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Idiots without / who can't put on chains & think winter tyres will be ok

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
DB wrote:
@rob@rar,
Really does sound like it either had poor quality / worn winter tyres or summer tyres on it.

Glad we agree snow socks don't perform as well as chains. We don't appear to agree that snowsocks are no better than winter tyres. I've put up a YouTube Clip to back up my claim ("do snow socks really work"), let's leave it at that.
Can't speak for the C-Class Merc, but I've been driving RWD 1 series (among others) BMWs in snow for years. Never had any complaints. Right now I'm using a X-Drive 2 series which is absolutely amazing, but that's a different story.
Having said that I have driven over the Julierpass in a snowstorm in a VW Golf with summer tires... We got over, just. Probably wouldn't have if I'd known they were summer tires mind. Small mis-communication between my girlfriend and me.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Been out in our E Class today at home with about an inch of snow, winter tyres, drives like normal. They make a massive difference.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Don’t think I should write about my Skoda here Toofy Grin


Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Fri 29-12-17 19:38; edited 1 time in total
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Tug of war tests, starts at around 1.40


http://youtube.com/v/FzoSG0TJF2M
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Our old 3 Series with RWD and summer tyres handled like Bambi on ice, I would regularly get hassled by elderly Micra drivers behind me.

I executed a complete tank slapper one Boxing Day and it took me 2 hours to dig it out of a minor backstreet in Manchester. When my OH spun it in the snow and ended up facing the opposite way, we decided to invest in winters- never snowed to any degree since in the UK.
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In Chamonix the weapons of choice for locals seem to be the 4x4 Dacia with businesses getting by fine with Kangoos.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@Weathercam, Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Yes, I understand that completely. There is of course a difference between being 'pretty damned sure' you can make it, and being 'so damned sure' that you leave the chains in the apartment. However, I'd be the first to admit that I'm really not qualified to comment when I'm sitting here in the slush of Berkshire at an altitude of 650 feet.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
@under a new name, @alti - dude, Why is it a poor analogy? I was making the point that there are times when descending that you don't know you need more traction until you lose it and then it's too late. i.e. failing to fit snow chains isn't just a question of not making it up the hill it could be far more serious. Both are safety aids that one might be wise to use before you need them. If, as I've shown in a previous link, that snow chains dramatically reduce stopping distance on packed snow then surely there are times when it would be sensible to fit them 'just in case' rather than only when you know you need them. [As I've made clear, only the driver who knows the conditions/car/route can really decide when they are necessary]
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[quote="DB"][quote="foxtrotzulu"]@DB,
Quote:



When the German equivalent of the AA/tested the snowsocks they lasted around 60 miles before they shreaded


I drive an old banger (Ford Fusion) I went for some winter tyres just before Christmas but they only had one left (very useful). Hopefully have more in the new year. I don't drive in the Alps this is just for at home in Scotland. As a stop gap measure I got a set of socks, these aren't drive for long distances on the motorways, there more of a get me out of a snowed up layby or car park type of thing. I doubt very much they'd last 60 miles but then I can't see any situation where I'd need to do that. If they get me off Glen Shee car park after a days skiing they'll have done their job.

When I lived in Germany in the mid eighties I don't think they had winter tyres we just carried chains and used them regularly. I found that they could wreak your tyres quite quickly and you couldn't go over 25mph with them on.
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Ski the Net with snowHeads
Well the way the feckin snow is falling at the moment, 22.30 going to be feckin mayhem tomorrow and no matter what set up you're driving you're going to get fecked if joining the hordes at all tomorrow 😀
I have 36hrs till I have to go over Col du Lautatet at 2059m on NYE it's the wind that causes carnage. Currently closed till NYE morning.
Enjoy Berkshire 😀
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Never used snow chains, and never needed to in Sweden as I’ve found winter tyres to be very effective, especially the metal studded ones (which aren’t allowed everywhere - banned in some city areas). But they are also good at clearing snow and gritting roads here.

