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Salomon S/LAB Shift binding

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@Oceanfalls, No, I’m waiting. I’ve has a fib fracture since I posted that, so I can’t run higher DINs at the moment anyway. I’m sticking with my F12 for now.
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@Scarlet, thank you for response. Sorry to hear about fracture. Best wishes for full & rapid recovery.
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@spyderjon, Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge.
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anyone know what the delta (in mm) is on the Shifts if flat mounted?
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@skimottaret, with rockered touring soles there's definitely a bit of ramp. Can't tell you how much how much, but it's noticeable - though also (for me anyway) noticeably less problematic than on dynafits. I seem to adjust much quicker - while I do have to work a bit more to avoid getting kicked backseat, it doesn't *feel* as weird. If that makes any sense?

Honestly, I've been skiing this binding a lot lately, and for me it completely lives up to the hype going downhill. Piste to pow, I could quite happily only ski this binding on all my skis, all conditions.

I've only done one short tour with it. No complaints so far - but I do wonder if I will miss higher risers on steeper terrain. Seems like a stupid omission.

Oh yeah, and there brakes are kinda annoying... Once the skis are clipped together base to base, I have to release each brake manually before being able to pull the skis apart.

But other than those niggles, really really happy with the binding.
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@clarky999, if you trim/chamfer the plastic on the inside where the metal shaft goes I'm. Doesn't need much and they separate normally.
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@skimottaret, I have about 4mm with a Lange XT Free measured from the AFD contact point and the rear of the heel piece. As the heel piece slopes it would be less if measured from the front. TGR said 1mm and I think the discrepancy between the measurements is explained by where people have measured from.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
@skimottaret, 2mm delta with an alpine boot going to 8mm delta with the AFD to it's lowest which is were it is with my Mercury AT boots. Actual delta is very much boot sole dependent. Straightforward to shim the toe, especially if using QK inserts as the longer screws are a doddle.
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From originally hating the brakes locking together I actually sort of like it now..... Stops the skis sliding around when together and it's 2 seconds to unclip them.
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Meltus wrote:
From originally hating the brakes locking together I actually sort of like it now..... Stops the skis sliding around when together and it's 2 seconds to unclip them.

A lot depends upon the width of the gap between the ski edge/sidewall and the inside of the brake arms as you whether the lock-up is 'over zealous'.
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@clarky999, @spyderjon, @gorilla, thanks guys am seriously considering a set of these at the end of the season... Have completely lost faith in the Beast bindings and need to replace. On Plum guides this week and liking em so far Smile
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
spyderjon wrote:
Oceanfalls wrote:
spyderjon wrote:
Scarlet wrote:
I notice the DIN starts at 6. Is this the normal range for pin bindings? (I'd set a 6 in a pinch, but no higher.)

Nope.

Remember that this isn't a pin binding when in downhill mode, it's an alpine binding. In uphill mode the pins are locked on to the boot toe and your heel is free as no release is wanted as the brakes are locked up.

They'll launch 'em first for the gnarly freeride touring market so 6-13 is for that sector but then they'll do a 4-11/12 version.


Having read this thread, Spyderjon, what is the likelihood of the lower DIN setting Salomon Shift/ Atomic being introduced next year? Salomon Shift seemed a safe option for me as release is a priority as I have one partial knee-replacement and am new to ski touring. Hi Scarlet, did you find an alternative or are you waiting? Cool <60kg female long-time lurker but seldom poster

There's strong rumours in the trade of a lower din version and Cody Townsend (Salomon Pro rider and Shift flag flyer) recently posted on TGR that they will. It's the annual trade show in less than two weeks so I'll find out the full details during my appointment with Salomon UK then.

Be cautious of the "alpine binding" safety claims of the Shift/Fritschi Evo & Tecton as lateral release at the toe is preferable to mitigate against tib/tib fractures but a lateral release at the heel is preferable to mitigate soft tissue injuries - so if you already have a knee issue I'd be looking at a Dynafit Radical 2 ST/Rotation ST (4-10 din) that has both lateral & vertical release in its heel combined with a rotating toe to give the eleasticity that the fixed tech toe designs don't give. The alpine binding manufacturers have been complicit over the years in basically ignoring the ACL/MCL injuries as their products are designed to protect against tib/fib fractures. The only binding specifically designed to mitigate against knee injuries is the KneeBinding alpine binding that has the usual alpine binding lateral release in the toe and vertical release in the heel but then it has an additional straight lateral release mode in the heel, which is what's required to protect the knee/soft tissues. And the nearest current tech binding to that is Dynafit Radical 2/Rotation. The Dynafit Beast 14 also does it and that goes down to 5 din and it's a fantastic binding but it's now discontinued and although the last ones are being sold off dirt cheap it's quite a lot heavier than the Rad 2 and doesn't have a true flat tour mode.

