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The Cross Country / Nordic Ski Thread 17/18

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Oh well lesson postponed till tomorrow due to the fresh snow Sad
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
abc wrote:
@OwenM, do you feel the extra weight if you leave the skin on in say, rolling terrain?


No, their only about 40g each. XC back country kit is a bit heavier than track kit but the skins are so light you don't notice them.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Booked for me and my 9 year old son to do try cross country on the weekend, a couple of hours north of Stockholm which seems to be the closest place with good tracks at the moment. Will report back
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Intended to go to Pila today, it was bonkers at the lift, monster queues, car park full etc. Decided to go for a fond instead. Had a lovely few hours up at Pont, it’s at 2000m so a bit chilly. Did a few laps and retired for coffee and jam pastries. I gave Mrs jbob 10 Euro to pay and got 6 change! good old italy. Even saw a bit of wildlife in the form of a large fox.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Was walking up some hills near the Struie (~ 20 miles north invrnss) last weekend and came across quite a few 3 or 4 sets of xc trails. Was very jealous as wished we'd had ours as would have made getting up (and down) the estate tracks a bit easier.

Starting to look at getting some Nordic backcountry skis to keep up in Scotland for the winter; wider than regular xc and also have metal edges as well as being a bit more robust but boots are similar.

Anyone tried them ?
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I was walking past a charity shop on the isle of man yesterday and saw two sets of cross country skis in the the window, adult and child, and poles, I think they were £50 for the lot. The adult ones were fischer. Just a weird thing to see in Douglas Very Happy
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
jbob wrote:
Intended to go to Pila today, it was bonkers at the lift, monster queues, car park full etc. Decided to go for a fond instead. Had a lovely few hours up at Pont, it’s at 2000m so a bit chilly. Did a few laps and retired for coffee and jam pastries. I gave Mrs jbob 10 Euro to pay and got 6 change! good old italy. Even saw a bit of wildlife in the form of a large fox.


Have you tried Cogne ? Some lovely routes up there
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
@dsoutar, yes I really like Cogne, but we’ve keep away this week due to the crowds.
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dsoutar wrote:


Starting to look at getting some Nordic backcountry skis to keep up in Scotland for the winter; wider than regular xc and also have metal edges as well as being a bit more robust but boots are similar.

Anyone tried them ?


Yes there what I use.
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@OwenM,

Can you tell me a bit about them, what are their limitations, what sort of terrain you use them on please.

I've skied on normal alpine and xc track skis for more years than I care to remember (and also touring skis to a much lesser degree) so intrigued to know what advantages / disadvantages they have from someone who has used these
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They're very similar to track skis except you won't get so much glide as their wider but they're more stable, less wobbly ankles. Also they won't sink into deep snow as much. They're best suited to rolling hills rather than steep rocky ridges, the Cairngorm's are ideal. Uphill and on the flat they're just like track skis, downhill you won't get anything like the control of a downhill ski. Really you have to plan you route to take advantage of long gentle descents in a long steady schuss. For turns try steep turns - as you do your diagonal stride just steep your lead ski around a bit. A little faster is the skate turn, like a steep turn but with more speed and style. After that the Stem Christie is my favourite it takes a bit more balance than on downhill skis but will get you down most things. You could try a telemark but without high stiff boots they're very difficult.
Braemar Mountain Sports or Cairngorm Mountain sports in Aviemore are about the only places that stock the gear - or have anything more than a vague clue as to what it's all about. I think there's a Nordic/backcountry ski club in Inverness if your up that way.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
I've just replaced my 195 fisher fibre crowns with 207 skis as I found the 195 a bit short. I’m getting a lot more glide but not the extra grip I was hoping for.
If anyone wants to buy the 195s let me know. They are in Aosta but I go to chamonix quite a bit.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Reporting back on our first cross country experience. I managed to rope some friends into it, so there was four adults and three children. We spent the morning at Högbo Bruk - a beautiful place actually - two hours north of Stockholm. Hired all the equipment there (classic skis with the skins) and we an instructor for 75 minutes.

Overall it was a great experience. Fun, but a lot more technique and balance than I was expecting. The instruction was invaluable IMO. It was quite busy - I knew x country is popular in Sweden, but I didn’t think so many people would be out. But I think it’s probably the closest place to Stockholm, Uppsala, Gävle, with decent snow and tracks at the moment. I was expecting everyone to be experts, but thankfully it wasn’t the case. People of all ages and ability, just out getting some exercise and enjoying the nature.

A morning was a good introduction. All the kids seemed to enjoy it too, so need to think about planning to do some more.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
dsoutar wrote:

Starting to look at getting some Nordic backcountry skis to keep up in Scotland for the winter; wider than regular xc and also have metal edges as well as being a bit more robust but boots are similar.

Anyone tried them ?

That pretty much all I use lately.

The metal edge add quite a bit of weight, which is noticeable. And as mentioned, it’s slower due to the (typically) longer fishscale.