Only had one memorable incident in Lillehammer, when I thought it would be nice to drive up to the hotel at the top of Hafjall for dinner in the evening, but a load of cars were stuck or putting snow chains on as the OP describes. We managed to cruise by, but after losing traction a couple of times, at 3/4 of the way up we decided to turn around and head down. I had pretty sweaty palms and was glad to get to the bottom.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Winter tyres were a godsend after weds dump, got a Berlingo so great clearance and with brand new winter tyres we cleared everything hassle free. Passed a BMW fitting chains but can only assume he was on summer tyres as it wasn't deep, just hard packed snow. We have winter tyres on in the UK over Winter anyway, seems sensible to me at least in the Pennines.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
@foxtrotzulu, because... it just doesn’t make any sense.

Seatbelts are secondary safety, in that you hope never to need them, but if you ever do, you’re glad they are there.

Chains, snow tyres and 4WD are primary safety in that in order, in that, you have decided to travel in an area with a reasonable likelihood of snow and ice and should be equipped accordingly.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
That said, I’m delighted by the 10cms in the last 4 hours, and have no intention of driving anywhere tomorrow.

Not because I’ll have any problems, but the roads are likely to be chaos. And I don’t have the patience.

Toot-toot!
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
4WD Panda with winter tyres and a set of cheap chains in the back can't be beaten IMO. I have winters on my FWD Golf and it does great in Belgium when all hell breaks out in a few cms of snow, but I wouldn't dare go into the mountains without chains in the boot and winter tyres on.


Last edited by Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name: on Sat 30-12-17 2:15; edited 1 time in total
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@under a new name, plus one - have no intention of mixing it with the numptie masses tomorrow 😀

Seriously think could be a major ball ache tomorrow.

And know this thread is now / should be amalgamated into Snowmaggadenmon, or however you spell it!

Signing out now. pissed of serre che 😀

Though just seen the mini bus snow chain thread 😀


Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Fri 29-12-17 23:18; edited 1 time in total
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
snowHead @Weathercam,
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Waffle wrote:
4WD Panda with winter tyres and a set of cheap chains in the back can't be beaten IMO.


The big advantage of the Panda 4WD is that it is light and has relatively narrow wheels. Heavy 4x4s are a liability if it is icy.
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@davidof, aye.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Personal experience is that a land cruiser with all the clever electronics and decent AT tyres plus chains is nowhere near as good as a subie with chains.

Think the weight and fat wheels don’t help in snow and ice and once you’ve got chains on then 4wd is largely irrelevant unless all 4 wheels have them on. 4wd doesn’t help with stopping either.

I always chuck chains on if it looks even slightly dodgy, takes 5 minutes and the consequences of going off the road where I live could easily be fatal and spectacular.
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Honestly, the best vehicle I have ever had in snow was a Moggie thou. I had a set of "town and country's" that went on in winter, and it never got stuck anywhere. I once got over Hartside to Alston when the road had been closed for 2 days, and didn't reopen for another 4 (I was in my 20's, and there was a party I HAD to go to. You see, there was this girl...............).
The tyres were so skinny they really cut into the snow.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
I think it's a cultural thing. In Finland I never saw anyone with chains, ever, although we had vehicles with decent tyres on. In Canada it's the same thing - never seen anyone putting them on, ever, in 30 seasons. And I've driven places tourists don't go. My mates have a cat operation, and there's a forestry access road. It's a dirt track with about 3m of snow on it. It's fine to drive up, although if the snow starts to come over the bonnet then you may want to back off until someone's ploughed it. I've never seen anyone up there with chains on - that would be just weird.

I'm not an expert on the Alps, although I have been trained in driving on snow etc. If your road is blocked by snow and traffic, then I'd just do exactly the horrendous thing people have mentioned - sleep in the car until it clears and then get on with it. Easy.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Feck a 4x4 the only thing that will get you going this morning is a bull dozer with rat tracks!