Just back from the annual SLIDE trade show were Salomon confirmed that the Shift is unchanged for 19/20 and that a lower din version will not be available in 19/20.
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Some more Shift chat here. We like ‘em!

https://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=141256&highlight=
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@skimottaret, they're easy to shim.

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@spyderjon, looks good and shouldn't affect the crampon usage I recon. Will be ordering some in Spring when the new Dynastar stuff comes on line Smile
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 Poster: A snowHead
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Which width Shift binding would you recommend for a Head Kore 99mm ski? The 100mm or the 110mm?
Would the 100mm work safely?
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And is there any difference whatsoever between the Atomic Shift and the Salomon Shift? Some places sell one or the other or both. Are they not the same company anyway?
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@VolklAttivaS5, the inside dim of the levers is 8mm wider than the stated width so I'd choose the 100mm brake and give it a slight tweak as the 110mm will be on the wide side which although fine on the down could catch when in tour mode.

The two brands are identical other then colour, ie blue/black for the Sallie and black/white for the Atomic version.
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@spyderjon, ok thanks very much.
Presumably on that basis then the 90mm Shift will be best if I get a Kore 93 instead of the 100mm?
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VolklAttivaS5 wrote:
@spyderjon, ok thanks very much.
Presumably on that basis then the 90mm Shift will be best if I get a Kore 93 instead of the 100mm?

Yep.
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@VolklAttivaS5, I'm using the 100 mm brake on a Kore 93 (sharing with a wider ski) and not had any problems yet but the arms do stick out a fair amount so if it wasn't skiing double duty I'd prefer the 90 mm brakes.
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@mgrolf, I’m now looking at getting the Scott Slight 100-subject to trying them out tomorrow-so I will get the 100 width Shift especially as in my required length the Slight is actually 98 underfoot=plenty of leyway based on earlier discussions.

Question:-My existing ski dimensions are 132-94-116
The Slight dimensions are 137-98-127

I already have some Colltex skins cut precisely by a shop which are in good nick as they’ve only been used say a dozen or so times on my existing set up. Does it really matter if there is therefore 2.5mm difference each side at the tip, 2 mm difference each side under the foot and 5.5mm difference each side at the tail? The length of the Slight is the same as my existing skis. The tails will be up away from the snow slightly anyway as they are now.

I haven’t skinned very often up until recently so if I can get away with using my existing skins then that will save me buying new ones. I will be doing more skinning though now I’ve got the bug!

Will they be ok for now? I suppose I can try my existing skins and if it’s rubbish I can buy more then?
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@spyderjon, assume with an alpine boot I need to raise the toe lifter to the max to ensure a good boot grip?
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@VolklAttivaS5, it'll depend on the skin track, a well defined track won't be a problem, nor will a fresh track in soft snow, however an off-camber traverse on hardpack will leave you reaching for your ski crampons!
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@KenX, ok, good advice, thanks. I know what you mean as on Friday I met some icy bits for the first time as I’d only ever done it in fresh/soft snow before and I was thinking ‘ah now I know why you’d want the crampons!’ (which I have for my existing set up but didn’t need to get them out)
I will need to get some Shift crampons as well then once I’ve sorted the ski choice out.
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I tried a Scott Slight 93 today 170 length and thought it was a bit too soft for me? And for a 170 length it felt way shorter. I ski a 168 Scott Layla at the moment and they felt shorter than them. I can only assume it must be the design of the Slight to ski a lot shorter for its length?
The thing is it had ATK RT pin bindings on it (thought the brakes were rubbish on them by the way) am I right in thinking that an alpine frame binding like the Tour F10s I have now make a ski feel a bit stiffer/more damp than the same ski with a pin binding on it?
That was the first time I’d tried pin bindings today.

I also tried a Fischer 90Ti Ranger in 172.
They seemed stiffer than the Slights and I preferred that. I don’t think I had a fair test on those though as there was something hooky about the shovels on both skis like the edges were too sharp or burrs had been left on them. I’ve experienced that before and it was the same sensation.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Have ordered my skis. Went for Scott Slight 100 in the end with Shift 100 bindings.
They will be here next week so once I’ve tried them I will feedback about the Shifts
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So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
I’m about to order a set of these to use with a pair of Mythique 87CA’s. I can have the Salomon version in 100mm or the Atomics in 90mm. Which would be better? I’ve read with interest about the brakes tangling, so wonder whether the extra 10mm on the Salomons would partially mitigate this. The Salomons are blue so match the skis also, but that’s not a factor obv...

