Poster: A snowHead
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Could anyone recommend a good one-day itinerary of the PdS, starting and ending at Les Gets, and visiting at least one Swiss resort en-route ?
Thanks in advance
Patch
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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As far as I know the Swiss part of PdS is accessed via Avoriaz or by car and road.
For Avoriaz you would need to cross from Les Gets and come down the pleney into Morzine town then get on the ski bus to prodains cable car. Then get across Avoriaz towards Swiss side, I reckon if it wasn't to busy you could do it in a couple of hours then head back same route. Its a nice notion to ski into another country but the snow's just the same. If the snow is good at Les Gets and Morzine you will probably be quite happy there.
There maybe another method but thats the one I know.
Be sure to post the result.
Welcome to Snowheads mon brave.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Thanks Ian,
We've skied Les Gets and Morzine often, but have never made it as far as Switzerland, and the kids are eager to and I thought it'd make a good expedition for them .... so to Avoriaz via Prodains ( would that be better than Super Morzine?)
From Avoriaz, any suggestions for which piste to head for ?
Thanks again
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Patch, if you want to ski Switzerland you need to head for the Chavanette, you can take the chairlift down, this takes you into Champoussin, when snow is good this is some of the best skiing i n the PdS. IMO not worth doing the entire PdS tour, the links are not complete, there's a fair walk through Morgins and lots of T-bars on the Swiss side.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Patch, The Super Morzine way will be a shorter trip over from the Pleney side of Morzine,you will be picked up by land train from the main road just down from the main Pleney cablecar station then after taking the SM bubble up you'll then pick up the signs for Avoriaz, all the runs this way are blue take the Express Proclou (this'll take you over the "Park" at Avoriaz where you can watch people injure themsleves in very cool ways, ski down to Lindaret (not to Ardent though or you'll have to take a long lift back up to Lindaret. At Lindaret take the Lechere and then ski down (50 metres to your left) to the Express Mossettes. The view from Mossettes on a good day is really spectacular and there is a restaurant at the top ideal for a drink stop if required. Ski around the restaurant and your in Switzerland heading for Champoussin, Morgins and Les Crosets there are some other options along the way which you could decide on along the way to vary. You could take Prodains at the start its a longer Navette trip from the bottom of Pleney, probably a faster up lift and this'll deposit you into the centre of Avoriaz just ski where everyone else is going and you'll see two lifts, take the one on the left and this'l get you to where you can ski down to Lindaret again.
To be honest if you have a car I'd drive down to Montriond (next to Morzine) and come by car up to Ardent, past the lake (ooohh thats nice), take the TC up from there and you'll get to Switzerland quicker and have more time to explore the Swiss side.
Les Gets in partic can be a bit "groomed" which is fine for ripping down pistes but the Avoriaz/Ardent side is a bit more rugged and interesting I think - worth the trip
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...I've just returned from a week in Champery on the Swiss side. Ardent and Linderets have great runs and when in the mornings, the Mossettes red is superb down into Les Crosets. The run down to Morgin is interesting (and scenic) to start with but has a very long flat section at the end. I'll be posting some sort of full summary in the "Resorts" section when I get round to it...
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Patch, what standard are you all?
I second Frosty's super morzine recommendation - Morzine to Prodain isn't my favourite link. Myself, I'd get to the top of Lindarets and head straight to Brochaux and directly up Mossettes. Sorry, you will need to consult the piste map. From there, a variety of tracks into Les Crosets. (One point is that you might also be looking to do the "trophy" piste of the "Swiss" or "Chavannette" Wall. In which case obviously it's on the way).
I digress. Cross a little down Crosets and pick up the Pointe de L'au chair via the bunny lift. There's a semi-itineraire straight down into the Morgins valley (with a nice little buvette after the first section). You can then wriggle through Super Chatel into Chatel proper, bus to Linga bubble or pre la joux if time presses and back again.
I would point out that doing this from Les Gets is quite a trek and you don't want to have to be getting a taxi from either Chatel, or worse Switzerland... ££££££££
Another alternative...either Pas de Chavannette or Mossettes into Les Crosets, up the chair on the other side and down into the Grand Paradis. Lovely coffee stop at mcCoquoz facing the Grand Paradis range and new chairs to get you back up again. The lower part of the Grand Paradis pitch is a green path so beware if with boarders.
A couple of timings...
Super Morzine bubble base station to top of Lindarets valley - about 50 mins assuming zero faffage.
Base of Super Morzine bubble to top of Belvedere lift on Pleney (at which point you are safely piste only to Les Gets - I would think 40 minutes depending on Petit Train and how fast you walk/chair queues.
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If you do make it to Morgins the run down to the village is fun, as there are good routes through the trees, or fun to ski straight down the hairpin bends. You then have a 2 min walk to the chair the other side of the village to Chatel. Whith the chnace of a speed gun stop (good for the kids, of all ages) on the way down to Chatel. From here you would need a bus, but normally its a good service.
On the other hand if you dont get to the swiss side, there is some good skiing in the linga valley, with some very good resturants, hidden of the main slopes.
