 Poster: A snowHead
|
|
I skied in cotton t-shirts for 20+ years and had no complaints, then I purchased a Icebreaker shirt from TK Maxx for £30. I've since got another at a similar price from Amazon. I wouldn't go back to my old habits, but neither would I pay £90 for one.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
@musher, Genuine question. If you purchased ‘an icebreaker’, what do you wear for the other five days of a week’s skiing holiday. I get the feeling that people just purchase one or possibly two base layers.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
They are good for 2 or 3 days (and I sweat a lot). They really are anti-whatever and don't smell, and as they are wool welcome a low temperature hand wash.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
I used to take 5 or 6 cotton t-shirts. Now I take 2 merino tops and some other shirts that never get worn (just in case).
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
@foxtrotzulu, walking near Bath but we've talked about walking it all the way to Reading at some stage.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
@billb,
There are plenty of great pubs on the canal 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@musher, indeed. Walked over the Dundas and Avon Cliff Aqueducts today which carry the canal over the river Avon. Impressive structures. It's local to me so have been along there a time or two. Polyester base layer held up ( just to keep on topic  )
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| billb wrote: |
| @foxtrotzulu, walking near Bath but we've talked about walking it all the way to Reading at some stage. |
Remwmber to stop just before you get to Reading!
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
| Quote: |
Genuine question. If you purchased ‘an icebreaker’, what do you wear for the other five days of a week’s skiing holiday. I get the feeling that people just purchase one or possibly two base layers.
|
Merino is really handy this way - you wear the same stuff all week(s). I take one of the following- light merino tee shirt, merino long sleeved base layer (thin), med weight merino zip neck polo, heavy weight (dale in this case) merino ski jumper. Thats all , wear combos of that lot all week. For me ( and most people) this stuff just doesn't smell. You can wear the same t-shirt and/or trad look ski jumper down the pub all night, dance on tables until you fall off, wake up, put the same stuff on and go skiing. The worst it gets is it smells a bit wet labrador if I am really getting sweaty. When sailing one year I met the son of the guy who skippers the boat the BBC natural history unit uses for Antarctic sailing and filming. We were both in a bar in the highlands and both wearing merino kit, we got chatting about it, one of his friends wore merino kit on a greenland expedition for 9 continuous weeks, with no issue( my record is 2 weeks continuous wear of the same tee shirt).
I am always amazed by the span of human experience. I cannot ski and not sweat, if I walk 10 miles, even on the flat, I will sweat. I am amazed people can wear a cotton t-shirt whilst doing any kind of exercise. Even dry cotton is not a good insulator. With skiing being a stop -start sport, one minute working at skiing, the next sitting on a chair (that may stop for a while), I find you need kit that keeps you warm and dry whether you are working hard or stopped.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
@foxtrotzulu,
We can't afford the Sherpas to carry them all
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
|
|
|
|
|
@foxtrotzulu, Alistair Pink already is. For special occasions only 
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
| foxtrotzulu wrote: |
Ironically, it looks as though the new high-tech fibre for skiing is....... cotton!
|
Only from them, we as a species put so much emphasis on cotton, move on, find better.
Layering is and always has been the way forward, the only place i use cotton is in my ears.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
| Quote: |
Ironically, it looks as though the new high-tech fibre for skiing is....... cotton!
|
The right kind of tightly woven cotton can make a great softshell (allows water VAPOUR to get through better than goretex but is somewhat less waterproof) - this is how Mover use it. But it doesn't make a good wicking layer for moving LIQUID water (sweat!) from the skin.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
I'm another in the 'surprised people are advocating cotton' camp. Having tried a sub £20 base layer as an alternative to a t-shirt for riding the bike to work, the difference was so marked I promptly shelled out on another four.
When skiing with my jacket I don't think I'd be able to modulate my temperature such that I didn't get a cotton t-shirt uncomfortably damp under high exertion such as fetching an irritating child's glove that they left 100 yds up the slope.
