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Helmets are a must.

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@Old Fartbag, Load of old tosh. Both t-bars and buttons use various support configurations.

Forgot my helmet one day last year and felt pretty self-concious of the fact, not only the safety aspect but because most others had a helmet on.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
P10DW wrote:
@Old Fartbag, Load of old tosh. Both t-bars and buttons use various support configurations.


I think the point is, that unlike other forms of lifts, T Bars can be installed using an A Frame, which is why they are often used on Glaciers.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
dp wrote:

The funny thing is that whilst people always present plenty of arguments as to why wearing a helmet won't help, nobody ever presents a valid argument about why you're better off by not wearing one.


Hats are more convenient.
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haigie wrote:
nelly0168 wrote:
......t-bars, so 1970s Scotland dahling Very Happy


eehhh... they're still here mate!

Lechbob wrote:
Maybe T-bars (and kids) should be banned.


T-bars should absolutely be banned.


There wouldn't be much skiing without them in Scandinavia...
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Boris wrote:
Mrs B was extremely glad of her helmet the day she bought it. "someone" pulled the chairlift bar down to soon and smacked her good and proper - oops


Happened to me too. But I hit my head more wearing a hard hat, so I think it's the extra dimension that causes this. That said I always wear a helmet when skiing becuase I didn't think otherwise when I learned, and it has benefits in terms of warmth and protection.
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Themasterpiece wrote:
But I hit my head more wearing a hard hat, so I think it's the extra dimension that causes this.

I definitely noticed that with both my ski and bike helmets. My "head" is a good bit larger so objects connect with it with higher probability!

While not an issue with bike helmet, ski helmet does inhibit hearing and peripheral vision. So I don't hear someone walking up behind me, or never laterally bump into me. Their skis connect with my helmet!

Yes, I thought about back protector from time to time.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
dp wrote:

The funny thing is that whilst people always present plenty of arguments as to why wearing a helmet won't help, nobody ever presents a valid argument about why you're better off by not wearing one.

Personal experience over 80+ weeks on skis, 0 head injuries, 1 neck injury that would have been worse if wearing a helmet.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Lechbob wrote:
agw wrote:
You sound as confused as Stewart Lee's nan! Razz

I am Stewart Lee's nan! Razz


Only on weekends (or so Wayne Rooney says) Madeye-Smiley
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@tangowaggon,
Hmmm... And because I have never had a fatal car accident there can be no risk of fatal car accidents?
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 Ski the Net with snowHeads
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Interesting study about risk compensation, suggesting protective gear increases risky behaviour even when there is no possibility the gear could provide protection.

http://www.bath.ac.uk/research/news/2016/01/25/helmet-wearing-risk-taking/

I would be interested to know whether there are more minor accidents due to people skiing outside their abilities now that helmets are commonly worn.
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 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
brokenbetty, First time I've seen details of that article on snowHead tbh I expected it to turn up sooner Madeye-Smiley and by a certain other person, which means he must have missed it Toofy Grin


Last edited by snowHeads are a friendly bunch. on Sun 24-12-17 15:10; edited 1 time in total
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
haigie wrote:
nelly0168 wrote:
......t-bars, so 1970s Scotland dahling Very Happy


eehhh... they're still here mate!

Lechbob wrote:
Maybe T-bars (and kids) should be banned.


T-bars should absolutely be banned.


Aye, I know, was trying - failing - to be ironic Very Happy
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Lemond wrote:
@tangowaggon,
Hmmm... And because I have never had a fatal car accident there can be no risk of fatal car accidents?


Quite. I should imagine most people on this forum have done more than 80 weeks of driving but wouldn't cease wearing a seatbelt if it was removed from law.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@Bones Ah sorry bout that. I think this sort of stuff is fascinating - how unaware we are of what lies underneath our "rational" thinking.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
brokenbetty, its not been posted before, ( edited my post above, as it didn't make sense wink ) so apologises not needed. I agree though that how our actions can be influenced can be interesting Madeye-Smiley
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
These days I get into a helmet debate every time I go skiing. Not because I enjoy helmet debates but purely because I don't wear one, never have (since the 70s) and never will. Some busybody always pipes up:

"You're not wearing a helmet"
"I know"
"What about Michael Schumacher?"
"He was wearing a helmet"
"Yeah but he would have died"
"Oh FFS"

etc etc, edited heavily, but you get the idea of my daily, if not hourly, chairlift chat. I'm sure I'm not suffering alone.

So I was talking to someone who knows about these things and he told me that the industry thinks it has reached 'peak helmet' - not helmets with peaks, but near-saturation level. Most people have one and few change them very often, if at all. Rental helmets are a disaster. So how effective are the old helmets anyway?