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Thanks all for some great advice, just what I was looking for (I'm going to print this and take it with me )
In summary, looking at Frosty's route, this seems good:
Super Morzine (or maybe Prodain) heading for Avoriaz -> Chavanette -> Champoussin
or Avoriaz -> Express Proclou -> Lindaret -> Lechere Lift -> Express Mossettes ->Champoussin or Morgines
From bottom of Pleney in Morzine, what do you reckon will be quicker (in terms of both queues and getting to) - SM or Prodain ?
David M- Thanks for the timings, they will be very useful
jtobin03 - the speed gun could be fun for the kids !
SharkeyMark - the Mossettes red sounds good - accessible from the Express Mossettes lift I assume ?
David@traxvax - I agree about not trying to do the entire PdS circuit - I think it could be too tiring for the little'uns (though last year they managed La Tania -> Courchevel -> Meribel -> Motterets -> Val Thorens -> Les Menuires ->St Martin -> Meribel -> La Tania in a day ... boy did they sleep well that night )
In terms of standard, the adults will ski just about anything, the kids are very comfortable on blacks, but the youngest being 8 lacks the stamina for long mogul fields (I guess the Swiss Wall is out then ), and also long flatish sections wear them out quickly, so best to avoid that too
Thanks again, and happy skiing to all,
Patch
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Patch, From bottom of Pleney you need to either:
Walk to T.O. (5 mins) and get bus (15 mins + waiting time) to Prodains then possibly queue to go up the cable car. Cable car takes 10 mins or so then a short ski to the "Tour Express" (?) 6 man (5-7 mins) onto the ridge above Lindarets for Mossettes or, if Chavannette, I'd take the "express du stade" (5 mins) and cut over to Chavanettes - avoiding the Express d'Arare which is likely to have a queue.
If Mossettes, I'd personally go straight to Brochaux (remembering not to miss the RH turn) and directly up Mossette (Lechere just is a flat lift across the plateau so a waste of time IMHO).
Or walk 10 minutes to super Morzine bubble, small queue possible, 10 minute bubble, then the new faster 4 man (Zore) 5-7 mins (?) to the traverse to Proclou and 10 minutes up to the top of the Lindarets ridge. Advantages in good weather are that you get to ski a bit more vis-a-vis sitting on a bus then standing in a cable car. I'm not convinced that there's an awful lot of difference in timing.
Alternatively from top of Chavannette, although you will encounter some bumps, take Cubore chair, down the short bumps run on the other side then drag lift up and into Switzerland that way (It's the only drag in the area so hard to miss).
CRUCIAL question - when are you going? In the next 5 weeks it's French school holidays and while Morzine town was busy last week, having everything open meant minimal queuing and reasonably quiet slopes. If the place is stacked you may well encounter a lot more queuing on access lifts...
(Apologies if lift times are a little optimistic...or just plain wrong)
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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David,
Unfortunately, we are going at French half-term (Kids are in a French school). For the last few years we've taken them out of school, so not looking forward to skiing in school hols, but hey... we'll be skiing, and that's what counts
Luckily, we are driving on Thursday, so missing the traffic ... I watched thousands setting off from Paris on Saturday morning
On the same subject, we are planning to buy a Les Gets/Morzine 8 day pass, rather then the PdS pass, 'cos in previous years we've not really made the most of the PdS. Anyone know if it's possible to 'upgrade' for 1 day? If so, how much, and what's involved ?
TIA
Patch
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Patch, I don't think you can "upgrade"...check the PDS website?
Re the vacs scols, hmmm. I'm not sure how much of a difference it makes in queues as they'll all be longer, but I would definitely then avoid central Avoriaz. Chavannette just gets jammed with folks desperate to see if not ski the "Wall". Frankly, if you want steep and bumpy I can suggest some better, stepper and quieter alternatives!
If you're in Les Gets and haven't exploited Chamossiere and Mont Chery, then I recommend those. Also, if you don't mind a wee drive and the small expense, a day trip to Mieussy-Praz de Lys (turn left instead of right at the Pont des Gets) might be a rewarding thought. It has a reputation as a ski de fond station although I think the alpine skiing is rather good. It doesn't have a lot of accomodation so might be a good bet if the crowds get too much.
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Patch, am off to Les Gets on Thursday so may see you there. On the ski pass front a friend recommends that you but the Les Gets/Morzine then a two day PDS, it works out cheaper. Enjoy your ski safari
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You know it makes sense.
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Or even Buy!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Hey i'm heading out to avoriaz, but can any body find me a nice high res piste map with all runs and lifts in PdS?
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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jstw, I could scan and email the PdS piste map if you like...
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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now that's just showing off!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Wings, I know
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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David, We've skied pretty much all there is to ski around Les Gets, including Mt Chéry & Chamossière. Sounds like the Swiss Wall should be avoided because of the crowds. We are only going to Les Gets again because a bunch of mates are there that week.
Wings - yep, see you there - keep eyes peeled for a group of about 25 brits, French and Canadians (I'll be on 187cm Salomon XScreams !!!)