On the plus side, 1) it’s wider, so naturally more stable. 2) the metal edge means you have fair bit of control even when icy 3) it’s usually size on the short side, so easier to turn.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
There's a good refreeze at the moment, so chance to do a bit of crust skiing on the snow covered marshes

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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@abc, those skis sound interesting. Could you post a link to the sort of thing you have?
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@Weathercam, how did your skating lesson go?
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Too snowy so we went powder skiing!!!
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Here are some good skills


http://youtube.com/v/AAYqmO3QElQ
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Very impressive, but he certainly wouldnt have been unable to avoid the people at 1:13 had they turned suddenly
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pam w wrote:
@abc, those skis sound interesting. Could you post a link to the sort of thing you have?


http://www.braemarmountainsports.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=288_374
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Themasterpiece wrote:
Very impressive, but he certainly wouldnt have been unable to avoid the people at 1:13 had they turned suddenly


Yes, good point, he's a bit close and might surprise other piste users.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Themasterpiece wrote:
Very impressive, but he certainly wouldnt have been unable to avoid the people at 1:13 had they turned suddenly

With ease Wink You would be surprised how easily you can move around... or in worse case over them once you are on xc skis Wink
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Strangely hypnotic, anyone want the 1 hour version?


http://youtube.com/v/hCMmN70CuPk
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Yes have all the gear but lesson postponed due to too much powder to be had 😎

Now off to 🇯🇵 so nothing on the horizon for a couple of weeks.....
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Any opinions on buying cross country skis second hand or online versus new in the shop and getting them properly assessed for weight etc? It seems to be a two person job to assess (slide a gauge under the ski) and a fine line between being able to glide on one ski but also kick.

Trying to decide to wait until after vasaloppet and pick up new in the shop in the sales, or buy some now.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
pam w wrote:
@abc, those skis sound interesting. Could you post a link to the sort of thing you have?

This is what I have: https://www.rei.com/product/742689/rossignol-bc-65-positrack-backcountry-skis

(the width is crucial, if you need it to fit inside normal tracks in touring centers, I think 60 or 65 are the narrowest metal edged ones)

Fisher is the other big brand. I’ve used it once. I actually like it even more, in normal snow. Shorter fishscale, glides better. But obviously not as good in icy conditions which is what I encounter a lot.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
@ Themasterpiece

I would always buy new and at a shop/store that will weight test for your weight. Some brands like Madshus will label their skis with a weight range like 65-75kg etc and some others with be labelled soft, medium or hard/stiff.

I’ve bought all of my skis from XXL here in Norway and they do very good offers on ski packages. xxl.se
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
davidof wrote:
Themasterpiece wrote:
Very impressive, but he certainly wouldnt have been unable to avoid the people at 1:13 had they turned suddenly


Yes, good point, he's a bit close and might surprise other piste users.
looks like a very slow section, possibly a green transport route, as people are just standing straight up, and he has to give his cameraman a "lift" after that point, so I doubt people would be turning on it.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Sack the Juggler wrote:
davidof wrote:
Themasterpiece wrote:
Very impressive, but he certainly wouldnt have been unable to avoid the people at 1:13 had they turned suddenly


Yes, good point, he's a bit close and might surprise other piste users.
looks like a very slow section, possibly a green transport route, as people are just standing straight up, and he has to give his cameraman a "lift" after that point, so I doubt people would be turning on it.


but I think the general point for us "average" skiers of not skiing too close to people is a fair one.

There was an exciting finish in the Women's mass start at Ruhpolding this week as three of the best ladies in Biathlon went neck and neck into the last shoot behind "new" Canadian girl Rosanna Crawford who went clear on the 4 shoots. If you don't know the skiers the rivals were the "ice queen" Kaisa Maikareinen, at 35 the oldest skier on the WC circuit, the young German ace Laura Dahlmaier, one of the most stylish skiers currently (and a good high mountain climber and cyclist) and the Princess of Sochi Dayra Domracheva.


http://youtube.com/v/Domh4lxK4RA
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 Poster: A snowHead
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Was out this evening for a quick hour tour on my new (bought last year in the sales) Atomic Skintec skis.

These are replacing my Madshus wax skis. Nice not having to wax before.

Route with a couple of pictures can be viewed on my Strava

Done the same route on Saturday skate skiing. Route can be viewed here.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Spoon wrote:


Route with a couple of pictures can be viewed on my Strava

Done the same route on Saturday skate skiing. Route can be viewed here.


Cool
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@Spoon, not a lot of difference in pace between the two ???
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One of those nordic days 3, not the best in the series but you get the Italian women's ski team dressed as nurses as a bonus!


http://youtube.com/v/cYgBULKhwdk

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@davidof thanks.

@Weathercam

I’m not surprised that both where nearly the same pace. I’m not that good at skate skiing!

It was my first time ski skating for over 2 years so I’m a bit rusty (or just getting old!).

