 Poster: A snowHead
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Has anyone taken the kids out of school for skiing? What was the view of the school?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Firing squad.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Fined £60 per child per parent, so £240. School not that bothered to be honest but need to follow local authority guidelines. Local authority happy as its raking the money in , more to waste on pointless surveys like are bats cold in winter etc etc
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| Elsie80 wrote: |
| Has anyone taken the kids out of school for skiing? What was the view of the school? |
Fill your ski boots.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I think the question I would be interested to ask - as a non-parent myself - is:
Why, in your opinion, is a week on holiday, outside of normal holiday time, more beneficial to your children than a week of education?
I'm just interested, not judging.
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| dp wrote: |
I think the question I would be interested to ask - as a non-parent myself - is:
Why, in your opinion, is a week on holiday, outside of normal holiday time, more beneficial to your children than a week of education?
I'm just interested, not judging. |
It isn't. But I suppose that some families just can't afford to go on holiday in a peak week. I assume that applies less so for British ski holidays though. As a parent, we just stomach the extra cost for these years. But easy for me to say with only one child and the opportunity to ski in our home country.
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@Elsie80,
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Has anyone taken the kids out of school for skiing? What was the view of the school?
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Yes, several times at primary school. Arranged in advance, no problem or fines from school. Once at senior school. Arranged in advance - school not keen but permission granted, as one parent could not take time off during school holidays.
Background was child doing very well with school education and fortunate not to lose any time through illness. Wouldn't have done it if child struggling or regular sickness.
I could make a bit of a case for wider benefits of learning from an occasional ski trip in term time, especially up to age 13 or so. With a bit of effort, geography, languages and PE should all benefit positively.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| dp wrote: |
I think the question I would be interested to ask - as a non-parent myself - is:
Why, in your opinion, is a week on holiday, outside of normal holiday time, more beneficial to your children than a week of education?
I'm just interested, not judging. |
Because it CAN be the difference between experiencing skiing and not going skiing at all. The year we took my eldest out of school for a week (she was in Yr R, was still 4 and we did have the schools permission as it was before the rules changed) that most definitely was the case.
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@NickyJ, that's valid. But then is it then, in your opinion, just as important that your child learns to ski as it is for them to develop academically? Personally I never skied as a child so I don't know.
Personally I think the issue with taking kids out of school is not the impact it has on their learning. It sets a precedent that taking kids out of school is OK. Which means everyone does it (to get a better price, quieter resort, etc etc). This, in the bigger picture of a year group of 100, must create a very dis-jointed group where different people are missing at different times and it becomes difficult to track learning and progress properly.
I don't want to over-simplify it but I would have presumed that when you have kids, one of the compromises you have to make is the fact that your holiday timings will have to fit into their term dates. I am very liberal in my views generally and I think it's absolutely not up to the school or local authority to tell you how to raise your kids. But at the same time I wonder whether school represents maybe 10% of somebody's lifetime... maybe you just have to make the sacrifices whilst the pies are still hot. Once they're out in the real world there's all the time you like for skiing, school is something you only get to do once so you can't blame the schools for thinking you ought to make the most of it whilst you can.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@dp, that's what teachers, schools & local authorities say also
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| dp wrote: |
I think the question I would be interested to ask - as a non-parent myself - is:
Why, in your opinion, is a week on holiday, outside of normal holiday time, more beneficial to your children than a week of education?
I'm just interested, not judging. |
For oh so many possible reasons! 
You can make the argument that skiing as a sport counts as education, and how many schools do actually take kids out of 'normal' school curriculum to pursue sports?
You can argue that time spent in a different country, with different foods, language and culture, is an education in its own right
You can argue that family time is as important as academic education, and family time together is not always possible at peak school holiday times .......
There are many arguments, many opinions, many variations in what is possible for any one family at any one moment in time, and perhaps most importantly many variations in how time out of 'normal school hours' impacts upon any particular child.
What annoys me about the current legal position is that the ability to apply common sense to a situation, by parents and school working in co operation seems to have been removed!
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| Elsie80 wrote: |
| Has anyone taken the kids out of school for skiing? What was the view of the school? |
I have taken my eldest out of school for 1 day which wasn't approved since they changed the rules. My application was rejected but we went ahead and took her out for that 1 day. As it was below the 5 day threshold we weren't fined and that was her only absence that whole year there was further issues.
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You know it makes sense.
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| dp wrote: |
@NickyJ, that's valid. But then is it then, in your opinion, just as important that your child learns to ski as it is for them to develop academically? Personally I never skied as a child so I don't know.
