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Compulsory helmets on yer bike!

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Snowsports next?
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/e92a8032-d09d-11e7-b1ec-8503a5941b97
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@boredsurfin, you are sh*t stirring.

Here is a bit more information:

Quote:
Speaking at the Cycling + Walking Innovations 2017 conference, an event sponsored by the Department for Transport, Mr Norman said the consultation in the new year would be a “wider and more embracing look at how safety can be improved for cyclists and other road users in relation to cycling”.

“That could be infrastructure, education, signage and other things which could contribute to a successful and effective transition to a world in which walking and cycling are enormous,” he said.

A Sunday Times correspondent [clearly another sh*t stirrer] asked: “Do you wear hi-vis and a cycle helmet when cycling and do you think they should be compulsory?”

Mr Norman replied: “I have made it perfectly clear in previous conversations that I don’t take a position on hi-vis or helmets. That is something in relation to the Cycle Safety Review where we will see what the evidence and the submissions say.

“If you want to have a society where a 12-year-old can get on a bicycle it’s a serious issue as to whether you’re going to mandate hi-vis or helmets and there will be many arguments about whether the safety benefits outweigh or do not outweigh the deterrent effect that might have on people cycling. So we’re going to leave that to the review.”


Extract from the Guardian
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
I like Chris Boardman's view. What cyclists need is numbers, and making people wear a silly uniform to nip to the shops is only going to turn people off cycling.
It was ace when he was on the BBC cycling around wearing black and no helmet to make his point.
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I cycled to and from work for several years until recently.

Believe me, if a tipper truck takes me out, a plastic lid ain't helping the outcome.

Bike lids are rated for a certain force, generally equating to falling sideways off a static bike.......which I have done a few times clipped in 😲.

I should say that I don't wear a helmet in town, don't see the point.

Mountain biking? Yep

So, it's horses for courses and there is no chance in hell that this would be legislated (as it's just victim blaming).

n.b. Boardman is 100% right in all he says on the subject.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Ain't going to happen.
Country with lowest injury rate has lowest level of helmet use - Netherlands
Country with compulsory helmet use has lowest level of cycle use - Oz.

It's bloody stupid focusing on a secondary safety device. Best not to fall off in the first place - that's where the publicity should be.
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I like it when they wear black, no helmet and no lights at night on unlit roads.
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nelly0168 wrote:
So, it's horses for courses and there is no chance in hell that this would be legislated (as it's just victim blaming).

n.b. Boardman is 100% right in all he says on the subject.


Unfortunately, history shows that there is a chance - it's already the case in some places (eg Australia) - expecting common sense to prevail is optimistic. Hopefully Chris Boardman, as a high profile advocate (and, particularly, his not having changed his mind following his mother's death), will help keep this off the legislative agenda.
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Who is going to catch you? I don't want to sound like a Daily Mail reader, but I can't remember the last time I saw a Policeman on the street, and if you are cycling, they would have to be cycling as well to catch up with you.

Since it appears to be acknowledged that there are around a million uninsured drivers on the roads, and random stop and search events have found 20% of drivers don't meet the legal sight requirements for driving, and nothing appears to be being done about either, I can't imagine that catching cyclists without helmets will be high on the list.
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Gordyjh wrote:
I like it when they wear black, no helmet and no lights at night on unlit roads.


Yep, that's what annoys me. 'I wear a helmet so will be OK'. And you ride like a tw@t and wear black.
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Australia are reconsidering. Nobody else has followed suit.
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Given the choice between hi vis or helmet, I would always opt for hi vis, better to not have accident in the first place than rely on protection if you do.
When I'm on the roads on my pedal bike, my cycling top is hi vis and I have my flashy led lights on even in daytime, I consider it my duty as a small, hard to see road user to make myself as visible as possible to other road users. My usual bike circuit is just 30 min, i don't think I could tolerate wearing a helmet longer than that.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
martinm wrote:
Gordyjh wrote:
I like it when they wear black, no helmet and no lights at night on unlit roads.