Talking of irritating children, a couple of weeks ago I accompanied a few on a charity hike in the Peak District. We went on a little detour to say hi to the horses and managed to end up the wrong side of a gorge. After 20 minutes of trudging up the hill through bracken and ducking trees, under my fleece my T-shirt was wringing wet. This wasn't an issue until we crested the hill and got the full force of the wind. What I did was put on anorak/hat/gloves, kept us moving and shivered a lot until body heat dried the T-shirt back out. What I should have done is simply take the T-shirt off. I certainly wouldn't want to be stuck on a chairlift for any length of time in something non-wicking next to my skin.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
@Penry,
| Quote: |
I'm another in the 'surprised people are advocating cotton' camp.
|
I'm not sure that anyone is actually advocating cotton. It's just that there are one or two of us who ski in cotton (not always) and it's no problem. I'm certainly not pushing cotton as being technically superior, I'm just pushing back a little against the mentality that you absolutely must have merino or some technical fibre. I do have a base layer that is merino or something and that's fine too. On a typical day's skiing, I am very unlikely to sweat. Look at it like a Goretex jacket. Certainly superior to many other materials, but many of us skiied before Goretex was available and many of us don't own a Goretex jacket (sadly).
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
Perhaps we should be a bit more discerning here. There seems to be a difference between what the material actually is (cotton, wool, bamboo, plastic), what shape(s) it comes in at a micro level (I'd imagine plastic could be extruded at capillary scale if possible, with whatever cross-section is deemed optimal), and how it is woven. Presumably all those factors combine. Then, as we've seen on top, is the gently glowing / bucket-sweating wearer.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
There's far more to a base layer than the material it's made from.
The best winter base layers are compression style. That stops cold draughts and ensures that sweat is wicked away from all of your skin and not just the parts that are touching you.
Next you need a really, really good fit to your body. It needs to be long in the body and arms, and should come up reasonably high on the neck with a draught-proof collar. The best base layers also have a short zip that can be undone to allow airflow to the chest when things get warm.
The main things about the fabric are that it should be warm, non-absorbant, anti-bacterial and stretchy. If you're familiar with the term, the cycling fabrics described as 'roubaix' are great: fluffy and absorbant next to the skin but densely woven on the outside to stop airflow. Lots of materials can be made like that, so go by feel rather than the label.
I have a roubaix-style compression ski top from the US brand Hot Chillys that I bought in 2007. I've since worn it almost every day that I've skied and it's been my faithful companion on literally hundreds of winter bike rides, dog walks and hill walks. Only in the past few months has it started to smell, and then only after several days of high-intensity, high-sweat activity. It cost an arm and a leg, but it's probably the best value garment that I've ever owned.
One tip for smelly sports gear, though: get hold of some Halo sports wash and use that instead of regular washing powder. It kills the germs and keeps your Lycra fresh.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
@Jonny Jones, +1
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
| Penry wrote: |
| ... After 20 minutes of trudging up the hill through bracken and ducking trees, under my fleece my T-shirt was wringing wet. This wasn't an issue until we crested the hill and got the full force of the wind. What I did was put on anorak/hat/gloves, kept us moving and shivered a lot until body heat dried the T-shirt back out. What I should have done is simply take the T-shirt off. I certainly wouldn't want to be stuck on a chairlift for any length of time in something non-wicking next to my skin. |
^ THIS!
Tech has improved since leather helmets. It’s a safety issue as much as a comfort issue. And if you’re mildly considerate, unlike quite a few lifties, guides, instructors and mountain workers, a stink issue too! 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
The ‘stink’ issue is an interesting one. I’d suggest that’s it’s only because of the non-stink attributes of some modern fibres that people then decide to wear the same base layer for days in end. At home, even in a non-sweaty environment, would you consider wearing the same shirt for three (or more) days in a row? Probably not.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@foxtrotzulu,
| Quote: |
At home, even in a non-sweaty environment, would you consider wearing the same shirt for three (or more) days in a row? Probably not.
|
No, because it would look horrible, even if it didn't smell. I alternate two or three merino base layers (winter and summer) over a several day period, making sure that the one(s) I'm not wearing are hung up to air properly. They don't smell, and because they're made of fine wool, they don't need ironing and still look pristine even when they've already been worn. And, as my friends - including my snowHead friends - will testify, I'm fairly fastidious aka a bit OCD.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
Most technical fabrics must be washed at 30C or lower, which doesn’t kill bacteria. To compensate, manufacturers apply an antibacterial coating. Unfortunately, this washes off over time and bacteria can slowly build up regardless of the frequency of washing. Lower quality garments are particularly prone to losing their antibacterial protection.
