might have performed a similar atrocity, I think anyone might suffer from having reverse-edged skis.
@chomski, personally I think that whilst a hand tune can be better, both hand- and machine-tuning require a skilled operator with an understanding of what you're trying to achieve. Neither is inherently better in it's own right. The danger of machine tuning IME is that it's assumed that because the machine is doing the work, the job can be given to any shop muppet with no tuning knowledge.
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@Valais2. Plausible answers, thanks so much for taking the time.
Reason 1) would seem quite likely, except that the skis serviced in the UK in December had definitely been waxed, so not entirely forgotten. And last year, I used the skis for 3 weeks solid after their resort service and didn't notice any deterioration at the end of my stay. I also took them out for an hour or two in September to the snow dome and again they felt fine.
Assuming it was something to do with the angles, what if the the UK shop failed to put a bevel on the base and gave me a flat ski with horizontal base and 90 deg vertical side (as in top left figure below). That would presumably make it harder to get on the edges when turning? (I am an enthusiastic but not athletic skier)
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| chomski wrote: |
| [That would presumably make it harder to get on the edges when turning? (I am an enthusiastic but not athletic skier) |
No, (on firm snow) that would make the ski quite twitchy, as even the smallest amount of tipping the skis engages would engage the edges more than you might like at the start of the turn.
Did you check whether the base of the ski was perfectly flat? A ski base which is either concave or convex (due to a poor base grind or a badly maintained tuning machine) will make the ski much more difficult to control in the way that you are used to, and way more noticeable than badly tuned edges (unless things are catastrophically bad).
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I suspect a convex base, the bike guy edging the skis could have made it feel worse. A base grind in the shop sorted it.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I didn't get the impression OP was describing "hooky", quite the reverse...
Convex base seems more plausible although I don't quite see how you'd achieve that by hand.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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From the description, convex base sounds like the culprit. Hard to achieve by hand but not impossible.
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@gorilla, easy. Just overcook the base edge and you’ll eat your way into the base as well.
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You know it makes sense.
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@gorilla, @altis, surely you'd notice? e.g. file going black and clogged with ptex?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@under a new name, not if you’re not looking or you’re using a diamond file. If you’re leaning on the side edges it’s all too easy to get carried away with the bases too. At the common base angle of 1 degree, you only have to take the edge down 0.1mm to eat over 5mm across your base.
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Poster: A snowHead
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@altis, you wouldn't want to be doing that...
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FAQ
- im sure even you could feel that 