Yep, that's what annoys me. 'I wear a helmet so will be OK'. And you ride like a tw@t and wear black.


I love this thread already

There are a lot of students in my area who cycle like ninjas of an evening.

However, playing devils advocate - Whats your feelings on pedestrians on unlit roads wearing black?

Given that four times as many pedestrians are killed by car drivers than cyclists, should they also wear dayglo?

Final question, if you ride "like a lady's front bottom" you may endanger yourself, agreed. Whats your thoughts on the (infinitely larger number of) car drivers who drive like ladies' front bottoms, and can potentially kill or maim pedestrians/cyclists?
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
@Layne, suicide cycle ride time? Down Whaddon hill in the snow, no hi vis, no lights after more than a few shandies. Must do that again.
ski holidays
 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Just more nonsense generated on the back of the Charlie Alliston case. I wear a wear a helmet most of the time but when touring in the summer, I don't. I'll risk assess my own cycling and don't want the government squeezing the pleasure out of doing it.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
tangowaggon wrote:
Given the choice between hi vis or helmet, I would always opt for hi vis, better to not have accident in the first place than rely on protection if you do.
When I'm on the roads on my pedal bike, my cycling top is hi vis and I have my flashy led lights on even in daytime, I consider it my duty as a small, hard to see road user to make myself as visible as possible to other road users. My usual bike circuit is just 30 min, i don't think I could tolerate wearing a helmet longer than that.


+1
As a driver of a car that is a touch lower than average, your tiny lights get lost in all the other, more powerful headlights, especially at roundabouts!
Do us all a favour and light yourself (preferably on your helmet Madeye-Smiley )and your cycle up like a Fing Xmas tree pls!!
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
nelly0168 wrote:
...Final question, if you ride "like a lady's front bottom" you may endanger yourself, agreed. Whats your thoughts on the (infinitely larger number of) car drivers who drive like ladies' front bottoms, and can potentially kill or maim pedestrians/cyclists?


First of all, it’s a very tiny minority who drive as you describe above (except in Surrey, where it’s the inverse).

Ban them!
Or, knock their license down to provisional.
Or, only allow them to drive a 1.0l car with a max bhp (like motorcycle licenses) for 1-2 years.
And, teach the Fkrs how to use a Fing motorway (middle lane is not for cruising, schmucks!)
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
ALQ wrote:

As a driver of a car that is a touch lower than average, ...


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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
What kind of an excuse for a thread in The Piste is this???? Laughing
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Oh, and cops need to follow up on dash cam footage!
Especially schmucks cruising on the middle lane of the A3 or M25 who don’t pullover when I’m approaching at speed!
Do I need to click my poles or something?

/end_rant Toofy Grin
ski holidays
 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Yes, it's an appalling piece of journalism designed to rouse rabble.

However, playing devils advocate - Whats your feelings on pedestrians on unlit roads wearing black?
Given that four times as many pedestrians are killed by car drivers than cyclists, should they also wear dayglo?

This, precisely.

I would also suggest that compulsory helmets for car drivers should come first - that would save more lives, and it is, after all, about safety. Isn't it.

As a cyclist, I have lights which are as bright as those of most cars.

I think we should go the other way - cars are allowed in our City, but it's up to them not to hit the locals, not the other way around.
That's how I behave when I drive here. Which really annoys the motorists who think our 20mph limit is optional.
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@Thornyhill,
Caption that...”Get the F outta my way muthaf*** (in best gangsta rapper from Surrey accent) Laughing
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@philwig, Hard to believe but the vast majority of car drivers do try not to hit others...it’s painful on the insurance premium and a real b*tch to get the correct colour for the paintwork.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Maybe everyone who uses the roads should have a test of some description. (Make the car test much harder.)