I’ve also not waxed my skis (just a quick coating of spray wax before) and the snow was a bit soft and wet at that time too.

Need to work on my technique. I can v1 (double pole for two skates) well but just can’t get the timing right to v2 (double pole for every skate) for more than 10-12 strokes.
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abc wrote:
pam w wrote:
@abc, those skis sound interesting. Could you post a link to the sort of thing you have?

This is what I have: https://www.rei.com/product/742689/rossignol-bc-65-positrack-backcountry-skis

(the width is crucial, if you need it to fit inside normal tracks in touring centers, I think 60 or 65 are the narrowest metal edged ones)

Fisher is the other big brand. I’ve used it once. I actually like it even more, in normal snow. Shorter fishscale, glides better. But obviously not as good in icy conditions which is what I encounter a lot.


Hi ABC, this is the sort of skis I am looking at

http://www.braemarmountainsports.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=288_374_381
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Spoon wrote:


Need to work on my technique. I can v1 (double pole for two skates) well but just can’t get the timing right to v2 (double pole for every skate) for more than 10-12 strokes.


I guess no need to bother you with V2 Alternative then?

You need to find a large, flat area and then ski without poles - try clapping for the pole plant, this should help with timing and balance. Remember the plant is during the push with the leg not when you put your feet down.

This series has some good drills:-

http://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLMUuC-couB8jr0eZBKl7ZbGYtqkmugwYQ

the "swimmer" is good training for V2


http://youtube.com/v/-26aMn4oHWc

and the tic-tac


http://youtube.com/v/mwnT2L2B6_g

notice the clap during the glide (front and behind), this would correspond to your pole plant, you see the glide ski is not yet on the grounds when you plant the two poles (clap).

I suspect your glide is not long enough which is a balance issue, hence the no pole ski drills in a safe environment. The short glide is probably not giving you enough time to pole plant.

As for pace, a good classic skier will be almost as fast as a skater, perhaps -15% margin. That is they will average around 22-25km/h.


Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Thu 18-01-18 13:58; edited 4 times in total
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
davidof wrote:
Sack the Juggler wrote:
davidof wrote:
Themasterpiece wrote:
Very impressive, but he certainly wouldnt have been unable to avoid the people at 1:13 had they turned suddenly


Yes, good point, he's a bit close and might surprise other piste users.
looks like a very slow section, possibly a green transport route, as people are just standing straight up, and he has to give his cameraman a "lift" after that point, so I doubt people would be turning on it.


but I think the general point for us "average" skiers of not skiing too close to people is a fair one.

There was an exciting finish in the Women's mass start at Ruhpolding this week as three of the best ladies in Biathlon went neck and neck into the last shoot behind "new" Canadian girl Rosanna Crawford who went clear on the 4 shoots. If you don't know the skiers the rivals were the "ice queen" Kaisa Maikareinen, at 35 the oldest skier on the WC circuit, the young German ace Laura Dahlmaier, one of the most stylish skiers currently (and a good high mountain climber and cyclist) and the Princess of Sochi Dayra Domracheva.



Yes, I'm a keen follower of the IBU WC (apart from the people on here I know of no others)

Last weekend in particular had some fantastic viewing. And previously the fog bound Oberhof also provided some exciting racing; albeit perhaps a little unfair
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davidof wrote:
Spoon wrote:


Need to work on my technique. I can v1 (double pole for two skates) well but just can’t get the timing right to v2 (double pole for every skate) for more than 10-12 strokes.


I guess no need to bother you with V2 Alternative then?

You need to find a large, flat area and then ski without poles - try clapping for the pole plant, this should help with timing and balance. Remember the plant is during the push with the leg not when you put your feet down.

This series has some good drills:-

http://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLMUuC-couB8jr0eZBKl7ZbGYtqkmugwYQ

the "swimmer" is good training for V2


http://youtube.com/v/-26aMn4oHWc

and the tic-tac


http://youtube.com/v/mwnT2L2B6_g

notice the clap during the glide (front and behind), this would correspond to your pole plant, you see the glide ski is not yet on the grounds when you plant the two poles (clap).

I suspect your glide is not long enough which is a balance issue, hence the no pole ski drills in a safe environment. The short glide is probably not giving you enough time to pole plant.

As for pace, a good classic skier will be almost as fast as a skater, perhaps -15% margin. That is they will average around 22-25km/h.


Thanks for the YouTube link. I’ll be trying the clapping exercise the next time I’m out.
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Spoon wrote:


Thanks for the YouTube link. I’ll be trying the clapping exercise the next time I’m out.


another thing to aim for is to bring the feet as close together as possible, you can touch your boots, this gives you more room for the push phase. The foot should be planting inside the hips and you land slightly on the outside edge, the ski will automatically flatten and this gives you a better glide and kick as you transfer weight onto the inner edge.

The one thing I hate with skating is everyone uses different terminology for the same technique: V2, One skate, Pas de patineur 2 temps etc, Gear 3!
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