Thoughts welcomed.
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You know it makes sense.
My new Scott Slight 100s arrived yesterday afternoon so it’s the first day out on them today with the Shift bindings.
Luckily it’s a powder day so I was on the lift at 8.40!
It’s very light powder indeed but not much of it, must only be 5cm but I’m not complaining!
The Scott Slight skis were fantastic as soon as I clicked into them, on piste they feel nothing like 100 underfoot, I tried the 93 width the other day and they don’t feel any different to me compared to those. The Shift binding feels no different to any Alpine binding I’ve used either. Delighted so far!
The brakes locking together I immediately noticed to be a pain in the ass but I shall wait and see how it goes before deciding whether to slither a bit off the plastic!
In one respect it’s great as they don’t slide apart a little bit on your shoulder.
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Oh forgot to say I will try the uphill tomorrow as I need to trim my skins first so I will get them done later on.
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IanTr wrote:
I’m about to order a set of these to use with a pair of Mythique 87CA’s. I can have the Salomon version in 100mm or the Atomics in 90mm. Which would be better? I’ve read with interest about the brakes tangling, so wonder whether the extra 10mm on the Salomons would partially mitigate this. The Salomons are blue so match the skis also, but that’s not a factor obv...

Thoughts welcomed.

Do NOT get the 100mm as they'd be far too wide for that ski and it'd be very easy to knock the brakes together and deploy them when skinning. The 90mm brake is actually 98mm between the levers. I've got the Salomon blue/black version in 90mm in stock wink
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@VolklAttivaS5, the brake locking "feature" irritated the hell out of me for the first few days. I was going to perform surgery, didn't get round to it and now after another week's use I'm not sure I will. May be because I've swapped to slightly narrower skis (93 vs 97) but probably just everything bedding in.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@mgrolf, yeah as soon as I got them out of the box and went to look at the bases I already had my hair off with the brakes.
There’s a definite knack to them though and I quite like the chunky knobbles on them.
I’ve made the binding adjustments and while I was there boot in hand I got my head around the ski to walk mechanism to make sure the pins clicked in smoothly before I have a go at skinning tomorrow!
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So far so good today
Skied bumps on the piste, powder, crunchy snow off piste, well groomed pistes and icy pistes today and I loved the Shifts.
Couldn’t tell an iota of difference compared to my Marker Tour F10s
Ski to walk mode seems simple enough.
Will report back once I’ve skinned on them, may not be tomorrow now but will be soon.
Oh and the Scott Slight 100, I’m delighted with them.
They ski short in my opinion in case anyone is thinking of getting a pair. My Scott Laylas are 168 as well with a semi twin tip and the Slights felt shorter than those.
No complaints though, I love them.
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Thank you @spyderjon
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Had a day guided off piste today to give the Shifts a proper test and they were great. Couldn’t tell any difference downhill compared to my Marker Tour F10s.
Tried out the uphill mode on the bindings briefly today after we had finished as no one else today had skins. Only had time to try them for 5 mins up a steep red piste. The highest (only) climb setting seemed alright going straight up the side of that. I’m not sure if I’d be going up anything steeper than that in reality so I think they should do the job.
No issues with the toe coming out when walking but of course you do have to make sure you pull the toe lever right up to lock it.
Releasing the brakes back down when I’d finished was tricky with gloves on so all I did was press both brakes downwards with the base facing away from me and that worked fine.
I’m not sure if that would damage the mechanism over time doing that? It was easier than getting hold of the click walk to ski lever though. Maybe the lever won’t be as stiff with a bit of use.
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VolklAttivaS5 wrote:
.....Releasing the brakes back down when I’d finished was tricky with gloves on so all I did was press both brakes downwards with the base facing away from me and that worked fine.
I’m not sure if that would damage the mechanism over time doing that?.....

Nope, that's the best way to do it.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
@spyderjon, ok great it’s definitely the easiest and quickest!
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Back now to report after trying a proper skin for 40 mins earlier on. No issues. The high riser seemed enough. I’m not sure I’d need another one a notch higher.
I was thinking I’m not sure why Salomon didn’t put 2 risers on? It would have worked I think? You could have had one inside the other like a nest of tables?
Anyhow I used the flat setting (which is actually 2 degrees) quite a bit and it was surprisingly comfortable compared to my Marker Tours where instead of flat I’d feel the need to put it up to 7 degrees but then that would be too high.
So maybe 2 degrees for ‘flat’ and 10 degrees works just fine.
Oh-also I’ve got different skins on the new set up. They are Kohla Peak Mohair Mix, they seem pretty good.
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very concise and relevant review of the shift that about says it all

https://www.telemark-pyrenees.com/test-report-salomon-shift-mnc-bindings?currency=GBP
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