 Poster: A snowHead
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It occurred to me yesterday watching the ladies moguls that perhaps we'd have more advantage as a non-alpine nation in Freestyle. I haven't made much effort (I looked a bit but didn't find anything) to determine whether you could fit a WC rutline into Tamworth snowdome, but surely it's worth consideration?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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David Murdoch, you might have missed this recent thread? Simon Bates, our top moguls freestyler, contributed over on MySnowSports, and was clearly an angry man at not being selected by the British selectors, despite achieving the minimum qualification standard by scoring points in the World Cup in December at Tignes.
It is alleged that freestyle is not at the top of Snowsport GB's agenda for investment in time and money.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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A pity as I was appalled by the standard in the womens freestyle the other day. Not so much through the turns as off the kickers. Does anyone really believe that a (very poor) 360 is a difficult trick? Also was bemused at the way it is judged. There seems to be very little reward for taking the most direct route down the course with marks being given for completing turns designed to brake the skier. Can someone tell me whats going on?
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The curling and women's moguls were the only events I watched at the last Olympics. Not that I am a great fan (apart from curling). It was amusing to watch the ladies, all very elegant and stylish until the Brit girl came - she looked like a chalet girl who had done one too many season's worth of chocolate cake and wallowed down the course with the grace of a floundering whale. Is she back this time, if so when is she on?
And yes, before you ask, the Brit whale is still a better mogul skier than I would ever be, I was merely comparing her with her peers and there was a wide, wide gulf.
To go back to your point, the Curling gold has shown that the only real hope is to find a niche and focussing to that. Except for the occasional Baxter (who then has far too much pressure put on him or her) we are never going to compete against the alpine nations in the major winter sports. I've just learned that when my son goes to our local school he will have compulsory ski lessons - that from the age of 3. My local school probably has more talent to choose from than the whole of the UK. There was another thread slagging off the French skiers asking why a big town like Grenoble didn't have any major players. I didn't reply at the time but I have a list of the local skiers, about 15, all of whom have better and more consistent results than UK skiers have achieved. This is not to criticize UK skiers, there just is not a huge pool of very young children on snow.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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PG, starting from the bottom of your post, as far as I know, it never has been.
davidof, if you want to be competitive at an alpine sport...you kind of have to live in the alps. Apparently. So can we make the best of what the UK has without resorting (sic) to synchronised face-planting?
switchskier, points are apparently awarded 1/2 turns, 1/4 jumps, 1/4 speed. Beyond that I have no idea what goes on. It would appear as though there has been a schism in what began life as a very revolutionary and "free" discipline; where crowd pleasing and having fun was paramount, following occult and arcane rules has robbed it of the common touch. Bit of a shame really.
Still looking forward to the Men's event me though!!!
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Competitive bump skiing was more exciting to watch in the early to mid 1970s. The 'hot dogging' spirit produced wild imaginative technique.
What we're seeing at the moment doesn't work at all.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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The best thing the FIS & IOC could do in my book is can the overly prescriptive aerials competition and bring in slopestyle discipline. It may not be skiing either (aerials clearly has more in common with high diving or gymastics/trampolining) but at least its more representative of what people do on skis. Add in free tricks including grabs to the moguls with say up to 40% weighting (30% turns, 30% speed) then see whether a clean but risk-free run can win gold medal.
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fatbob, "its more representative of what people do on skis" - maybe, but just how would you judge it? I agree that aerials is a bit weird.
David Goldsmith, at one stage (apparently) binding technology couldn't cope with the demands of the sport and competitors screwed their boots to the skis. Must have been interesting putting them on after a few hours drive in sub zero air..brrr
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Well, I'm in awe of the air that both the ladies and the men take in the moguls. Most of these jumps were only done in singles and on one jump when I was starting out as a ski teacher, now they do multiples in the middle of a mogul run - WOW 
I do think that Snowsport GB should think about where the money goes - I can't see the point of continually pumping money into downhill. We dn't have any training facilities for it, whereas we do for slalom (and to a lesser extent GS). The Finns put their money into freestyle as they have little mountains, we should definitely concentrate on the disciplines we can train for with less expense and less lead-time. It does seem to take a top downhiller around 5-8 years to really get on song. I think Conrad was 30ish when he was 2nd in Val Gardena - a very long apprentis-ship.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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easiski, they are completely incredible I agree.