Don't think I've seen so much snow!

The road is deserted, truly bizarre ?????!!!!!

Dogs can't even get out to go for a pee!
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@Weathercam it is going to be a very interesting changeover day then. My current guests are there until Jan 2nd, I bet they're pleased.
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Lots of ploughs going up and down and more traffic on the road - I'll post more in the snowmaggedon thread as been nagging to mates in LG
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under a new name wrote:
@foxtrotzulu, because... it just doesn’t make any sense.

Seatbelts are secondary safety, in that you hope never to need them, but if you ever do, you’re glad they are there.

Chains, snow tyres and 4WD are primary safety in that in order, in that, you have decided to travel in an area with a reasonable likelihood of snow and ice and should be equipped accordingly.


I think we are on the same side of this argument. I’m saying that it’s daft to leave snow chains in the apartment, because they are a primary safety feature and it makes sense to fit them BEFORE you lose all grip and slide off the road. (Usual caveat - if you know your car, the conditions and the route, then it’s clearly up to you to decide whether you need chains or not. Those people are far better placed than me to judge. However........ Very Happy ...I’d argue that if you need a push to get the initial traction to set off then it’s hard to see you will have sufficient grip to stop effectively on the way back down.)
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
My French rental car has got a snowflake button by the gear stick, I'm going to press that, everything will be fine - just need someone to dig the car out of the snow...
wink
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
@foxtrotzulu, opps, sorry, yes, my misinterpretation. Embarassed

You are quite right, to the extent that if you are in a snowy area and have chains, they ought to live in the car so as to avoid that when you go to get them that you realise they are in the garage moment.

And if you need assistance to get going, you’ll need it again to stop...? Hmmm, I think with good tyres, if you need assistance, you don’t know what you are doing Shock and yes, I’ve seen “locals” in this situation too.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Reminds me of many years ago, early December in Sussex , when OH did the “make sure you remember how the chains fit the car” routine on a Saturday afternoon. Then put the chains back in the garage. We went out to supper twenty miles away, emerged at midnight to thick, unexpected, snow on the ground. I had volunteered to drive that evening so there we were down narrow country lanes, with Bury Hill ahead of us, and in the most stupid car we ever had - a Jaguar. How many times did he mutter, stupid b***ger putting those chains away on the way home.
Ours go in the car for the journey out now, and don’t come out again till home in the spring.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
My girlfriend is driving up from Provence to Alpe d'Huez tomorrow morning. She had Michelin Cross Climates fitted before Christmas and is buying a set of chains this morning.

I've been encouraging her to try fitting them today and pack gloves, torch, plastic sheet etc. I think the roads may be ok by lunchtime when she arrives but I'm going to clear my car in case an emergency trip down to Bourg is required Blush
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
boredsurfin wrote:
My French rental car has got a snowflake button by the gear stick


Are you sure it's not the aircon?
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
philwig wrote:
I think it's a cultural thing. In Finland I never saw anyone with chains, ever, although we had vehicles with decent tyres on. In Canada it's the same thing - never seen anyone putting them on, ever, in 30 seasons. And I've driven places tourists don't go. My mates have a cat operation, and there's a forestry access road. It's a dirt track with about 3m of snow on it. It's fine to drive up, although if the snow starts to come over the bonnet then you may want to back off until someone's ploughed it. I've never seen anyone up there with chains on - that would be just weird.

I'm not an expert on the Alps, although I have been trained in driving on snow etc. If your road is blocked by snow and traffic, then I'd just do exactly the horrendous thing people have mentioned - sleep in the car until it clears and then get on with it. Easy.


I have done that when crossing the border between Austria and Switzerland by the Fluela pass. (leaving St Anton and going to St Moritz next)

https://www.google.at/maps/@46.7472784,10.0420016,1995m/data=!

