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Vallee Blanche (studid question, great answers)

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
There's no such thing as a stupid question (if the question is real) Little Angel
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Very interested in reading this post cos we were up the Aiguille yesterday and watched many many people set off without guides. Viz was good and some people were better eqipped than others.

We certainly have the ability but want to know just how much pushing/climbing is invloved on the way down. Anyone know? We saw lots of skiers poling. Puzzled I wouldn't do it unless I had ARVA + gear.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Freestyle, We did some sort of alternative route last week (I think Grand Envers by the photos but don't know for sure...) although arriving where everyone else did.

We set off at about 10h00 skiing as rapidly as the guide would allow (we are all tolerably decent off piste skiers) had a reasonably relaxed refuge lunch and were back at Chamonix having walked some of the way to Planards by 16h45. Quite a lot of the way down was uphill/downhill in ski boots.

A lovely mountain day out by our standards....
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Not sure if it's been mentioned - I may have missed it in my skim reading. You can avoid the arrete if you go from the Italian side. The very top of that is a nice start and introduction before you reach the main route. The top section can be full of twisty, short steep turns and side slips etc. depending on the route that the guides have worked out (some guides have died or been seriously injured some years pathfinding these routes). After that it's generally flat and straight. Whichever side you start from you end up in Chamonix.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
I did this the other day, was superb

http://www.flickr.com/photos/aidanspics/sets/72057594111077499/

we took touring skis and skins etc. first we did the arret then traversed around under the aguile du midi, then a skin up to the Col du Calotte(i think!) (about an hour and a half's walk) then a ski down getting fresh tracks and pretty good powder (about 5 minutes!)

Then into the 'normal' route down the glacier to the montenvers train.

Fantastic day!
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David Murdoch,

I hope you walked out to the gullies again after lunch...tell me you did..??

fragglerock,

Sounds great but I'm trying to work out which lift you walked under to end up back at the train. I can't find my chamonix book...!!
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JT, It is the lift that takes you down to the ice grotto, when it was built the car took you down to the glacier but as the glacier retreats they keep having to add more and more steps below the bubble to get down to the ice.

Our guide could remember 'the good old days' when there was no bubble and only ladders bolted to the cliff! not fun in ski boots I imagine!
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
fragglerock, Dare i ask how your feet are? Little Angel
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The new boots are pretty great! However I am fairly sure that the gross blue toenails are going to fall off rather than grow out!

I will have to wear socks with my sandles over the summer!
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fragglerock wrote:
JT, It is the lift that takes you down to the ice grotto, when it was built the car took you down to the glacier but as the glacier retreats they keep having to add more and more steps below the bubble to get down to the ice.

Our guide could remember 'the good old days' when there was no bubble and only ladders bolted to the cliff! not fun in ski boots I imagine!


There are still some ladders bolted to the rocks further up the wall. I've been down them.
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fragglerock, I kinda guessed you'd wear socks with your sandals anyway, having seen your Bionic Man impression last week. wink
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
1999 I skied the VB from the Courmayer end. Hardest part was clambering over the metal gantry after the final lift.
Nothing tricky on the run itself, followed the guides tracks. Long walk up and out at the far end but could ski down into Chamonix for a beer waiting for bus back. Think it was the same year Chamonix had the terrible avalanche also prior to the Mont Blanc tunnel closing.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
I too wish to throw myself down the Vallee Blanche with a guide one day but was wondering about the arrete bit of it.

I'm not the best when it comes to walking across ridges, my only experience being Striding Edge on Helvellyn in a hail storm (and i am planning a trip across Sharp Edge on Blencathra, both in the Lake District). I know its a different scale but you can, and people have, died on both of these and this is what sends shivers down my spine while i'm hanging onto the wet granite trying to find a foot hold.

I've done quite a bit of off piste now, so the skiing is not an issue.