Personally I think the issue with taking kids out of school is not the impact it has on their learning. It sets a precedent that taking kids out of school is OK. Which means everyone does it (to get a better price, quieter resort, etc etc). This, in the bigger picture of a year group of 100, must create a very dis-jointed group where different people are missing at different times and it becomes difficult to track learning and progress properly.
I don't want to over-simplify it but I would have presumed that when you have kids, one of the compromises you have to make is the fact that your holiday timings will have to fit into their term dates. I am very liberal in my views generally and I think it's absolutely not up to the school or local authority to tell you how to raise your kids. But at the same time I wonder whether school represents maybe 10% of somebody's lifetime... maybe you just have to make the sacrifices whilst the pies are still hot. Once they're out in the real world there's all the time you like for skiing, school is something you only get to do once so you can't blame the schools for thinking you ought to make the most of it whilst you can. |
Err I thought you said "I am not judging..."
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@NickyJ, I'm not, I'm just saying that's one way of looking at it and seeing how others feel
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Poster: A snowHead
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OK so:
| CaravanSkier wrote: |
You can make the argument that skiing as a sport counts as education, and how many schools do actually take kids out of 'normal' school curriculum to pursue sports?
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What is the detriment to this sports education, if taken during school holiday?
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You can argue that time spent in a different country, with different foods, language and culture, is an education in its own right
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What is the detriment to this cultural education, if taken during school holiday?
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You can argue that family time is as important as academic education, and family time together is not always possible at peak school holiday times .......
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Why is this family time less possible during peak school holiday time?
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There are many arguments, many opinions, many variations in what is possible for any one family at any one moment in time, and perhaps most importantly many variations in how time out of 'normal school hours' impacts upon any particular child.
What annoys me about the current legal position is that the ability to apply common sense to a situation, by parents and school working in co operation seems to have been removed! |
I am not saying anyone is right or won't, I firmly believe you have more right to stipulate how your children are raised than the school or LA do.
And yes, these things are always judged on black and white rules, never any room to just talk and apply common sense
I think maybe the problem - as I wrote earlier - is that if everyone does it then it must be a nightmare managing a group of 100 kids who've all attended school at slightly different times.
It's clearly easy to bulk manage learners if they all learn the same things at the same times.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@Elsie80, have you considered starting a helmet thread?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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We took our daughter out of school for a week in March. our daughter was in year 2 at the time. I asked schools permission, the response from the head was "Your daughter is doing well at school and her attendance is good, I can't authorise it, but I won't fine you".
We have a fantastic relationship with the school, it's a small village school with 1 class per year. They are very much of the mindset that happy children learn more effectively. We spoke with our daughters teacher on the run up to the holiday to ask what work she could do while away. The teacher provided some information about what they would be doing during the week of absence, and provided us with some topical winter sports reading comprehension, her weekly spellings and some math sheets. We also created a diary about the holiday, which included all sorts of information about the culture in france, details of the resort and other fun stuff. The teachers were blown away on her return and really appreciated the effort we and our daughter had gone to, with her school work that week.
To be honest, I honestly believe with the work she did with us, which was only 1 hr per evening after skiing, she did as much, if not more than she would have done had she stayed at school. The plus side, we felt like she hadn't lost out academically, she benefited culturally and the school won't have issue with her being taken out again this winter.
Why did we take her out of school? Because we could not afford to ski during school holidays.
Did us taking her out of school impact on her education? Absolutely not, with the effort we put in with her during the week she didn't miss out at all.
Would we take her out of school again? If it's a choice between her experiencing a ski trip or not, then yes definitely.
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I never quite understand the "cannot afford" angle. If money is tight I assume both parents are working (or a single parent family) so that seems to equate to me to increased childcare costs in the school holidays when parents no longer have enough leave left. So the "costs" are not limited to the headline price. Alternately I guess the kids are put onto relatives for another week of the school hols.
I don't really have much of a problem with the odd day overlap into term or if parents genuinely cannot take leave during school hols (e.g. certain shift pattern jobs) but I do find the "educational" justification for taking kids out of school for a week has a whiff of BS about it. It is equally educational during school hols. By & large if you've made a decision to have your kids state schooled you should respect the system rather than buck against it saying "I know what's best for my kids" whenever it is convenient IMV. After all if you don't want to have them state schooled there are other options including home schooling.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@dp, There is probably no detriment if such activities take place during school holidays rather than term time, but there are many reasons, including cost, and the fact that many employees want school holiday time off work and its not always possible for all of them to be accommodated at the same time etc, making that sometimes impossible.
I believe that extra curricular activities are a very important part of educating a child for life, and parents working with their children s schools are best placed to decide what should happen and when. A school teaches what it does, when it does, if your child misses out on something it may or may not matter, if your child misses out on a weeks skiing in France, it may or may not matter, who knows what will turn out to have been in the child's best interest. But I am happy with the decisions I made about my children's greater education and those decisions would have been harder today than they were a decade or so back!