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No that's not showing off just much appreciated
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Wings your one is good, but i like the little things at the side with the run names, cafes etc! But thanks anyway
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Wings, your scans are on their way.
jstw, would you like a copy? If so, send me a blank email through the Memberlist menu so I can reply with attachements
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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The best piste map imho for PdS is the pamphlet one, with a page for each of the zones / massifs. I picked one up last year and reused it this year: I assume they havesomething similar published this year, worth asking for it at the lift-pass office or the Maison de Tourisme. Its much better than the standard Avoriaz piste map, which has PdS on the other side, but in very little detail.
In terms of routes, I'd agree with what was said above regarding the route across Avoriaz: personally I think the petit train and the Super Morzine bubble is more fun. Not as familiar with the Swiss side, except to say that I didn't find the signposts as clear as the French side.
Ant
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...that's the one I use.
Around Avoriaz, the signing is generally very good but I found it deteriorated towards Linga. It is practically non-existent on the Swiss side
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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antpj, Swiss-side: older uplift, T-bars, poorer food, slushier snow, crap signposts, poor lift locations, stale bread, wine in homeopathic sized bottles!!! I could go on...
Quite liked the "Macaronis Montagnards" in the restaurant "Panoramique" above Torgon though, and the bumpy itineraire down from it!
I don't really like the multi page map as all my chums find it confusing. There used to be a much better fold out version that just worked a lot better. I'm going back a few years though...
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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David Murdoch, don't forget empty runs, few lift queues, less Brits , cheaper food and drink (I think the French side is extortionate)...
I think the PdS will be getting one of those 3D Mountmap things in the next year or two anyway
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David Murdoch, agree with you some of the best skiing in the PdS is around Torgons and the links to Super Chatel and not very well used either.
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You know it makes sense.
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Sharkymark, there is a reason the runs are empty. And I'd rather pay a little more for quality! In general, I find the Swiss side rather uninspiring, honest.
David L., It's a pity Torgon is such a trek (and so badly lift served...) Likewise Grand Terche and Abondance. Nice Rando back down from Abondance into St Jean d'Aulps though...
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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David Murdoch,
Some (but by not all) of the slopes on the Swiss side were a bit mushy last week. Still managed to find good snow. Linga had the best tho
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Poster: A snowHead
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Sharkymark, You clearly weren't returning from Torgon to prodains around 15h45 on Thursday then? Linga often has the best snow IMHO, although I have a soft spot for Cheri Nord.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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15h45 on Thursday...I was probably over by Ripaille or Crosets in the Champery area. We went to Linga via Avoriaz that morning I think. We didn't get to Torgon unfortunately.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Sharkymark, Thanks for the map, much better than the web, cheers!Patch, I will look out for the large group and you on your snazzy ski's.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Wings, no probs
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Sharkymark, hmmm, we were passing through crosets and the snow wasn't great, honest...
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David Murdoch, the snow on the slalom course was good (north facing) as was Ripaille. Mossettes was truly terrible, as were the runs down from Champoussin (which I guess were the routes you would've approached from????). Unbelievably, we found a few square feet of powder in a small hollow next to Ripaille
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Can't you get on the Prodains bus at Pleney? If you timed it right for the bus, I would not bother with Super Morzine. The route to Avoriaz is flat flat flat and you had better have a good wax job if the snow is slushy.
Also at Les Prodains, you can get on a chairlift instead of getting the cable car. Will take you longer to get to Avoriaz but at least you do some proper skiing on route. Looking at the piste map, you could bypass Avoriaz all together.
Sharkymark, agree with you about French side restaurants being more expensive than the Swiss side (based on a sample of 1 Swiss restaurant but it was in a good location).
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neilswingler, thanks, I'll ask at the bottom of Pleney to confirm, but that sounds like a good option
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Sharkymark, ah, the northfacing runs would be good I'd think. We were in a little hurry to get home (probably later than 3.45 thinking about it...). Snow does marvellous things doesn't it - like shake itself off, dry up and turn fluffy. Just needs a little shade and cold ambient air. I can easily believe you finding a little stash!
neilswingler, I don't think you can get on the P bus at Pleney - although it stops at the bus stop along from the ESF a little below Pleney bubble I believe its next stop (and potential wait) is at the T.O. I may well be wrong - it may be a continual service - it would make sense. But then, it's France.
The route to Avoriaz isn't that flat - just very gentle.
Patch, The chairs from Prodains are in the shade early morning and are old non-detachable slow types. Young kids may find it a little chilly. Certainly my group of hardy (if hungover) adults were complaining by the time we got to the top of Machon.
Just shows you how refreshingly varied a bunch of (equally valid) options (and choices) we'd all make!
Sharkymark, neilswingler, funny, my anecdotal opinion is that Swiss side is more expensive and poorer value/quality - but I don't normally pay an awful lot of attention to the price unless it's ridiculous. Must conduct a proper survey.
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David Murdoch, it's a shame my mate then proceeded to jump into it exclaiming "Powder! Look! Powder!" and destroyed it all. It was wierd on Saturday (4th February) when the temperature plummeted to -10 deg.C, how the snow changed into squeaky stuff again despite being slushy a few days before.
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