The solution is to disinfect the clothes. Household disinfectant is too harsh, so the easiest solution is to use a dedicated sports wash. Assos, the Swiss cycling clothing firm, makes a superb sports wash but the price is outrageous. Halo - easily available from eBay or Amazon - is a reasonable but slightly less effective alternative.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Halo is cheapest in Sainsburys and always on the shelf.
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
| Jonny Jones wrote: |
There's far more to a base layer than the material it's made from.
The best winter base layers are compression style. That stops cold draughts and ensures that sweat is wicked away from all of your skin and not just the parts that are touching you.
Next you need a really, really good fit to your body. It needs to be long in the body and arms, and should come up reasonably high on the neck with a draught-proof collar. The best base layers also have a short zip that can be undone to allow airflow to the chest when things get warm.
The main things about the fabric are that it should be warm, non-absorbant, anti-bacterial and stretchy. If you're familiar with the term, the cycling fabrics described as 'roubaix' are great: fluffy and absorbant next to the skin but densely woven on the outside to stop airflow. Lots of materials can be made like that, so go by feel rather than the label.
I have a roubaix-style compression ski top from the US brand Hot Chillys that I bought in 2007. I've since worn it almost every day that I've skied and it's been my faithful companion on literally hundreds of winter bike rides, dog walks and hill walks. Only in the past few months has it started to smell, and then only after several days of high-intensity, high-sweat activity. It cost an arm and a leg, but it's probably the best value garment that I've ever owned.
One tip for smelly sports gear, though: get hold of some Halo sports wash and use that instead of regular washing powder. It kills the germs and keeps your Lycra fresh. |
I can't think of anything worse than a close fitting base layer, I would sweat like a pig. Much prefer loose fit that allows a cooling airflow that can be regilated by opening zips.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
|
@tangowaggon, oldschool
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I used bamboo base layers last season in Whistler, when it was very cold. I like them better than my icebreakers and have bought some more for this season. With the delivery was a discount code (at bambooclothing.co.uk) for 10% off, which I am allowed to share: ‘COSY’
So if you do decide to do bamboo you can do it a bit cheaper.
DJ
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
| Esdel wrote: |
| @tangowaggon, oldschool |
Count me in...and maybe half the forum? 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
| Esdel wrote: |
| @tangowaggon, oldschool |
It stops me sweating and keeps me cool and comfortable. Much of this thread seems to be about managing wetness caused by sweating. I prefer to wear gear that can allow me to keep cool without sweating in the first place.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
| tangowaggon wrote: |
| Esdel wrote: |
| @tangowaggon, oldschool |
I prefer to wear gear that can allow me to keep cool without sweating in the first place. |
Completey agree.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
| DJ wrote: |
I used bamboo base layers last season in Whistler, when it was very cold. I like them better than my icebreakers and have bought some more for this season. With the delivery was a discount code (at bambooclothing.co.uk) for 10% off, which I am allowed to share: ‘COSY’
So if you do decide to do bamboo you can do it a bit cheaper.
DJ |
I’m curious. Do you really think you can tell the difference from viscose made from different wood pulps?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
@foxtrotzulu, I’m curious. Do you really think you can tell the difference from viscose made from different wood pulps?
Well there are a few things to consider, Bamboo is a grass (Not wood), but in terms of feel absolutely, it has a very soft silky feel very much like cashmere.
But you will notice the difference once you wear it.
The thing to remember is technology moves forward, new things are created all the time, and unless you try new things how do you know, that you old cotton stuff works better than anything else, Just because you have always worn cotton doesnt mean its better than new products created.
I would imagine not many on this forum still ski on the wooden skinny ski's i learnt on, thats because something better came along, and so we try'd the new skies and guess what, they worked better and made skiing easier.
Isn't it the same principle as new clothing, in the 80's/90's layering wasn't even talked about but today with thinner breathable fabrics (Not just bamboo but i am an advocate), why would you not want to make your life easier, if you love cotton, thats fine (Its your choice), but i've tried everything, and i can tell you from experiance Bamboo works great for me and i can tell the difference in extreme condition, both hot and cold.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
@foxtrotzulu,
I don’t say that. My ‘research’ was entirely subjective, with a sample size of one user and two baselayers; one from BAM and one from Icebreaker. I preferred the BAM product, I could tell the difference, but I don’t know what factor allowed me to do that. Maybe it was to do with the warp and weft, maybe the underlying raw materials, maybe something else - who knows? (Not me). I do get your point, but for me it is irrelevant.
