Young kids, lessons before ski trip or wait?

A snowHead

Hi All

We've booked a family ski trip next Easter with our 2 daughters aged 8 and 6. They've both done a single 1 hour lesson at Hemel Snowdome before we booked the holiday just to ensure they didn't hate the concept of skiing, but now the holiday is booked I'm wondering whether getting them a few more lessons at the snow dome or a local dry slope before we go would be money well spent or whether we should just to wait until we get there so they can do a full week of beginner ski school as true beginners and have all day to practice.

Although getting them up and running with some basic skills before we go might mean we can enjoy the holiday more and reduce the chance of initial learning frustrations leading to tears etc, I'm a bit concerned that unless we can get them to a level where they're comfortable turning on greens and can do button lifts so they can go straight into a level 2 class when we arrive, any skills learned at home could make the first day or two of beginner ski school a bit laborious for them if other kids in the group are true beginners barely able to stand up.

If anyone else has had similar experiences with kids either learning beforehand or waiting until the holiday I'd love to hear your thoughts?

thanks Smile

A snowHead

Welcome to SHs @Locoblade. At 6 and 8 your kids should have a clear idea of what they'd like. If they loved the Hemel session at Hemel, go ahead and book some more. Otherwise, I'd wait till your holiday. It's supposed to be fun. At this stage all that matters is that they have fun.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Welcome @Locoblade,

We did lessons for our kids on a dry slope before our first holiday and it made a big difference for them they both were immediately put in "improver" groups and by day 3 my eldest was fine on blues and starting reds. Without the 5 dry slope lessons they wouldn't have been anywhere near as far along. If I was doing it again, I'd totally do the lessons at hemel as getting used to snow makes a big difference. I found moving to snow from the dry slope quite hard so I would go for the snowdome if you have the option although its getting busier now so don't wait too long.

Happy skiing

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Bear in mind that you will find The Snow Centre a little quieter now and over the next couple of months than you will between Christmas and Easter. There are 6-packs of lessons available that make it cheaper too. I think it would be very easy to get them to the level you describe with a few lessons before you go, and I think they will enjoy the holiday more if they are skiing around on proper pistes rather than stuck on the nursery slope. I think they could reach that level at either the snow dome, or a local dry slope.

I have a minor self-interest in that I'm one of the instructors at Hemel, but what I'm advising is what I did with my own children, and was very glad I had.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

I'm going to contradict the received wisdom here... per mile of skiing/hour of tuition, I think Hemel delivers a poor return on investment - I don't deny there are benefits, but I think there are much better ways to spend the money.

I think much more rapid progress would come from private tuition in resort. I did this with both my kids. €45/hour for private (with the equivalent of a BASI 4 instructor) for up to 2 kids in France vs £60 for 1 hour of group lessons at Hemel. Furthermore, in resort, private instruction means you're not constrained by the level of a particular group and can progress at the best rate; half a dozen friends' kids have been through the same route and all were on button lifts within an hour and blue runs by day 3. I reckon that progress is 3-5x faster with a private instructor in resort. The additional advantage is that, having learnt and skied so much in the morning, the afternoons are free for sledging, snowballing, swimming, skiing with family etc.

Worth doing the maths - what is the cost of group lessons at Hemel + group lessons in resort vs 2hrs private each day in resort?

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Tough one I'd say. Personally I wouldn't sweat taking them to the dome. Doing the holiday lessons I would expect after a couple of mornings the group to be on a par and flying. Kids learn fast. On the flipside if you have the time and the dosh it wouldn't do any harm going to a dome.

Clearly snowdomes are relatively expensive snowtime on a like for like basis if you ignore the fact it's a long way to the Alps. Then again if you save up all your dome money maybe you can take more ski holidays!

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

A compromise might be lessons in resort in a small group - our local ski school started very small groups last year - more expensive but great value, and usefully cheaper than privates.

After all it is free

we gave our daughter three lessons at Hemel before her first proper skiing holiday (she was 4) - it made her much more confident on the first morning and she never looked back. It was worth it in her case. Probably a bit less important with older kids but still worthwhile IMO

I feel that it made a big difference for our children to have had a couple of trips to dry-ski slopes locally ahead of their first ski trip. Although it was probably a 'nice to have' for two of ours, for the third one it made them far more confident and they picked up far quicker than they would have otherwise. Altogether , advance lessons made the first week of learning more rewarding, which was good for them. However, I wouldn't go overboard (one session would be enough, two useful, but any more a diminishing return). And don't worry too much if logistics prevent it completely, it's not a disaster.

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1 / 2 hour session at a dry ski slope will get through a lot of the basics and for me is a better environment to learn the basics than a snow dome.
Being used to wearing and walking in ski boots , straight sliding and the introduction to a snow plough.

The mountain environment is a lot to take in so being used to the equipment before hand is valuable.

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Trouble is, dry slopes can be horrid. And if kids get it in their heads that skiing is not fun it would be hard to change their minds.

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i'm with snowdave here.
Spend your money on Private Lessons. Pays back massive dividends.
They will advance far quicker and probably have way more fun.
Private Lessons in the morning, ski with mum and dad in the afternoon. The perfect skiing holiday.