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@Dave of the Marmottes, why can you not understand the cost angle? The difference in cost for us was literally thousands due to ensuring we had childcare provision of our (the time I cited above 1yr old) and good support for our eldest who was skiing. We had previously skied when we just had the one with family support (my parents once and my sister in law once) but those offers weren't being repeated getting once we had both. The extra week in childcare for the school holiday came to £200 nowhere near the thousands of pounds. Yes now our children and older and we don't need the same support network we have been able to book very affordable half term holiday week for next year going independently and going to Sweden. However it was prohibitive to us previously (tbh the year AFTER the one I mentioned above we didn't have any holiday at all and we hadn't the year before either again due to the finances)
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@NickyJ, A difference of £000s seems a bit extreme. I know supply and demand means TOs are close to real pricing for school hol weeks but it seems that a family would need to have very specific requirements and not be booking at long time out to be paying that much more. Child care clubs etc in resort don't disappear in school hols AFAIK just that they are a scare resource that does get booked early. Every year we have countless examples of people who have organised independently and perhaps self driven at pretty modest prices for half term weeks as you have done for Sweden.
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@NickyJ, A difference of £000s seems a bit extreme. I know supply and demand means TOs are close to real pricing for school hol weeks but it seems that a family would need to have very specific requirements and not be booking at long time out to be paying that much more. Child care clubs etc in resort don't disappear in school hols AFAIK just that they are a scare resource that does get booked early. Every year we have countless examples of people who have organised independently and perhaps self driven at pretty modest prices for half term weeks as you have done for Sweden.
I really don't care if parents do or don't do it on economic grounds but I just wish they'd drop the smug "it's really educational" and the "how dare they dictate what I do with my kids" and admit it is strictly about the pricetag. Which means willingly paying the fine if you do get pinged.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@Dave of the Marmottes, that is my point for our very specific requirements while having at 1 and 4 yr old which extending to the supporting given to the children, the room setup etc it really did make that much difference between going week before Christmas (the absolute cheapest week they did) and going a week later the cheapest school holiday week, I was quite shocked. Ye over time and with the advice from here I have learnt how to get much more affordable school holiday weeks but it doesn't detract from the situation we were in then which was very different to where we are now with a soon to be 8 & 11 yr olds
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@Dave of the Marmottes, you assume incorrectly. The difference in price for us was 2.5k for a like for like holiday. We are far from from bread line, however our winter ski trip is our prioritised holiday of the year. Childcare costs aren't a factor for us. We don't have any. We look after our kids ourselves and we don't have family near to help out. We both work, although we are in a situation where this is during the week for me and weekends for my wife. So for us it is a straight up comparison of the weekly cost of the holiday. In our case this was 2.5k which is a significant amount of money. We are having no other holiday this year so the decision was easy for us to make. As for the decision to have our kids state schooled, this isn't really a decision we have a huge amount of choice in. If I could afford the school fees of local independent schools, I wouldn't be in a position where I would be concerned about 2.5k extra on a holiday!!!
Everyone's situations are different, so I appreciate without visibility of everyone's personal situation, finances and priorities it can be difficult to understand the "cannot afford" angle.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@FastCarver74, I can sort of believe those numbers for a family of 3 or 4 if you got some super duper premium package knockdown in term time but I struggle to believe if you had more modest expectations if you had been going in school hols that the savings are anything like the same magnitude. Just doing some basic maths tells me that for a family of 4 you're essentially comparing a £1500 all in cost with £4k for a week. Ski hire/liftpasses and lessons don't have much delta so you're getting a hell of a deal on flight and accomodation.
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@CaravanSkier, OK I admit I'm playing agent provacateur here and if I had kids I'd no doubt be working the system to ensure we got the maximum possible skiing while still getting a good education (& having other all round development needs met). But these threads seem to be a meme with the same old justifications trotted out time and time again. I'd say don't worry about the fine don't even ask the question if every family is saving £2.5k or more a pop then you can easily fund any fines from the savings. Just don't whine if you do get pinged or have guilt about what the school will think.
& I hope January European skiing doesn't go to ratshit as the crowds descend.
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You know it makes sense.
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I normally pay c£150 pax return ( including bags etc ) for flights to SZG. In the Feb half term they are more like £600 pax. That's £1800 extra for a family of 4 right off the bat. 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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We took our daughter out for a week this year (reception) and will be doing it again (year one) in January. We weren't fined this year, if we are in Jan we'll pay it.
It's a cost-based decision. The same holiday in Feb half-term would be around £2k more.