For anyone how has done the arrete and been up to the Lakes, how do they compare? Will i need to be doing Sharp Edge in my ski boots on xmas eve to get the full effect??
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Ski Bat, The arete on the VB is covered in snow (even in summer), so there are big steps cut into it - so it's very much a walk, rather than a scramble. There is quite a good view down (literally !) snowHead to Chamonix on one side, but much less exposure on the other. It's also not very long - less than 5 minutes.

Most likely your guide will have a rope to make you feel safer, but that isn't really necessary. The biggest hassle is dealing with everyone else !

You don't need to play on Striding Edge, Crib Gogh etc Sad to prepare for it - it's really quite a different (but not hard) experience.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Ski Bat, going from the Italian side completely avoids that part.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Ski Bat, I've done Striding Edge, Sharp Edge and the VB, and you can't really compare them - it's rock versus snow. If vertigo is a problem you're not going to like any of them, but the VB arrete path in spring is normally a trench maybe 2 ft wide and 3 ft deep, with a rope handrail on one side, and you'd have to be a bit of a donkey to fall over the edge IMO. If you go with a guide you'll be roped up anyway, so I would say it's less dangerous that Striding/Sharp Edge.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
We did the VB from the Italian side in the early 90's and can back up what Skanky says. The view from on top of the bubble station back down into Italy was amazing. Unfortunately, we picked a year with very poor snowfall and the run down was virtually all on hardpacked crudy snow or fozen crust. The views were spectacular, but the skiing was a bit of an anti-climax.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Ski Bat, it really is fine. I have added a couple of photos here to show you ]


Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Thu 27-04-06 11:27; edited 1 time in total
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Ray Zorro, no link, I think.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Oh right! i can definetly handle that. I thought it would be more exposed, and there certainly isn't a rope to hold onto on Helvellyn.

It's on my list of things to do, as soon as i can. Cheers. Looks fab BTW Madeye-Smiley
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Hi all,

I've always fancied doing the Valle Blanche, but the thought of all the other people really puts me off, I ski off piste to get away from the crowds....

Is there a way or route to do which avoids the crowds?

regards,

Greg
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
gregh, Yes, lots of variations. Glacier Rond, Cosmiques, Grand Envers being a few of the best. Not, however places to get lost. The standard Valley Blanche with either Rognon varient is within most off piste skiers ability. Little Angel
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
cheers SZK, maybe something to plan for my 40th next year, obviously with a guide, but specifically to do the variations.
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gregh, Greg, rather than take a guide and pay through the nose, why not invest in Glacier Travel and Snow Profiling courses? Each day you ski, have a guide and learn the trade. All this and it's around 70-80 euro a day, half the price of a guide for the day for say 2 'Blanches. Little Angel
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sounds like a cracking idea, was looking to do something different and snow related, any URLs I can look at?
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gregh, WWW.CHAMEX.COM

We do them each year, great start to the season. A must.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Very Happy thanks a bunch, now would just need a nice local shop to demo some wood core 80mm+ skis Wink
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
gregh,

Do Grand Envers and the gullies even if you have to walk back out from the hut.
I'll do it with you and if you want to do Cosmiques, even better...although I'm not sure quite what the commitment is there..!!
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Anyone know if the Valle Blanche is still open ?

Going to Cham this week and may have a look if the weather is OK.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Peter S, I don't have a proper answer to your question but teh Grands Montets is open until Monday 8th - when they have a great big party. Being strictly an off piste route I don't think the VB "closes" as such - as long as the Aiguille du Midi lifts are running and it's safe to do then I'd think it would be available. Certainly it was being done yesterday.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
David, thanks.

Just got back from Chamonix. A cracking week of weather with huge amounts of snow still left. Managed to ski down to Agentiere on Thursday and skied the Valle Blanche (well mainly the Glacier du Geant and Mer de Glace) on Wednesday. Relatively few people around but still in great nick except at the very bottom.

Evidence of recent collapse of some of the seracs at the main ice fall though.