There was a snow storm, the visibility was about 5m and the road was covered in about a foot of snow and no snowploughs were to be seen. I pulled over in a lay-by, and got in the back of the van.



Turned on the music, warmed up, and had a great sleep with no traffic driving past. Absolute silence at night. Road was cleared in the morning, and I got into Davos for a McD breakfast.

Of course I should really have checked the weather forecast, but I had no internet access, and my German was not good enough to understand the weather forecast on the radio. This was in 2005 so things have advanced since then on the internet and mobile internet services. (or at least they are more accessible)

Getting from St Moritz to Verbier was another story. The weather was snowing heavily at the time, and the passes were all closed. Of course I did not check the weather forecast, and ended up getting snow blind driving in constant snow on minor Swiss roads only to reach closed road signs. Eventually, I did a large detour via Zurich and stuck to motorways (I had paid for my vignette so I made the most of it)


Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Sat 30-12-17 12:19; edited 1 time in total
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
snoozeboy wrote:
boredsurfin wrote:
My French rental car has got a snowflake button by the gear stick


Are you sure it's not the aircon?


If it’s an automatic, it reduces the torque to the wheels or damps it somehow to help reduce spinning.
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under a new name wrote:
snoozeboy wrote:
boredsurfin wrote:
My French rental car has got a snowflake button by the gear stick


Are you sure it's not the aircon?


If it’s an automatic, it reduces the torque to the wheels or damps it somehow to help reduce spinning.


I had an old volvo s70 and it had a winter button. It made the auto box pull away in 3rd gear.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
My 2p worth.

If the items on even clear roads are consistently below 7 celsius then use winter tyres. I use Michelin Crossclimate all year round in Scotland.

M+S tyres are not winter tyres. They are just chunky but still a harder compound than true winter tyres.

People need to learn how to pull away on snow. Rule number 1: don't touch the flipping accelerator, slip the clutch then feather the accelerator. If using an auto, let the auto get you going then feather the throttle. Not throttle the feather.
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I am curious , some mentions above of narrower wheels being better in the snow, I would have assumed bigger wheels, mean more rubber in contact with the ground = more traction ?
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
GlasgowCyclops wrote:
My 2p worth.
... I use Michelin Crossclimate all year round in Scotland.


Any good? I've been running two wheel sets since 2010 but considering a set of these instead when the existing summer tyres wear out.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
balernoStu wrote:
GlasgowCyclops wrote:
My 2p worth.
... I use Michelin Crossclimate all year round in Scotland.


Any good? I've been running two wheel sets since 2010 but considering a set of these instead when the existing summer tyres wear out.


I'd say they are 80% of a full summer tyre (and better than a mid range or cheap tyre) and about 75-80% of a full winter. I'm comparing to Continental winter contact and Goodyear Ultragrip8 or 9 can't remember.
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dublin2 wrote:
I am curious , some mentions above of narrower wheels being better in the snow, I would have assumed bigger wheels, mean more rubber in contact with the ground = more traction ?
.

As always - “it depends” on a car, its weight and electronics. For older and lighter cars without no electronic aid systems it was true. For modern cars it all need to be carefully balanced. It is not the rubber itself, bet rubber’s ability to trap snow in all the sips that provides adherence to a snowy riad surface. On black ice it is rubber and how soft it is. On a slushy road it is aquaplaning what is important and here width does matter but again it depends an a car and its wight as well
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red 27 wrote:
The most important technique in winter driving is to remember to call everyone else a numptie/muppet on a regular basis


Brilliant! Every time it snows we get lovely long posts about traffic jams, idiot drivers, wrong tyres, no chains or not putting their chains on in time.
There's nothing us BrIts like more. Bill Bryson observed it superbly in Notes From a Small Island when he describes about asking the British for advice on how to get to the coast, by car on a Bank Holiday Monday.
We love to pontificate about a good traffic jam and the reasons why.
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