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Austrian piste map colours - what do they mean?

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Can someone explain run colours in Austria please. Piste maps seem to show blue, red and black. Does this mean that in Austria a blue is what would elsewhere be a green; a red be a blue and black be a red iyswim. Cheers
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
There are no green runs, so blue is the easiest, black is the hardest, red somewhere in between.

But I would say this, all runs are white. A busy, icy blue is more difficult than an empty black. Piste pole colours mean very little. I generally have no idea what colour piste I am on and I can't often tell the difference between a blue and a red.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@queen bodecia, you'd have been rubbish in the matrix
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And to add to the confusion, grading standards appear to vary from resort to resort!
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The one that used to confuse me was the purple runs I'd occasionally see on resort maps, thought some esoteric mix of red and blue or unpisted natural terrain or something... turned out they're sponsored by Milka Embarassed
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Thanks all. QB - I take it you're a decent skier then as I'm always aware of what colour run I'm on!! True what you say (although I wouldn't know about the black bit) DJ lol. LOTA, arghhhhh, why can't they all just agree? RS That made me laugh out loud. I take from all this that I need to be a better skier then so colours won't matter so much.
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@bambionskiis, That really depends what you mean by elsewhere. If you mean compared to USA the you are kinda right, if you mean compared to France then no.
Broadly speaking what would be green or blue in France is blue in Austria and the others are the same. Caveat: of course there are variations even within the same country, sometimes even within the same resort! But conditions are more important than gradings, like @queen bodecia said.
There's a helpful wikipedia page here that explains some of the different grading systems: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piste
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My experience is that blacks in France tend to be a lot more black than a black in Austria or in the Dolomites (with a few exceptions). Dolomite blacks in particular seem pretty red. As an example the "black" run in Colfosco.
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@bambionskiis, it does vary hugely from resort to resort and even within a resort. Ever seen a green run called 'Vert' in La Daille? I think any Italian resort would proudly display a red piste marker on it.

I'm not a particularly decent skier, merely an SBS*. But piste pole colours don't bother me, and I don't always look. I find snow conditions are far more of an indication of difficulty.

*SBS = standard British skier, i.e. one or two holidays a year, probably more bad habits than can be documented... wink
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I've often wondered why with all the computing power at peoples disposal these days some genius hasn't come up with a formula for all the variables, degree of slope. width, average useage, snow cover, temperature variation, averages all round of course, and produced a 'standard' to be applied everywhere.?
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Old Man Of Lech wrote:
I've often wondered why with all the computing power at peoples disposal these days some genius hasn't come up with a formula for all the variables, degree of slope. width, average useage, snow cover, temperature variation, averages all round of course, and produced a 'standard' to be applied everywhere.?


I'm sure the EU could come up with a standard wink

Colours are merely a general guide. Piste conditions can vary from day to day and what might be a blue one day could easily turn in to an effective red another day
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Old Man Of Lech wrote:
I've often wondered why with all the computing power at peoples disposal these days some genius hasn't come up with a formula for all the variables, degree of slope. width, average useage, snow cover, temperature variation, averages all round of course, and produced a 'standard' to be applied everywhere.?


I suspect many resorts would object to using that 'standard'. They want to appeal to as many potential punters as possible so some seem to be very creative in their piste gradings.
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Quote:

uspect many resorts would object to using that 'standard'. They want to appeal to as many potential punters as possible so some seem to be very creative in their piste gradings.

Yes, I know a few blues that are as challenging as some blacks.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
hafhound says
'Colours are merely a general guide. Piste conditions can vary from day to day and what might be a blue one day could easily turn in to an effective red another day'

Of course they could. However resorts rarely if ever change their gradings to take account of the changing conditions so it doesn't matter if a 'standard' method of grading runs was in existence or not. They have to start somewhere.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
I've never heard of a resort re-grading runs due to piste condition. It would cost a lot in re-printing of piste maps and open them up to claims "but my piste map from yesterday said this was a blue, that is why I broke my leg"

As @swiftoid, says many resorts want that 40-45% blue, 40-45% red, 10-20% black to attract as many skiers as possible.

Oh, and nearly all runs connecting different areas will be a red at most, again for appeal.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@dode,
Quote:

Oh, and nearly all runs connecting different areas will be a red at most, again for appeal.

Not sure this is true. Thinking about Verbier where a major connecting run is, IIRC, a big mogul field. Then in the Monterosa ski area a couple of connecting runs are marked as black whereas in many resorts they would be red.