Argentiere was preparing for the 80s freeride party on Monday whatever that is. Why Monday ? is that another Bank Hoilday in France.

looks like they are constructing a temporary pond just outside the Cable Car station at Lognon for some 'water skiing' !
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
I really can't see how this can be considered a stupid question. Far better to ask than make a (Potentially lethal) stupid mistake. Smart ass replies are likely to disencourage people from asking in the future, which i think would be a terrible eventuallity.

Im glad to see how many people have provided good advice and would encourage people to ask regardless of how stupid they (or other less helpfull types) may think the question. There will generally be someone here with an answer or at least be able to point in the right direction, which in my mind is a major reason for being for this forum. I fully intend to ask plenty of my own 'stupid' questions in the run up to next season Madeye-Smiley
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Ray Zorro, that's interesting - in summer 1976 I looked out of the tunnel and could only see a narrow ridge, about 2 ft wide with a huge drop on either side - could you elucidate?
Peter S, Yes - 8th May is a bank holiday.
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easiski, If you look in the 2nd of RaZ's photos (the one looking back up from the flat at the end of the ridge) you'll see a zig-zag line of peeps coming down on the north side of the ridge (right side of picture). It looks to me as if his closeup photo was taken about half way along the final leg of that route (just before it heads behind the snow mound). You will also see another path going more down the apex of the ridge (near the rock band), although virtually no-one on it - the line is much clearer coming in from the right of the closeup photo. The path cut in that photo looks about twice as wide as whenever I've been up there, but then I've normally been up there a bit earlier than the April high-season, and sometimes before this lower path is cut, when the only option is along the apex of the ridge. The bit you see from the end of the tunnel is the narrowest bit of the ridge before the paths divide, and it widens out pretty quickly (although does then get steeper - I always feel I would be more secure with crampons on, but the guides generally prefer punters to not have them).

I think that (as in the photo) they prefer to direct you down that northern path as, if you're a bit nervous of heights, you get the comfort of having the slope above you rather than thin air and so something to put a hand on (even though leaning into the slope is as big a no-no in boots as on skis), despite then seeing the slope drop away to Chamonix below you. I did try getting up there in Jan this year before they cut the path or put any of the protecting ropes up, which would have been fun, but the wind got up that day (>80 kph @ 4000m) so we had to call it off.

I've only looked out once in summer, and that was in total white-out so we lost sight of the groups of roped-up climbers heading out there after about 10 paces Sad . I think this was due to density of cloud, rather than them suddenly plunging 2000m!
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
GrahamN, So, can you now avoid the actual arrete?

what I saw was a path 2 ft wide with a small fixed line at about knee height. Very steep slopes on either side (I didn't exit the tunnel for obvious reasons). Anyway I've always assumed that I would never be able to ski the VB with my vertigo but if all this has changed then maybe it would be possible.
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easiski, The Arrete is fine. Crampons and a couple of shots of Fernet, you wuss. Little Angel
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
easiski, there is no arrete if you come up from Courmayeur and no reason why vertigo should prevent you doing VB from the Italian side.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
easiski, I didn't realise you'd never done it. I don't think anything has changed, but then I've never had a problem with the exposure there - but as I said I think the first few metres are probably the worst, and the best time to try it is probably April (best snow cover up high). As Derek Jackson says though, maybe the better solution for you is to try it from the Italian side - just needs a trip through the MBTunnel.
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You can (of course)...start at the Midi...ski/skin to the Hellbronner, drink an Espresso (in Italy after all), and then ski back to Cham. A perfect day ? snowHead
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ski, absolutely. Unfortunately the day we tried doing that the guide screwed up and didn't get us on a lift until nearly midday, so we didn't have time to get right over to the Italian glacier Evil or Very Mad . Doesn't avoid the arrete though, so doesn't help easiski (not sure she's really into skinning either Wink ).

easiski, I don't think I got back onto that "perfect runs" thread after going to LG. I'd agree with you about some of the Vallons de la Meije, but I think the VB still knocks the top half into a cocked hat. My fantasy skirun would be the top half of the VB and the bottom half of the Vallons de la Meije.
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