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Bindings, liabilities (and waivers)

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
I think what's missing here is a sense of proportion. If there are multiple people involved in a ski accident, and/or if a person's injuries are sufficiently serious that it could cost the insurer £millions, then I agree with dp that the insurer(s) may take steps to investigate possible causes, apportion blame etc.

But I suspect most ski accident claims involve only one person, and that the vast majority of these are either skier error or simple accident, i.e. are nothing to do with binding settings.

Post-claim investigations cost money. For large claims they are worth it. But if the size of the payout is under say £30000 then unless the claimant specifically highlights bindings as a possible issue most insurance companies are not going to bother investigating.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Just to throw in a curve ball, The moment an EU company records the weight and height of a skier then they open a whole new trove of data protection legislation, must be registered under the data protection act and from next year have documented procedures in place to remove said data when requested under GDPS regs. Then in UK they will be subject to extra medical data protection law and in the US they will come under HIPPA, which is even stricter. Do ski fitting operators have HIPPA compliance certificates in the US? they need to if recording any medical information with fines in the millions of dollars per patient for non compliance
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@madmole, hahah good points, although I thought it was GDPR?
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 You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
I son’t Think that we have ever taken a skiing holiday where at least one person in the family hasn’t had to return to the higher shop to get their bindings tightened to prevent repeated inappropriate release, usually in bumps or powder. I’m horrified by the thought that ski shops would be reluctant to protect us from the obvious dangers presented by sloppy bindings in case we subsequently sue them.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
With respect this is becoming silly, there are so many variables here, how often have you ever been asked to step on the scales in the ski shop so they can check your weight and consider your settings accordingly. How reliable is your answer to the question "what sort of skier are you"? How much input do you have to the type of skis you hire? These are the type of questions a hire shop ask routinely and accept the answers given to them. How easy is it for a somewhat cocky confident individual to tell the ski shop that he is an advanced/expert skier who skis on all types of terrain with ease and who wants to the most up to date skis for an aggressive skier of his alleged skill set? What is the responsibility of a hire shop or even a seller of skis and bindings in the UK to ensure that those skis and bindings are set up appropriately? How many suppliers/hirers keep reams of papers with questions and answers to these questions? How possible is it for hire shops in popular resorts to fully explore the most appropriate skis and bindings for their customers without putting them into an interrogation chamber and requiring full and accurate disclosure of their skiing history. How can an insurer know and rely on the fact that a claimant has not (a) purchased skis and bindings set as requested and then changed their boots; (b) fullly and accurately described their skills and abilities (c) not altered the settings after leaving the shop; (d) taken inappropriate skis for the conditions possibly contrary to a recommendation by the shop ...... etc. etc. Lastly, in most cases the skis are likely to have been returned to the ski shop or to have disappeared or been reallocated to another skier so any evidence which might and I say only might have been relevant will be lost. Get real folks, skiing has inherent risks and we take them by choice, accidents occur and when they do it will often be very difficult to allocate blame. In this day and age there seems to be very little concept of unattributable accident only incidents where blame must be found. This is what leads to constant increases in insurance premiums As a group we are responsible for these increases. There are lots of crooks out there raising claims at the drop of a hat, insurers are, contrary to what many people may think, not opposed to paying claims and providing appropriate and consistent support and most honest claimants will have no problems but if there is any doubt about a claim then there may be delays in settlement and claims may be challenged. The cost of insurance is to some extent in our own hands. I am no longer involved in the travel insurance industry but believe me I have seen some obviously outrageous claims raised and many questionable ones paid out after further enquiry even where those enquiries have not been entirely conclusive. I am now paying hundreds of pounds each year for my own insurance without ever historically having made a claim but due to my age and a very dormant medical condition which doesnt change despite my increasing age I am rated incrementally at renewal but I pay for peace of mind should anything go wrong and long will it continue.
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 You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
FFIRMIN wrote:
Get real folks, skiing has inherent risks and we take them by choice, accidents occur and when they do it will often be very difficult to allocate blame. In this day and age there seems to be very little concept of unattributable accident only incidents where blame must be found.


This is definitely true but at the same time, where an accident is caused by somebody's negligence, it's only fair that the bill hits their insurer, not the insurer of the faultless skier who had the accident.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@FFIRMIN, +1
I think there is also cultural element.
Around 7 winters ago my partner broke their leg pretty badly whilst we were riding in some 80cm deep powder in a gully.
They were stretchered away, then spent 5 days in a specialist clinic in Thonon, and had an operation to insert a titanium rod inside the tibia, subsequent to which, they were in a wheel chair for a few days, then crutches, then rehab etc..
A few days earlier, we had had a freestyle lesson, and the instructor had suggested opening our stances a few degrees.
When we spoke to their father the first thing he asked was about the bindings, and how that could have caused the accident, and their brother asked exactly the same thing.
We were actually with an off-duty ESF instructor who is a good friend when it happened, and he like us agrees, that it was just a freak accident.
Nothing to do with bindings or anything else. Winter sports can be dangerous if you are constantly pushing yourself and trying new things.
Everyone who witnessed the accident saw it for what it was - an accident, but those who were in the UK were looking for someone or something to blame.

That being said, I have witnessed lots of crashes where there definitely was somebody to blame, so appreciate that despite trying to mitigate risks yourself, you can still very much be a victim of another persons incompetence, and should have the right to legal and financial recourse in the event of demonstrable losses.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
dp - as I said insurers very broadly operate a knock for knock attitude about many risks, some you win some you lose. From the skiers perspective it makes no odds. The real losers are all of us who ski and whose premiums rise as a result of accidents which may have been avoided but the real cost of big increases comes out of the huge amount of fraudulent claims on travel insurance, while insurers may be getting better at identifying fraud and prosecuting it there remains a large number of claims which are very dubious to say the least.
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 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
@spyderjon, I cannot figure out how to write to you directly. Would you please send me a private message, i'd like to ask you a questioin not directly related to this thread but about my own traumatic ski injury this past season. Thank you~
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 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
@Sunkissedbreeze, you can email me at jon @ thepisteoffice.com
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 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Thank you, Jon. Email sent!
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