Can you fit a FIS rutline into Tamworth snowdome? Is the roof high enough for a kicker?
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David Murdoch, good thought you've had there. I think MK has been used by some British freestyle team members for practice, ceiling's quite high, but I've never seen it mogulled.
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You know it makes sense.
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easiski, yes, we only have SL and GS facilities in the UK, but all future downhillers need a basis in the technical disciplines in any case. The fact that DHers are tending to mature later is actually an advantage for the UK - it somewhat nullifies the problem that our kids spend less time on skis in their early years.
In the past couple of seasons, our only top 10 Alpine World Cup results have been in downhill (Chemmy and Finlay), and if anything we should be trying to exploit this and "pumping" even more money into downhill. Of the alpine disciplines, it is the one people most want to watch (albeit often due to a ghoulish fascination with danger), and it would be a terribly defeatist move to "give up" on it.
As for moguls, it's a chicken and egg situation: as long as we have no positive British role models there, few talented kids will want to get into it. (One of our more talented young bumpers of recent years, Andy Bennett, switched to halfpipe, presumably because that is where the interest and sponsors are.) Our UK snowdomes are nowhere near steep enough to train bumps, and I'm not sure if there is the sufficient depth of snow either...?
Our best hope of freestyle medals is probably to "convert" another acrobat (diver, gymast, or trampolinist) by teaching them to ski - like we did with Richard Cobbing - for aerials, which produced a silver World Championship medal in 1993.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Martin Bell, interesting comments. I'm personally nothing more than a decent recreational skier, nothing more, nothing less, but looking at what interests the current generation of kids enjoying the snow, it seems to me that the freestyle disciplines (how's that for a contradiction???) are what gets most of them going.
As you say, Andy Bennett, whose name I recognise from the odd ski mag, went the direction of freestyle and the next generation seem to be leaning in that direction as well, be it slopestyle, halfpipe, big air, big mountain or whatever.
As we have seen in snowboarding, these guys appear to be less interested in competition as in the community of snowsports and the desire to push the boundaries: bigger gaps, more roatations, longer harder grabs, tecnically more challenging transitions between rails / tables and other terrain.
I can't help but wonder if, unlike your generation and mine, they're going in a different direction to what national ski federations expect / want. Look at the US snowboaders competing in Torino independent of the USA federation ..... I think we can expect more of this type of approach.
All that said, of course, most of these disciplines won't become olympic sports - I hope that doesn't mean that traditional alpine disciplines become less popular, but I suspect it is inevitable.
The irony is that even if national federations tried to get more involved with freestyle, my guess is the riders wouldn't want to get too involved with the federations anyway! Being part of the 'system' is hardly likely to appeal to people who want freedom of expression rather than rules!
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Martin Bell wrote: |
Our UK snowdomes are nowhere near steep enough to train bumps...
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 yes, I only thought of that later.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Martin Bell wrote: |
| and "pumping" even more money into downhill. Of the alpine disciplines, it is the one people most want to watch (albeit often due to a ghoulish fascination with danger) |
If those of us who love to watch are 'ghouls'; just interested in how would you describe the participants ? 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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eEvans, you are quite right; I noticed that no-one is more fascinated by watching videos of massive crashes than the downhillers themselves. Preferably taped (with the knowledge that none of the crashers were seriously injured or killed), and preferably not just before racing themselves. Perhaps "ghoul" is an unkind description; perhaps a more innocent sense of wonder at how some skiers survive some of these stacks. And a great recovery (like Aamodt's on Sunday) is equally fun to watch...
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Martin Bell, Yes .. it is very exciting; it is man (or woman) vs nature ; it is man vs man ; it is man vs his inner self ; it is man vs technology; it is man on the day ; it's man vs Fear; it's man in-tune with nature etc. .... so why would anyone ever watch or participate in Motor Racing - let alone F1?
Than again, around here, we are like-minded, so pointless words from me...
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| Martin Bell wrote: |
| Our best hope of freestyle medals is probably to "convert" another acrobat (diver, gymast, or trampolinist) by teaching them to ski - like we did with Richard Cobbing - for aerials, which produced a silver World Championship medal in 1993. |
worked for the aussies....
started with Kirsty mashall & then took trampolinists & gymnasts & turned them into aerialists.....
Jacqui Cooper, Alisa Camplin et al...
Our gymnastics mob love the idea because it gives the female gymnasts a "working life" of greater than 15 years of age
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