The real issue is that people don't use the grey matter their helmet is alleged to protect.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Re Schumacher I'd far rather have not been wearing a helmet than be in the state he's in.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
It's lovely to hear peoples opinions and stories.... Not boring at all..... Helps to broaden our understanding... A friend was riding horse at walk pace, no helmet.. Horse stumbled, friend, experienced rider, fell off, hit head on stone, freak accident said doctors. She half paralysed as result...... Risk reduction can help, why then seat belts?
BTW, after scoring a broken wing in April despite helmet and back protection, this year im up grading to full body armour Madeye-Smiley don't want no freaky stuff when I fall... Happy Christmas and wishing u fall free skiing
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Pruman wrote:
These days I get into a helmet debate every time I go skiing. Not because I enjoy helmet debates but purely because I don't wear one, never have (since the 70s) and never will. Some busybody always pipes up:

"You're not wearing a helmet"
"I know"
"What about Michael Schumacher?"
"He was wearing a helmet"
"Yeah but he would have died"
"Oh FFS"


Where do you get that? I've never had anyone comment if I'm not wearing a helmet.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Enjoy your freestyle Da viidoff.... Don't let folks hassle you, it's great we all have free choice in this issue unlike seat belts in automobiles.....also it is cultural.... In Australia we would never not wear a helmet on a bike now but that was not always so...
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ozibird wrote:
Enjoy your freestyle Da viidoff.... Don't let folks hassle you, it's great we all have free choice in this issue unlike seat belts in automobiles.....also it is cultural.... In Australia we would never not wear a helmet on a bike now but that was not always so...


Its not cultural, your parliament put a law in place mandating helmet use.

If you want to see "culture" determining bike helmet use, then look at the Netherlands where they value cycling and point a lot of transport infra cash towards it.

Personally, I think your parliament made a huge kneejerk error and based the law on questionable stats - but then I am on the other side of this debate, so I would say that !!

Merry Christmas
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
ozibird wrote:
Enjoy your freestyle Da viidoff.... Don't let folks hassle you, it's great we all have free choice in this issue unlike seat belts in automobiles.....also it is cultural.... In Australia we would never not wear a helmet on a bike now but that was not always so...

Wearing a bike helmet in the uk at <10'c is a horrible sweaty, itchy experience I can't imagine cycling in Australian heat, never mind wearing a helmet as well.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
@tangowaggon, contrary to what people imagine, I found wearing a helmet actually keeps me cooler than without. Though I have dark hair so silver/blond hair folks feels differently.
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 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
I wore a cycle helmet in Oman, we were getting 45 degree heat plenty often. (Trust me anyone would wear a helmet there if you saw the way the locals drive).

I found I also got a cool airflow over the top of my head. Although yes you still sweat like a sweaty thing helmet or not. I had this thing called a "Gutr" which is - as it's name suggests - basically a gutter on your forehead so the sweat runs down the sides of your face and not into your eyes. Little bit disgusting when the dust gets in and you've got this salty dusty sludge running down your cheeks.
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Ski the Net with snowHeads
Wearing a helmet probably saved me from a serious injury whilst not even skiing, I was standing at the mid-station of the Bollin-Fresse chairlift in Val Claret waiting for my skiing buddy and a sharp clump of ice fell on top of my helmet and left a small but deep dent in it.

I've worn a helmet for more than 10 years now but after that incident, I would not go back to a woolly hat!
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 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
I don't like wearing a helmet. It's a bit like driving in a standard car when one could be driving a soft top.
I've never had an incident where it has saved me from injury, in fact it is a rightvpai as the extra height often means my neck gets twisted when someone yanks the safety bar down early and whacks the helmet.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
@dp, sweat gutter is the reason I wear my helmet when going uphill on the MTB. It's the only thing that prevents all the goop from going in my eyes, which really burns like hell when it does happen (I think I have sensitive eyes).
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Frosty the Snowman wrote:
I don't like wearing a helmet. It's a bit like driving in a standard car when one could be driving a soft top.


I very well know the feeling you describe and I totally got that to begin with. I really did. It also made me feel claustrophobic, less aware of my surroundings, and trapped in a box. It made my hearing muffled and my head heavier to move which was disconcerting when searching for a quick glance over the shoulder.

I am not somebody who's always worn a helmet. I saw some guy bang his head on some ice* on the Sunday of my second trip, and when we went home on the following Saturday he hadn't woken up yet. So I started wearing a helmet.

It literally took about 3 days of wearing it to not even notice it anymore. That's why I'm an advocate. If you give a helmet a 5 hour opportunity, you will hate it. If you give it a 5-day opportunity, you won't even notice anymore.

*I remember his head hitting the ice so clearly. It was a horrible thing to see. It didn't really bounce, and I didn't really hear anything, but you could feel the thud the whole way through your body. And he just went lifeless. I actually thought he was dead. (To be fair I don't actually know if he survived - he didn't wake up before I came home). But just take my word for it, it really was horrible. It not only pushed me to wear a helmet, but as I result I also actively dislike skiing with anyone who doesn't wear one. I never want to see that again and I never want to have to deal with the aftermath again.


Last edited by So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much on Tue 26-12-17 14:41; edited 3 times in total
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Quote:

I had this thing called a "Gutr" which is - as it's name suggests - basically a gutter on your forehead so the sweat runs down the sides of your face and not into your eyes. Little bit disgusting when the dust gets in and you've got this salty dusty sludge running down your cheeks.