I'm not sure there's a right or wrong answer, as Pam says, you know your kids best....as far as my kid goes, he was 6 when he had a few goes at the Chill Factor, in Manchester. He liked going and did quite a few lessons there, always booked with discounts etc or it's pretty pricey. This meant when he got to resort he was immediately off round the mountain and he seemed to love that.

My boy also enjoyed being in a group with kids his own age, I'm not sure how much he would have enjoyed private lessons but again that's totally personal taste. I certainly learnt better as an adult in private lessons.

I'm not a fan of dry slopes and I wouldn't want to learn on them but hey it worked for Dave Ryding.

I think either way will probably work but I don't regret the path i stumbled on.

You know it makes sense.

@Locoblade, I think if you can afford the cost and time, and everyone enjoys it as a fun activity, then up to 3 hours at a snowdome would be good I think.
I'd avoid dry slopes for beginners. Not much like snow and too hard and risky to fall on IMO.
Agree progress will be faster once out on the mountain but familiarity and confidence gained from a few snowdome sessions can help.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

I'd also recommend asking your kids what they would prefer. I've discussed private lessons vs groups with mine and they always choose groups as for them most of the fun is being with a bunch of other kids. Even when they find there is someone in the group who is (in their words) "so annoying" I think they still prefer being in the group. But for some children private lessons are definitely the right approach.

A snowHead

@snowdave, can you give any hints on where you're booking your private lessons at that price? I'd definitely be interested.

New generation (just to pick a random example) charge 85 euro per hour for 2 people for private lessons in low season. So for two hours a day, five days, that would be 850 euro.
Their group lessons for kids for five days are 250 euro, but you'd need to pay for two kids, so 500 euro.
A six pack of lessons at Hemel are £169, let's call that 200 euro, again doubled for two kids is 400 euro.

So yes, if you've got two of them of similar age and ability it works out about the same cost to have private lessons in the resort vs groups lessons before plus group lessons in resort. It might be slightly different depending on the ski school and whether it is peak or low season. But if you can get private lessons at 45 euro per hour for two kids then I think that is a great deal - at that price why would anyone book group lessons?

A snowHead

ESF argentiere is c. E45/hr outside Feb/ new year.

Or, if you want a family resort, les menuires is E2k for a whole week 7 hrs/day, up to ? 4 clients ? I think.

Despite the bashing it sometimes get, I find ESF excellent and the instructors top rate.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Thanks @snowdave. In La Tania the ESF are quoting 1000 euro for the equivalent private sessions I costed for New Generation above, so actually more expensive, which is a shame.

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@kieranm, interesting that the aversion to the ESF is such that people will pay almost 2x for what could be exactly the same product (assuming, as ever, that you know the instructor or are going on a trustworthy recommendation).

The issue of having friends for the kids to ski with is much easier than we expected. Our children have a few friends from the race scene and apartment owning community such that we often have a bunch of kids of similar level sharing. The beauty with private is that you're in charge, if we rock up one morning with 3 other random kids in tow, or want to all join the instructor to get lift line priority for the ascent and some good off piste lines, then it's all fine. There is a small surcharge for extra people so from the instructor's perspective it's more money, and the level the kids ski at means having 5 is no more effort than 2.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Thanks all for the welcomes plus some great information and things to think about. Smile

I hadn't really considered resort private lessons to be honest but having had a quick look I'm not sure they're great value compared to group lessons where we're going (Trysil in Norway). 16 hours of group ski school mornings (5 x 3.25) is around €550 for both kids, whereas private lessons are almost €100/hr for 2 kids so 5 full mornings would be nearly 3 times as much as ski school.

I'm assuming private lessons could be compressed into less time but I think our girls might prefer the group element of ski school and although I may be wrong, in my head I'm imagining ski school being less intense than private lessons with more fun activities interspersed into the learning that I think would suit them better.

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We found the ski school good in Trysil.

Our 6 year old had had a few private lessons when a bit younger so could trundle down a gentle slope, turn and stop. By the time she was a couple of days into the group lessons there she could take proper button lifts by herself. (On the side we were they had two different speed buttons in the beginner area for practice). By the end of fourth day she was happy on the blue slopes there.

If you get a bit of practice before you go then great. But I wouldnt worry about it if you didnt or bust a gut to get to an indoor slope. Just go and ski in the outdoors where you should. If they are then really keen then indoor it afterwards for a bit if practice for the next trip and the real thing.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

PS Good choice of resort for beginners!

After all it is free

I'd read good things about the ski school so nice to hear confirmation that you'd recommend it. Also nice to confirm Trysil is good for beginners, it's a bit of a new one on me having been an Alps dweller on previous snow holidays before the kids were born. Initially I looked at the usual suspects in the Alps but for school holiday friendly dates in the type of accommodation we wanted the prices were ridiculous so started looking off piste a bit and found Trysil (staying at the Radisson Blu Resort hotel on the Turistsenter side). Its obviously not as big as the major Alpine resorts but seems to have a lot of nice wide greens and blues that will be ideal to learn on and the slopes are apparently quieter than the Alps so again good for learning, plus snow conditions at Easter seem a little more reliable (famous last words!).

cheers

My TR from Easter this year might help

http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=131725&highlight=

A few things
The first lessons of the day started when the lifts opened so be careful if booking these that you aren't relying on the lifts to get there. I think less of a problem on the side you are on with the Raddisson on the Turistsenter side, looks close but still maybe a lift away.

