 Poster: A snowHead
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I'm sure there must be a thread on this but I can't see it...
Excellent stuff to watch. I thought the Finnish guy who got silver was a little unlucky - his run was breathtaking.
Also felt a little sorry for the 18-year-old Canadian lad who pulled a wonderful 1080 thingy off the last jump but didn't completely nail the landing. It seems that any slight mistakes really gets punished, which is a bit of a shame since this probably discourages the guys to really go for something special.
Great stuff anyway. Starting to feel happy that I'm unemployed at the moment!!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I thought that they deserved naming considering the entertainment they provided:
Finnish guy = Mikko Ronkainen
Canadian lad = Alexandre Bilodeau
Thanks guys 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I'm hoping to catch a replay..... as I didn't see it all but what a finish.. last guy down wins it!!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I just wish I had the time to do articles on the nordic and freestyle events as well at MySnowSports  .... yes great TV, the kids - straightforward middle-of-the-road alpine skiers - were glued to it last night.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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This sport looks really difficult, is this the toughest skiing competition out there? Their speed through the moguls in incredible. It also seems to destroy their knees, that can't be good in later life. What about the American who is going on to play pro NFL, that's a unusual combination of sports. No Austrians in the final, does anyone know the reason for this?
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alan empty, agree. The 'Canadian turned Aussie' eventual winner was also a little more conservative going for a plain backflip (what the ladies were doing!) off his 1st jump. The result in the womens was similar where I felt that the eventual winner was also more conservative in her approach to Miss Traa (I think she just did a 'simple' side-to-side twist on the 2nd aerial?). Reading up on it, it says that their aerial score is multiplied by the level of difficulty? Seems as though the distinction in the level of difficulty must be minimal compared to the distinction in marks between nailing it and not.
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I was well-impressed by the stance of the gold medallist. His upper body just didn't seem to move - it was all coming from the hips (I know that's the idea  ) Amazing stuff.
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alan empty, I agree, Ronkainen's run looked more exciting and (as far as I can tell as a non-freestyler) more risky than Begg-Smith's. But Begg-Smith was super-smooth. It will be interesting to get my friend Hugh Hutchison's opinion when I see him in a couple of weeks. Hugh is Britain's most successful mogul skier to date (competed in 92 and 94).
In the end, you can debate it all day - the drawbacks of a judged sport...
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Martin Bell wrote: |
| In the end, you can debate it all day - the drawbacks of a judged sport... |
Martin, yeah, I guess it could be seen as a drawback. On the other hand, most of us on here would probably see a chance at debating something all day as a positive!!
I'd be very interested to see what Hugh thinks.
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Does any website have the final available to download??
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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gregh, Begg Smith's run is available on the BBC website - but none of the other runs.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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If you want to debate the runs then go look at them again from the same angle as the judges see them - www.skidebosses.com is a site run by the French Team Coach and has video looking from the bottom. Then have a look at www.fis-ski.com and see the way the judges actually scored them. To try and answer some of the points above:
Dale vs. Mikko: http://www.fis-ski.com/pdf/2006/FS/8092/8092FRL.pdf
Mikko had a split on landing the top jump and didn't keep contact with the snow as well as Dale in the middle section so Dale scored 14.5 from the turns judges against Mikko's 13.6 (out of 15). The jumps judges scored the Dale's and Mikko's bottom jumps identically. The top jumps were scored almost identical on execution but as Mikko's is harder he ends up slightly with 0.5 more air points. If you look at the height Dale had and the size of the cross in the backflip then you can't argue that he should have scored anything less. Mikko was a touch faster giving him 0.3 more speed points. End result, Dale's turns took it and I agree. Mikko's was a really good run though.
Jenn vs. Kari: http://www.fis-ski.com/pdf/2006/FS/8089/8089FRL.pdf
Kari's top jump drifts to her left and she lands with her skis aiming right to bring her back into the line. The drift is energy that should have gone into giving her more height so she only scored 1.9 out of 2.5 for execution for this jump. Jenn's top jump was a simple but well executed 360, body totally straight. On the bottom jump both girls did the same jump but Jenn gets a bigger cross, although she only got marginally higher points. So Jenn up 0.27 on air. Jenn's turns after the top jump were more dynamic than Kari's. Kari lost speed because of her drift and then next couple of turns suffered. As a result Jenn got 0.4 more turns points and 0.18 more speed points. So Jenn won on all 3 aspects.
Alex: Alex is doing some amazing jumps. If you think they're good on TV then try seeing them from about 2 feet away. One to watch for 2010. Just needs to get a bit more consistent on the steeper courses.
I had money on Jenn, Dale and Alex as I new what they had been like this winter. I have actually been sharing Jenn's coach since Dec 2004 but Kari is a friend too (I predicted her to win in 2002 which is why I actually did put money on this time) so I don't think I'm too biased. I had considered backing Mikko but his form had been a bit off until he laid that run down when it counted.
Simon Bates
British Moguls Team (although Snowsport GB would rather I quit but that's a different story)
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You know it makes sense.