Amazingly, other parents we talk to on holiday say the same thing. I've yet to meet any who trot out some of the excuses which fill up threads like this 
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Poster: A snowHead
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@Timberwolf, two days drive each way by car?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
I never quite understand the "cannot afford" angle. If money is tight I assume both parents are working (or a single parent family) so that seems to equate to me to increased childcare costs in the school holidays when parents no longer have enough leave left. So the "costs" are not limited to the headline price. Alternately I guess the kids are put onto relatives for another week of the school hols.
I don't really have much of a problem with the odd day overlap into term or if parents genuinely cannot take leave during school hols (e.g. certain shift pattern jobs) but I do find the "educational" justification for taking kids out of school for a week has a whiff of BS about it. It is equally educational during school hols. By & large if you've made a decision to have your kids state schooled you should respect the system rather than buck against it saying "I know what's best for my kids" whenever it is convenient IMV. After all if you don't want to have them state schooled there are other options including home schooling. |
Dave of the Marmottes - the price difference between a Feb half term ski trip and a week or 2 earlier or later is astonishing - family of 5 using a TO were quoted as a minimum £8k for Feb half term, before lift passes, lessons, childcare and ski hire. Same holiday week later was £4k. I get supply and demand, but when you consider parents have in effect 5 weeks out of a whole season when they can legitimately ski as a family I can see why some people would want to take their children out.
We have ended up self catering and flying back on the Monday (effectively missing a day of school, to make the trip reasonable.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Strange how it is ok for schools to organise skiing trips where kids are out of school for a week - but parents are penalised for doing the same.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| FrediKanoute wrote: |
Dave of the Marmottes - the price difference between a Feb half term ski trip and a week or 2 earlier or later is astonishing - family of 5 using a TO were quoted as a minimum £8k for Feb half term, before lift passes, lessons, childcare and ski hire. Same holiday week later was £4k. I get supply and demand, but when you consider parents have in effect 5 weeks out of a whole season when they can legitimately ski as a family I can see why some people would want to take their children out.
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That is extraordinary - for European skiing? You could probably take the whole family for a week in Canada or Western US for less than that. It feels like a bit of a false comparator i.e. you would have to be truly price insensitive to go along with that vs. say self drive and perfectly adequate valley hotel or appartment.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Half term really is an absolute pain, from every point of view. Last year my daughter and son in law - both teachers, so absolutely impossible to go out of school holidays, didn't even have the same half-term week!
Even with self drive and a valley hotel it's not a good option. The roads are choc-a-bloc and it doesn't take much in the way of snow to cause havoc. The pistes are even busier if you go to a resort popular with big-scale UK (or local) tourism.
Most years, Easter is a better option, left till last minute and judicious choice of resort. Many years, Christmas is a better option too. Much cheaper and less busy, though obviously not reliable for snow (hence last-minute arrangements).
We used to take our kids out of school regularly to ski in cheapo early January. It didn't seem like any kind of big deal, in those days! My Dad used always to take me out of school to holiday in June, with the excuse that not everybody in his office could take school holiday breaks. The real reason was that he was crowd-phobic and even camping in Scotland was better in June than in August. I often missed school exams!   Never done me no harm, neither.
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@pam w, I have to admit if I was skiing with kids I'd probably be earmarking a couple of weeks at Easter every year and possibly augmenting with a late steal Xmas week if the conditions warranted it. I supect that parents largely make a rod for their own back by in the main treating half term as the key ski week and wanting to have Xmas at home etc or do other stuff at Easter.
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| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
| @pam w, I have to admit if I was skiing with kids I'd probably be earmarking a couple of weeks at Easter every year and possibly augmenting with a late steal Xmas week if the conditions warranted it. I supect that parents largely make a rod for their own back by in the main treating half term as the key ski week and wanting to have Xmas at home etc or do other stuff at Easter. |
Would partially agree. Easter in general if you have younger kids is better - warmer, better weatherwise and yes cheaper than Feb half term - but its still not overwhelmingly so and if like last season you have a warm March, you can end up with precious little to ski on. So, many parents shoot for half term because if they are going the shell out £7k for a family ski holiday then they really want the best possible chance at the snow being as good as it can possibly be.
In terms of options - you are limited - not all resorts cater for kids fantastically. Its no secret mot of us choose to try to head to a larger resort because they tend to tick most of the boxes - choice of ski lessons; choice of accommodation; childcare options. Especially when kids are young - ours are 7 through 4 - they need more than many smaller resorts can offer. So again you have many people, aiming for a single week, aiming for a few key resorts.
once our kids are older I am vowing never to ski the 3 Vallees again - we are going to head fro some of the smaller resorts. That though is a good 4 to 6 years away!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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FAQ
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