Will you have a car?

Are you self catering or is board included. If s/c and fancy eating out and night off from cooking start saving now! Its not cheap to eat out or drink in Norway. Buy lots of duty free on the way in.

But otherwise that's exactly why we went to Trysil - good ski school and less risky at Easter for poor snow. Pretty much the whole area can be got around on green/blue so as hopefully they will reach that level they can get around the whole area and feel they have really accomplished something. (Although maybe avoid T10 and F3, they are pretty steep drags)

And with beginners you won't be doing lots of mileage so small is not a negative, at a bigger resort you'd be paying for all those runs you wouldn't get a chance to get to in the time they are at ski school or while you are with them.

Anything I can help with let me know.

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Yep I found your review a few weeks back thanks, it was a great help.

I think ski school pretty much starts outside the hotel with only a magic carpet ride required to take you up the hill a little. We won't have a car (although still half tempted to ditch the bus transfer and put it towards car hire instead) and we're half board in the Radisson so don't plan to eat out, there appears to be a few different restaurants within the hotel complex to choose from so hopefully won't get bored!

Thanks for the offer of help, if I think of anything else I'll be in touch!

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@Locoblade, paving a 5yo who started skiing at 3, and having taught kids myself I'd say the following:

1) if you have a dry slope near you head to it! Some say they are ghastly but for learning the basics there really is no difference between dry and snow. Ok after they are moving towards more parallel skiing get them on snow, but for their first few, bang for buck dry slopes win.

2) don't both with privates initially. First few lessons will all be about standing up and the basics. No one needs a trained eye on them at all times at this point, especially kids. Once they start to develop, that's when privates may help

3) group lessons for kids is where all the fun is at. Kids wont concentrate for more than an hour on privates - that's why they are that length.

4) group lessons on dry slopes tend to be circa 6 kids, in snowdomes 10 kids - the maths is obvious.

5) kids feel the cold in domes on lessons when they are stood still - take the cold away by having lessons on dry to start with.

6) definately get them lessons before you go away - it will give them more confidence for when you get there, they will be happier Toofy Grin

snow reports

Good advice Paul, exactly along the lines of what I was thinking. Many thanks

Dry slope lessons are best. Much quieter.
Took my kids for a beginner course? First week on snow they were skiing everywhere

You know it makes sense.

Lessons before getting there will make it a lot more fun for them when they get there imho.

Privates work for my daughter when you get the right instructor. She loves 2 instructors in the 3 valleys but hasn't liked a few of the others on privates.

She specifically said this year she wants to be in a group lesson.

We usually do both for her although the private is usually boarding and group is skiing.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

Alternatively if you have a skating rink near you, that's a cheaper alternative to learn many of the same skills.

My daughter started skating at 2, put her on skis at 2yr 10m and she took to them like a duck to water. As far as she was concerned they were just long ice skates, so she skated around happily on them, used the button lift etc.

A snowHead

@snowdave, with you here Dave. My little one started skiing at 3, tried skating over Crimbo (when he was 4) and started playing ice hockey 4 weeks later! Same here with me. Very transferable skills and one certainly improves the other.

Well except for crossovers - outside edge, inside foot on skates - that took my legs a while to master Happy

A snowHead

I would also suggest private vs group depends on the child to a lot of extent. My eldest when she was younger loved group lessons, however she is very sociable and makes friends with any one.

My youngest is on the autistic spectrum and suffers from dyspraxia for her group lessons did not work. She didn't engage / try / or get it. Switching to a few private lessons on the dry ski slope gave her the boast she needed to be able to join into group lessons while on holiday

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Aldershot dry slope is only about 20 minutes away so more convenient than Hemel or MK snowdomes, I'll have a look there to see what they offer.

The girls have only ice skated a couple of times as there's nothing particularly local but they do both rollerskate fairly regularly which I guess develops similar skills.

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@Locoblade, If Aldershot is close, and you are considering dry slope lessons, have a look at Guildford as well. (Might be a teeny bit biased, I do work there...!)

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Thanks Karin, just had a look but Guildford seemingly has no courses / lessons for kids in our age groups (6 and 8 ) other than private lessons, is that right?

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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

After all it is free

Dryslope. Skiing is a privilege - make them earn it. More seriously it is great for foundation skills.

*Ski* the Net with snowHeads

Hi.
I took my then 8 year old daughter on our first ever ski holiday last March.
She had never had any previous lessons or even seen proper snow.

5 days in kids ski school and the whole class did half a black and nearly all the reds in Arinsal by the end of the week.
Parrellel skiing and her and her new BFF followed her dad into the snow park and went over some jumps.

Nice seeing a class of kids skiing in a perfect snake formation all the way down the run and not 1 pole in sight, poles are for old people so I was told lol
Yes we are booking for this season

Help!!

Young kids, lessons before ski trip or wait?

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