I know this rule is not followed everywhere but my basic rule of thumb for grading pistes would be:

Green - flat, suitable for beginners and a nightmare for boarders, avoid if possible
Blue - mainly roads to get you around the resort, dangerous, best avoided
Reds - everything else that is pisted, almost all the skiing in fact
Blacks - big mogul fields, rarely, if ever, pisted but if it is it is only to ensure firm snow. Often closed. (note only 2 out of 24 black runs are currently open in Les Arcs)
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Piste grading is based on local attributes.

When you are skiing a mountain the black runs will be the hardest 'graded' pistes on that mountain.
The reds are in the middle and the blues are the easiest.
Purple is a sledging run or winter walkway.

So they are totally local. If it is a steep difficult mountain then the easiest run will be marked blue.
This may very well compare to a black on an easier mountain.

The colours are purely guides to show you which are the harder runs in that very particular area.
This is why every mountain most often has a black run; as it is the most challenging piste on that mountain.

Diamond routes/itineraries/ski routes are also graded. But just because it is a red diamond, it does not make it comparable to a red piste!

Got it??....
Toofy Grin Toofy Grin Toofy Grin
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Think so flangesax. Puzzled . I get what everyone is saying and why resorts do what they do, but it doesn't really help us "nervous intermediates" plan our choices resort unfortunately.
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@Old Man Of Lech, Oi! Get my name right Toofy Grin
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No need for more regs and standards please.
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The problem with 'standards' is that unless you get significant buy in you just complicate things further.

(https://xkcd.com/927/)
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Blue = Near Resort
Black = Far away
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bambionskiis wrote:
Think so flangesax. Puzzled . I get what everyone is saying and why resorts do what they do, but it doesn't really help us "nervous intermediates" plan our choices resort unfortunately.


Just head to La Plagne, more than enough to entertain a nervous intermediate.
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@bambionskiis, I reckon a nervous intermediate should be looking at quieter resorts/weeks rather than specific piste colours. A busy piste of any colour is always going to be far more nerve wracking.
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If you are a nervous intermediate, consider getting some lessons early in the week. That will both help you become less nervous / intermediate and give you the opportunity to ask the instructor which runs he/she recommends would be good for your level (and conversely which will be good to avoid) for the rest of the week.
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@red 27, ???

@SnoodlesMcFlude, Nope, not really.... but as @Tubaski has mentioned; grab some lessons early in the week and boost your confidence of the area!
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
@flangesax, Puzzled not really enough in La Plagne for early intermediates?
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
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nervous skiers should head for the less crowded resorts, little ones , ie kappl in austria is great to practice on, and close enough to ischgl if you wanted a bit more skiing. Colour is about the easiest, middle and hardest in that resort, so what is black in a small resort could well be a red in a more difficult resort.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@queen bodecia, @biddpyat, +1. The piste will get less cut up and stay groomed longer, giving a more consistent surface to practise on, and as has been said, little distraction from other users.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@SnoodlesMcFlude, dunno?!?... I just re-read that this morning and have no idea!
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
I recently skied in the Ski Juwel and the SkiWelt. Although there seemed to be quite a few runs marked red and black, most wouldn't have troubled a nervous intermediate. Plus one to the lessons - you need the local knowledge of the conditions as that's far more important than the piste colour.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
flangesax wrote:
Purple is a sledging run or winter walkway.


Ah, interesting to know that's also the case in Austria, it certainly is in Switzerland. Although the sledging/toboggan runs are generally kept separate from the pistes there are a couple of places in the Jungfrau region e.g at Grindelwald First where the sledging route shares a blue cat track piste for a few hundred metres. Can be a bit annoying if you have to wait for a large group of tobogganists to proceed.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
flangesax wrote:
@SnoodlesMcFlude, dunno?!?... I just re-read that this morning and have no idea!


Very Happy snowHead I've lost count of the number of times that I've looked at one of my posts and thought "what the hell was I trying to write"
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Tubaski wrote:
The problem with 'standards' is that unless you get significant buy in you just complicate things further.
...


"The nice thing about standards is that you have so many to choose from; furthermore, if you do not like any of them, you can just wait for next year's model."
- Andrew S. Tanenbaum
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bambionskiis wrote:
Can someone explain run colours in Austria please. Piste maps seem to show blue, red and black. Does this mean that in Austria a blue is what would elsewhere be a green; a red be a blue and black be a red iyswim. Cheers


"Elsewhere" in this case being a subset of other countries Smile

Italy and Switzerland also don't have greens, blues in all those three countries roughly correspond to greens and blues in France and Spain (including Andorra). I believe the Scandinavian countries also have greens for the easiest runs.

But as others have said, piste colours only really give an indication of the relative difficulty within one resort. Virtually all resorts will grade the hardest one or two runs as black, even if they would be red in most places.
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Great thanks all. I'd noticed that about Italy and Switzerland. We have done the last 4 years in Scandinavian countries which, as you say, grade greens as well.
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