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simon_bates, Simon, welcome to SnowHeads! And, thanks for your analysis. I think, IMHO, that it illustrates why many SHs were perplexed with some of the results. As a competent recreational skier watching the events from a TV screen, the judging criteria is neither intuitive, obvious nor visible.
I (personally) consider bumps to be the epitome of competitive skiing, but if the mass media broadcast of such a top sport can't be optimised beyond this, I hold little hope...
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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simon_bates, Welcome to Snowheads - Great to have another top competitor as a member. (you may know a certain Mr Bell is a regular poster). Do the jumps score on a degree of difficulty basis? From the spectator point of view a rodeo (or any other invert) is much more impressive, even if the landing isn't perfect, than the best executed 360. I think it's amazing that anyone can go inverted and then continue to ski moguls!!!
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Poster: A snowHead
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simon_bates, great interview on Today programme this morning (see their listen again bit chaps to hear it). Keep up the good work. Shame the interviewer (was it John Humpheries, I wasn't paying much attention to him) referred to moguls as bumps covered with snow!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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stevew, I also thought Simon did well in the interview. Can't be a pleasant thought, having to go up against John Humphries first thing in the morning!
Welcome to snowheads simon_bates. Always good to have world class skiers contribute around here 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Welcome to snowHeads, simon_bates 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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simon_bates, do the judges have the benefit of slo-mo video to spot all these things happening. With my inexperienced eye (and watching on the TV rather than from the bottom of the run) all the points you listed happened way too quick for me to see.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Another welcome - and I also listened to the R4 Interview. Good stuff and well put. As was Eddie Edwards contribution the day before.
If you are the best in the country and meet the IOC criteria, you should be allowed to compete. Simple. Funding (or the lack of it...) is another story. This idea of the powers that be backing significantly only successful sports/athletes seems grossly unfair to me and does nothing to encourage new entrants.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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b]simon_bates[/b], welcome to snowheads, What is the funding issue 
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| stevew wrote: |
| Shame the interviewer (was it John Humpheries, I wasn't paying much attention to him) referred to moguls as bumps covered with snow! |
Why? Isn't that what they are?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
If you are the best in the country and meet the IOC criteria, you should be allowed to compete. Simple.
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Freestyle is not the only skiing event with qualification problems ( to say nothing of lack of funding!). Have a look at this article on the lack of British nordic competitors at the Torino olympics http://www.rollerski.co.uk/nx014.html .
Selected quotes.
"According to Simon Heard, one of the UK’s top cross-country skiers and, like Alan Eason, a former winner of the UK 15k classic British Championships race, the qualifying standards set by the BOA are absurd. ‘If the US set the same qualifying standards, only 3 out of 4 of their relay team would qualify. In British cross-country we stand no chance’. When talking to cross-country skiers from other countries Simon has been met with disbelief at the high British standards."
"Such tough conditions, and the lack of Olympic prospects, make cross-country skiing an uninviting proposition for aspiring elite athletes. If it wasn’t for the expectation of the same tough qualifying criteria for Vancouver in 2010, Heard, 26, would almost certainly continue training for cross-country ski racing. As it is, he plans to retire from competition after this season, and start training as a teacher in his home county of Devon. ‘There simply isn’t any point in continuing if the situation remains as it is.’ "
We have some really good juniors at the moment who are getting really good results, both nationally and internationally in their age groups impressing the likes of the Norwegians.
Dave
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simon_bates, interesting deconstruction of the scoring - thanks.
I remember thinking at the time that the side-on tracking camera angle didn't give a very clear indication of the size of the bumps or of how well the skiers were handling them - must go down as a failure by the host broadcaster.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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richmond, I'm not biting
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tell simon bates to go to australia.... worked for dale begg-smith 
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You know it makes sense.
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| stevew wrote: |
| richmond, I'm not biting |
Damn you, stevew.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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Martin Bell, Good article, but what made me laugh most was the the way that the reporting site, theage.com, uses a pop-under ad itself on the very page where it reports "Although they are a source of annoyance to web surfers ...." 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Patch, yes, I hadn't noticed because my computer had blocked it. "Do as I say, not as I do" from The Age!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| easiski wrote: |
| simon_bates, Welcome to Snowheads - Great to have another top competitor as a member. (you may know a certain Mr Bell is a regular poster). Do the jumps score on a degree of difficulty basis? From the spectator point of view a rodeo (or any other invert) is much more impressive, even if the landing isn't perfect, than the best executed 360. I think it's amazing that anyone can go inverted and then continue to ski moguls!!! |
For the women a 360 or backflip has difficulty of 1.390, off-axis 720 has 1.650. Form is out of 2.5, Jenn got 2.4x1.390=3.336, Kari got 1.9x1.650=3.135 for the first jumps. Jenn could have gone for harder tricks but she was going with the run that would get the most points.
The way it works out is that whatever you are doing, it must be clean. You'll have seen the same thing in the aerials. Going for harder tricks only works out if you nail it. And that's exactly what Alex did for his first World Cup win in Mont Gabriel but that was a flatter course.
One reason for the form being so strict is that it helps to keep things safer. If there were more points for hucking then there would be even more injuries. It's a tough enough sport as it is.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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simon_bates, Thanks.
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