 Poster: A snowHead
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Whilst in Soldeu last week I witnessed the most amazing sight. A French speaking teacher (not instructor) taking his class down a black run. Nothing wrong in that I hear you say - except the everyone of them were snowploughing. We had actually skied across the top of the run heading down a blue (rossinyol) to Canillo when we heard the Piste Hors going berserk with the teacher. We stopped and looked in amazement and the sight of ten kids snowploughing if not frozen solid on the black (gaig).
I hope they got down in time to catch their bus home !
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Mon 13-02-06 17:32; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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French teacher or instructor?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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That sounds like some impressive stupidity! Have been to Grandvalira several times and Gaig has always been shut do to poor conditions. But the chair goes straight over it and it looks quite steep and narrow in places with some nice rocks and trees to hit at the side if you fall.
Paul Mason, what did you think of Rossinyol? Some of the locals rate it as one of the nicest runs in Andorra. Having skied it in glorious sunshine in December I have to agree.
As for the bad teaching / idiocy I wouldn't worry too much, there are stupid people everywhere. 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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They were having language lessons too
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Ok I have re-phrased the text ! 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Obsessed_intermediate I agree that there are stupid people everywhere but...........surely this is madness. Competent black skiers were having to assist these kids off the run - they were right at the top ! Its a long way down with plenty of rocks and trees.
Rossinyol was a lovely run down to Canillo - cup of Hot Choc at the bottom and then head across to Pas ! Great day out. We had a full week of sunshine - factor 50 was the order of the day. No panda eyes for me !
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Paul Mason, nothing wrong with snowploughing down a black run, it's just more tiring than other techniques. It's always useful to push yourself to your limits now and then, and as long as the run wasn't icy (ie. a fall would result in a dangerous long slide) I don't see the problem? Kids are often braver than adults, as they're used to taking a few knocks playing on bikes or climbing trees or whatever. I snow-ploughed down many a steep run when I was learning, and still very occasionally resort to it, for example in breakable crust off-piste. If the kids in question were screaming in fear and crying their eyes out, then I take it back, but otherwise, I bet they got down OK in the end and will probably be better skiers than you and me in a few years time!
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| Quote: |
| nothing wrong with snowploughing down a black run |
Unfortunately, there's lots wrong with it. In a plough the skis can only be displaced to an angle of around 45 degrees to the fall-line, which means that beyond a given gradient the braking is ineffective and therefore dangerous. Not to mention hugely tiring.
Parallel turns increase the ability of the skier to brake fully (skis up to 90 degrees to the fall-line).
There's no way a class of beginners should be taken down a typical black run - on the surface of it, this sounds crazy.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Plake, My 1st experience of boarding was being taken down a narrow red by an instructor. It was as icy as anything and steep falls beckoned on the side. The philosophy stated was something to do with the steeper the learning curve, yada yada. A stupid and dangerous exercise as far as I'm concerned. It only transpired later that he liked his booze a little too much. I agree that everyone needs to be pushed out of their safety zone but there are limits.
All I wanted was the basics in edging, turning, falling leaf. Although I think students should be taken on to real slopes as soon as the can hold an edge, this was truly ridiculous and a waste of my money and time. Thankfully I've improved somewhat 
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I'm not a beginner, although sometimes I do wonder...
An instructor in Tignes last year took a group of us off the side of the piste into what he knew was really cruddy snow (we didn't have a clue) - only one of us made it back to the piste without falling over. Some of us (including myself) fell pretty spectacularly (and entertainingly - some of the falls were partially due to members of the group laughing at each other).
The instructor knew exactly what he was doing & wanted to take us out of our comfort zone. However, if I was a nervous skier or a beginner who was unsure whether skiing was for me or not - this kind of teaching could have finished me off. Not sure you should try this with large groups of children either...
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Paul Mason, Staggering, but I can beat that! About 6 weeks ago I saw an adult (don't know relations) taking a bunch of kids who could barely turn (including one about 5 yars old who couldn't) down a closed red run. they made it down, and later I saw the same group heading off down to the Diable black run quite late in the day. the little one still doing fall line plough!
Some people need a good ear bashing, but I couldn't be bothered!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Quote: |
I agree that everyone needs to be pushed out of their safety zone but there are limits.
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Safety zone or comfort zone - There is legitimate reasoning for pushing someone out of their comfort to improve their ability, but pushing them beyond there safety zone I reckon is a big no no.
saxabar, not getting at your comments btw
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Some people forget what it was like to be a learner.
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You know it makes sense.
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Perhaps he took a wrong turn
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I was promoted to the ESF level 2 group on day 3 of my first ever week on snow and got taken off-piste tree skiing in Avoriaz by the instructor. It wasn't steep terrain but the snow was at least ankle deep and we all just followed blindly and hung on for dear life. It was fun if not necessarily safe.
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Poster: A snowHead
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My first weeks skiing had been with the wonderful newgen in courch1650, could just about paraller by end week, but they didn't operate in Les M, so my second week ever on skis was a disaster. I've done about 10 weeks on a board and happy on blacks, offpiste etc.
Classic middle age very french ESF cow in les menuires., It was Feb 1/2 term, big group around 14 all in 'intermediate'. At the end of the first days lessons, freezing cold and about 4:50 she takes us off piste through the trees, down a narrow track no more than 2 feet wide with lots of opportunity for hooking roots. Lots of group falls, and sticking of skis the wrong side of trees. I give it a whirl, get 5 yards wach straight into a tree, so walk back to the piste, ski to the bottom with no issue and then have a huge row avec Madame in my best schoolboy french. Still the chalet were impressed that I'd sacked the instructor (nearly) by end of the firs day
Following day I go back for more punishment, 1st run a very bumpy David Douillet which no-one manages...grr so I give up, get my board then go down the same run finding it a bit tricky on that
ESF - never again for me.
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