But if anybody had decided to try it out I merely offered a slightly cheaper way of doing so. Then any intrigued snowhead could see what they prefer.
DJ
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
DJ, Bam have a 20% discount on their website at the moment too 
All the bamboo clothing I've bought has been cheap, not paid any more than $10 per t - shirt. Now its becoming fashionable the prices are soaring.
Be aware though that its not as green as it likes to make out - bamboo linen is environmentally friendly, bamboo rayon not so - along with the health problems associated with the people who manufacture it. Again there is a price to be paid to appear 'green'.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
| Esdel wrote: |
@foxtrotzulu, I’m curious. Do you really think you can tell the difference from viscose made from different wood pulps?
Well there are a few things to consider, Bamboo is a grass (Not wood), but in terms of feel absolutely, it has a very soft silky feel very much like cashmere.
But you will notice the difference once you wear it.
The thing to remember is technology moves forward, new things are created all the time, and unless you try new things how do you know, that you old cotton stuff works better than anything else, Just because you have always worn cotton doesnt mean its better than new products created.
I would imagine not many on this forum still ski on the wooden skinny ski's i learnt on, thats because something better came along, and so we try'd the new skies and guess what, they worked better and made skiing easier.
Isn't it the same principle as new clothing, in the 80's/90's layering wasn't even talked about but today with thinner breathable fabrics (Not just bamboo but i am an advocate), why would you not want to make your life easier, if you love cotton, thats fine (Its your choice), but i've tried everything, and i can tell you from experiance Bamboo works great for me and i can tell the difference in extreme condition, both hot and cold. |
The fact that bamboo is a grass is pretty irrelevant. All that matters is that’s it’s cellulose, and here’s my point. It’s just a raw material and I haven’t read anything to suggest that cellulose from bamboo somehow retains differing properties from cellulose from any other wood pulp. I.e. it’s just cellulose. As such, the end product will presumably be just the same as rayon made from any other feedstock.
As I’ve said several times, I’m not promoting cotton as better than rayon. I don’t imagine that it is. I’m not suggesting people should not experiment with new products and new technology. (Not that rayon is new. It’s been around since 1891) I’m just saying that it’s a bit like Goretex. Yes it’s ‘better’, but if you don’t ski in the wet and/or don’t want to spend the money then it’s not necessary.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| DJ wrote: |
@foxtrotzulu,
I don’t say that. My ‘research’ was entirely subjective, with a sample size of one user and two baselayers; one from BAM and one from Icebreaker. I preferred the BAM product, I could tell the difference, but I don’t know what factor allowed me to do that. Maybe it was to do with the warp and weft, maybe the underlying raw materials, maybe something else - who knows? (Not me). I do get your point, but for me it is irrelevant.
But if anybody had decided to try it out I merely offered a slightly cheaper way of doing so. Then any intrigued snowhead could see what they prefer.
DJ |
Apologies, I wasn’t concentrating. I thought you were saying that bamboo rayon was better than other rayon. What you were saying was that you preferred bamboo rayon to Merino wool. Apples and pears.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
any kind of wool gives me the itches, so i am always on the look out for comfortable materials that feel good next to my skin, as for goretex, i just feel its overpriced and overhyped, its probably the market leader because its the one that everybodys heard of, but every well known outdoor brand has its own cheaper and just as good waterproof breathable membrane
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
| Quote: |
The fact that bamboo is a grass is pretty irrelevant. All that matters is that’s it’s cellulose, and here’s my point. It’s just a raw material and I haven’t read anything to suggest that cellulose from bamboo somehow retains differing properties from cellulose from any other wood pulp. I.e. it’s just cellulose. As such, the end product will presumably be just the same as rayon made from any other feedstock.
|
Yes - correct. Rayon is also a very comfortable material - soft and silky. The problem is that is doesn't wash well compared to cotton (or wool). I.e. the fibres begin to break down more quickly. There are a couple of "hi-tech" rayons - modal etc that are designed to overcome this. I THINK the argument for bamboo rayon is less about the material properties than the fact that bamboo is faster growing and therefore environmentally superior to using woodpulp. Depends where you get teh wood from of course.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
grass
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