I've managed to get through 40 odd years as a pedestrian and cyclist and nearly 30 years as a driver and motorcyclist. In that time I've had 4 accidents. One in a car was my fault for driving like an idiot about 6 weeks after I passed my driving test. The other three were accepted by insurance companies to be entirely not my fault.

We are soft and squishy beings. Cars, bikes, trucks and buses are not soft and squishy. If you set out assuming that if you do something daft then you will be even more squishy than when you left the house then you shouldn't encounter too many issues. Expect everyone else to be stupid and plan accordingly. If they aren't stupid then no harm done and if they are stupid you have hopefully avoided them.

I saw a truck recently with a message like this on the back...formatting isn't quite correct but you get the idea

"
Cyclists
passing side--->
<---suicide
"
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Given that around here most cyclists are on the pavement, even when it's not dual use, then protection from cars is not high on their list of priorities. However when I push them over as them pedal at me at speed and assume it's my problem to get out of the way they might reconsider. Wink And I'm a road cyclist.
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Thornyhill wrote:
Maybe everyone who uses the roads should have a test of some description. (Make the car test much harder.)

I've managed to get through 40 odd years as a pedestrian and cyclist and nearly 30 years as a driver and motorcyclist. In that time I've had 4 accidents. One in a car was my fault for driving like an idiot about 6 weeks after I passed my driving test. The other three were accepted by insurance companies to be entirely not my fault.

We are soft and squishy beings. Cars, bikes, trucks and buses are not soft and squishy. If you set out assuming that if you do something daft then you will be even more squishy than when you left the house then you shouldn't encounter too many issues. Expect everyone else to be stupid and plan accordingly. If they aren't stupid then no harm done and if they are stupid you have hopefully avoided them.

I saw a truck recently with a message like this on the back...formatting isn't quite correct but you get the idea

"
Cyclists
passing side--->
<---suicide
"


Do you mean a compulsory cycling proficiency test and a license for cyclists to use the road?
In town, I still see cyclists going down the ‘suicide’ side for HGVs and I wonder what they’re thinking. Every car driver knows to give them plenty of space to manoeuvre.
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Not sure I agree with the idea of making it law, but I can't say that I understand any of the arguments of why not to wear a helmet.

That said, I hardly ever ride on the road these days anyway, far too much risk.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
ALQ wrote:


Do you mean a compulsory cycling proficiency test and a license for cyclists to use the road?
In town, I still see cyclists going down the ‘suicide’ side for HGVs and I wonder what they’re thinking. Every car driver knows to give them plenty of space to manoeuvre.


My kids did cycling proficiency tests in primary school. It was mad complicated. Road positioning, signalling, awareness of other traffic and awareness of the frailties of the human body. We had to give authority for them to be shown what happens when cyclist meets car. The school stuck to images of broken legs and road rash which wasn't too gory but was still effective. Not terribly difficult to add it to National Curriculum. It took a few hours over the course of a year.


Off topic....at the start of last week I witnessed the funniest thing I have ever seen. RLJ was going about his usual business, scared a few pedestrians and then hit a police car while he was going full tilt through the red light. I wanted to point and laugh but I thought the fuzz might find it inappropriate. I hope it hurt Toofy Grin
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
tarrantd wrote:
Given that around here most cyclists are on the pavement, even when it's not dual use, then protection from cars is not high on their list of priorities. However when I push them over as them pedal at me at speed and assume it's my problem to get out of the way they might reconsider. Wink And I'm a road cyclist.


I am surprised that that the Daily Mail allows you to reproduce one of their headlines on this forum..............

Is it maybe the case that these few people using a pavement do so because the road is too dangerous?