I’ve discovered an even better designed piece of equipment to prevent this, it’s called my eyebrow and i’ve even discovered two on my forehead, one for each eye Toofy Grin
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@Matrski, Toofy Grin yes wise-ass but maybe you should try riding a bike up-hill in 45 degree temperatures and let me know if they still cut the mustard!!!
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
A helmet keeps my head warm; those thick beanies never did it for me and they were scratchy.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person

@dp, 6 degrees cooler that day though picture was taken at 800m altitude, the ride involved 2800m of climbing over 120km and was on the back of doing 3 previous days of flat out riding, my eyebrows stood up to the task no problem Laughing
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@dp, Agreed- I don't really notice any difference in terms of field of vision/noise and spatial awareness when wearing a helmet. It takes a few days to get used to but I think its just a sensible thing to do in terms of reducing risk. I skied for a number of years wearing bobble hat(and other garments!) before switching to a helmet. I have also been a very keen road cyclist for 30 plus years, I began wearing a helmet c1995 and would now feel ridiculous without one. I know many cyclists who have been fortunate to avoid fatal brain injuries PARTLY because of their helmets (and other factors) so choose to wear a ski helmet.p.s. I don't advocate mandatory regulation, people definitely should have the right to choose to wear a helmet or not both sking and cycling- I choose to wear one because it makes sense to me.
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@Matrski, fair enough... maybe you have better eyebrows than me. When I was riding my bike there, it ran down my nose into the corners of my eyes and really stung (partly because as I alluded to, it was so dusty there that it'd mix with the sweat and form a horrid sludge). The gutter sorted it out. But since it was running down my nose that was the problem - are you sure you actually have two and not just the one? Toofy Grin
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Reasons not to wear a helmet? Look at all the accidents that happen to all the folks wearing them ( listed here in this thread ) Very Happy . Joking aside, wear one if you want. I have a lovely collection of woolly hats that I can wear to suit the conditions, and if its really nice I can not wear a hat at all. As others have said above, I also started skiing way before helmets in 1980, and I just don't see a reason to start now. The only person I knew then who wore a helmet was Konrad Bartelski - so that really dates me.
To add to the anecdotes, my wife, who is an excellent skier, started wearing a helmet last season after skiing for 37 years without one - result? She was taken out by a skier from behind (also wearing a helmet) and suffered a sinus fracture. Coincidence? Who knows. I am still not convinced of the benefits. Helmets started to appear in numbers about 15 years ago? Where is the big decline in head injuries to evidence their wearing ? It doesn't jump out of the statistics - from what I have read of the reports every report has some level of ambivalence around them.
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I resisted getting a helmet for all the reasons listed above....of the 45 years that I've been skiing, I have worn a helmet for about 8.

Back in the day, helmets were heavy, restrictive and with no ventilation....and made you look like like a human cannonball. It also didn't help, that most of the people (that weren't kids or racers) that wore them, were middle aged men, with "all the gear and no idea"....rather like a MAMIL on a 5k racing bike, who just uses it to pose.

Current helmets are a revelation compared to what was available back then...light, often with ventilation that can be operated with the push of a lever and available with soft ear covers. My current one from Salomon, is both warmer and cooler than a Miggy (Donegal slang for a woolly hat) and doesn't restrict my hearing.

I always insisted my kids wore a helmet and wouldn't have got on a horse without head protection....so finally logic prevailed...and I now wouldn't ski in anything else.
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Hi All

So I have been skiing for over 30 years and have never really worn a helmet. OK so I did wear one in Morzine about four years ago for one run - deemed it to be far too hot and never wore it again. However, this year we were invited on a parents / pupils school ski trip. I decided that if I was seriously expecting my son to ski in a helmet I really had to do the right thing and also get one. So off to the January sales I went and I skied for the first time in a helmet for a week for my January trip to Serre Chevalier. I really found the latest helmets more comfortable, better ventilated and generally much lighter. I was slightly dreading the March trip when I knew it would be much warmer - however again it was simply not an issue. I now ski all the time with a helmet and would advise those SH's who are still not sure to just give it a go and see how they get on.

Griggs
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Griggs wrote:
.. I really found the latest helmets more comfortable, better ventilated and generally much lighter. ....


And so probably less effective? I know they meet the CE tests ... but so did Volkswagen diesels.
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@achilles, no less effective. Helmet technology has simply moved on.

One of the big differences in relatively recent years is the realisation that the best way to get a helmet to protect you is for a helmet to absorb as much of the energy as possible - and this is generally done through deformation of the helmet. Old helmets were designed to protect against repeated impacts whereas modern helmets are designed to deform under one impact and be thrown away.
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I can't comment on whether they are now less effective. Possibly as the weight has decreased the actual material the helmet is constructed from has become stronger so the overall effect is a lighter helmet - it is a bit like Head putting Graphene in their skis rather than Titanium that was previously more widely used. I hope that my helmet never has to used "in anger" so to speak but I would like to think that it would lessen the impact to my skull bone in the event of a trauma to that area.
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