You are just like those bams that - upon me catching them at the lights and pointing out that their crap driving almost killed me - come out with that classic line "F**k off mate, I am a cyclist too you know"

I would also suggest that pushing people over on bikes is quite dangerous as well as showing you up as being incredibly cowardly.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Can anyone spot the inconsiderate cyclist on the thread. The kind of person who gives the rest of us a bad name? Laughing
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Thornyhill wrote:
..My kids did cycling proficiency tests in primary school. It was mad complicated. Road positioning, signalling, awareness of other traffic and awareness of the frailties of the human body...


Something like that, along with a 45 minute on-road practical. If you pass, you get a little license plate to put on the back of whichever cycle you choose to use on the road.
I used to cycle in town but had to give up coz of too many gormless SUV drivers and the ashtrays were crap.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Just for a bit of balance, The Daily Mail take on the story Very Happy

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5113697/Cyclists-wear-helmets-high-viz-vests.htm

Quote:
A government consultation will consider whether riders should be required by law to use the safety equipment following an increase in the number of cyclists dying on British roads.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
I am always amazed at the number of cyclists with no, or barely visible lights. What would they say to a car with no lights? The laws on lights should be tightened up (they have to exist, not be visible!) and the police should enforce this.
And do not go up on the inside of HGVs, buses or vans.
And, yes, I do cycle - and I am amazed at people's stupidity and apparent desire to be squished.
And they swear at you if you ask why they like to be camouflaged in grey and black at night!
In London especially, I think part of the problem is that they are not also car drivers. They do not realise that they are wearing invisibility cloaks.

Oh, and peeps, the noun is a "licence" in this country! You would be licensed to hold a licence.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
pam w wrote:
What kind of an excuse for a thread in The Piste is this???? Laughing


I expect the OP was hoping that he would open up a helmets in snowsports can of worms so he could open the popcorn, sit back and enjoy a moron fight of a Friday evening. Did not quite go that way but almost warranted popcorn. Smile
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mcspreader wrote:
almost warranted popcorn. Smile



butter or salted?
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mcspreader wrote:
enjoy a moron fight of a Friday evening...


We aim to please Cool
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So many problems with posts like this

@tarrantd, no cyclist names themselves a road cyclist , also no true cyclist rides on the pavement or cycle paths, those that do are there for safety.

The major issue from this ongoing debate that most miss is this.

Although the helmet is designed to protect its user, it's also there to hold your brain inside your bonce should you be hit, how many parents ride a bike and the kids wear helmets but they dont.

Ask anyone who rides a bike who has been hit / fallen off if the skid lid saved their life and in 100% of cases it has.

Its literally a no brainer, helmets for all including skiers.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Esdel wrote:
So many problems with posts like this

@tarrantd, no cyclist names themselves a road cyclist , also no true cyclist rides on the pavement or cycle paths, those that do are there for safety.

The major issue from this ongoing debate that most miss is this.

Although the helmet is designed to protect its user, it's also there to hold your brain inside your bonce should you be hit, how many parents ride a bike and the kids wear helmets but they dont.

Ask anyone who rides a bike who has been hit / fallen off if the skid lid saved their life and in 100% of cases it has.

Its literally a no brainer, helmets for all including skiers.


Can we safely assume that you have fallen off several times without a helmet? Laughing Laughing
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
pam w wrote:
What kind of an excuse for a thread in The Piste is this???? Laughing


I am wondering that.
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Well...the OP was trying to bring out the snow sports link...but sadly failed. No popcorn last night. Toofy Grin
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Esdel wrote:

Ask anyone who rides a bike who has been hit / fallen off if the skid lid saved their life and in 100% of cases it has.

Its literally a no brainer, helmets for all including skiers.


Hmmmmm, I love how "anyone" is an expert 🤔

I have fallen off my bike numerous times and fallen skiing loads - I don't wear a helmet cycling (bar MTB) or skiing.

I have been cycling for, probably, 45 years, and skiing for 35+ years.

So, if a lid saved their life in 100% of cases how do they explain my experiences??

It's personal choice. If you want to wear one, that's fine......but assuming I am stupid because I choose not to is decidedly uncool.
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