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Is this the worst ever start to a European ski season?

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
This isn't very scientific but ...
there are three resorts I go to quite a lot. One in Scotland, one in northern French Alps, one in central Austrian Alps i.e. they cover a very broad area of European mountains.
Looking at the websites for each place there is hardly any snow at all - just a very thin strip of snow cannon snow at two of the places.
I know it's not that unusual to have poor snow in some areas pre-Christmas but I don't remember a time when so much of the Alps and Scotland were so snowless this late in December.
Oh well, I guess it only adds another dimension to the wider general awfulness of 2016!
Fingers crossed it will all switch round within a week or so...
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Yay, another trolling, melodramatic "we're all doomed" post...just like the ones from last year rolling eyes

I assume you mean in terms of snow rather than piste conditions? Seems that people in resort are saying that the skiing is much better than last season.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Conditions suck, but I think it probably still is better than this time last year.
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Conditions aren't so bad in the Pyrenees, particularly in Grandvalira (Andorra), and in Boí-Taüll and Cerler (Spain). But then again, they weren't so bad last season either...
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It's better here than it was this time last year.
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Don't look at websites, then it doesn't look like the Alps are doomed Wink

Skied all of last week. OK it wasn't knee deep powder, but just about all of it was perfectly skiable snow. Just one teeny tiny bit of grass poking through on one piste, and another small patch of brown on the steepest black run that was open.

Thought the Dolomites had a huge dump not so long ago.
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
No.
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After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Brexit? Trump? Russia?
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Better here than it was this time last year too.
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I must have missed something. I can't see where NN is saying "We're all doomed"; or where he is being "melodramatic."

Seems to me like he's simply asking a sensible question, backed up by his experience of not remembering "a time when so much of the Alps & Scotland were so snowless this late in December. "
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@Bergmeister, He is more regular than Nixmap......have look back wink
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Best start for ages here.......
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So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
3vs are in good shape higher up. better than last year at this time.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Skiing across Paradiski better than last year.
And some runs better than we've often found them - extensive snow making and persistent cold have made some often icy runs much more enjoyable than usual, especially the runs down to Montalbert (1350) and La Roche (1250).
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@Bergmeister, "worst season ever" doesn't rate a melodramatic in your book? Certainly does in mine, especially as people have largely been saying that conditions are okay.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@Neil Neige

1. No.

2. How can you possibly include Scotland? It doesn't get anything like the continental weather system. And suffers more from other problems e.g. wind and drifting. So conditions in Scotland will rarely reflect conditions in the Alps except when all are good but there will still be little to no linkage.
----------------------------

Just back from a very lovely weekend in Champoluc - OK, no off piste, but that's hardly surprising in December... Mind you we did ski some side piste powder ther etwo weeks ago...

Webcams rarely well situated to show what the realistic conditions are as they are usually attached to whatever structure is available, and then positioned as best as possible, which isn't usually great.

rolling eyes rolling eyes
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
In recent years...
Tignes was glacier only plus a rock solid ice sheet from top to bottom for the MM piste.
Les Gets was grass in January, with new year a washout, most of PdS shut, with day tickets being sold for limited Avoriaz area only.
Meribel was rock solid snowcannon marble nonsense from top to bottom the previous time I did an IO course.
From what I understand, the Meribel IO attendees had to be bussed to VT either last year or the year before.

All of those were much much worse than last week in 3V.

Not the best, for sure. But certainly not the worst. Not in recent years, and not ever.

When there's no snow whatsoever in October/November/December, no pre-season dump, 100% grass right the way thru from the pre-season weekend openings until 2nd week Jan, then it might qualify for "worst ever" or "worst for a very long time".

Hmmm, that's a pretty long winded way to say what pamw said.

If skiing on piste is beneath you, then, I'll agree it's pretty poor if you only want to make fresh tracks in virgin powder. edit: but 3V has quite a bit of powder that's been tracked out 2 weeks or more ago, so that must have been a pretty good start that went a bit meh later Wink


Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Tue 20-12-16 8:49; edited 1 time in total
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
No, it's not as bad as previous but its a fair enough point to make. I understand the OPs feelings and for me I think its more to do with the erosion of patience over the last four years since the early 2013/14 season. In 'normal' times, where we might get this every now and again we might moan but also accept that these things are going to happen every few years and that the snow will come when it comes etc
However, after four consecutive years of this the glass is definitely feeling half empty as far as the confidence goes and people are maybe more despondent than the actual conditions dictate they should, at least rationally, be.
I agree Scotland is not a reliable indicator in the way the Alps are but of late has often been a better contra indicator when the blocking hasn't sat over the UK to the extent it has this year. Although that seems about to change? snowHead
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@robboj, while I see your point, I think that is rather more to do with people's short and fallible memories (maybe the relative youthfulness of the readers of this august organ?)

This winter is not so abnormal, but then I am looking back having watched since 1988-89 (my first alpine season) and so it's really not so unusual.

Problem is 1. that most people haven't been skiing and 2. memories of great starts condition the expectations.

It should also be said that most of our clients want the conditions we had in Monterosa at the weekend - smooth, firm, well maintained pistes and azure blue skies.

One could argue that for Monterosa it's one of the best starts to the season in ages!!
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I suppose you have to set the timeframe as the last 60 years, say since 1960, when skiing was fairly developed in the Alps. In that case, according to Meteo France, there have been 6 similar starts to the season but 3 of them over the last 3 years. So looked at in the whole then it has been the worst run of starts to winter in France and the seasons haven't been particularly great globally.

It may be that resorts have managed snow slightly better with more ability to make snow this year compared to last. Snow cover, at least along the French/Italian border is better above 2100 meters compared to last year. To quote Meteo France

Quote:
The snow is absent at low and medium altitude, and up to quite high altitude in the sunny slopes. Higher, it is present but the snow is rather lower than normal, except near the Italian border where it is on the contrary surplus thanks to the abundant snowfall that occurred at altitude from 23 to 25 November.


Discounting snowmaking I would say this year is worse than last year below 2100 meters. The only significant snowfall over most of the French Alps came early in November (11th this year - 20th in 2015). Locally, where I am, in the western part of the French Alps it is very dry. There are plenty of places I've been over the last couple of weeks where the natural snow cover is less than at the same time in 2015.

Here is a day for day comparison at Meribel

11 Dec 2015



and 11 Dec 2016



There is both less natural and man-made snow.

That said, I would say the "start of the season" probably ends after the New Year holiday break so a couple of weeks to go before calling it.
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Here in Serre Che it's a much better than the previous two years!

If you think about it the mid stations are always where the big restaurants are, where the ski schools meet after lunch, where the nursery areas often are etc

These mid stations were built pre snow cannon and there's a reason for that!

Here in Serre Che the snow line is around 1900 so above the mid stations the cover is great - below the mid stations all the runs to resort are open with artificial snow.

And if you click here http://www.stylealtitude.com/serrechevalierweathercam.html you can see those runs and how just a few cms can transform how a resort looks, though have to say it's a bit bad when certain travel / chalet operators on social media are saying that we've had a dump so book now !!!!
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@davidof, very good point re natural snowfall. e.g. Monterosa is only doing as well as it is due to very well managed snow making. Without that it would be somewhat disastrous.
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under a new name wrote:
@davidof, very good point re natural snowfall. e.g. Monterosa is only doing as well as it is due to very well managed snow making. Without that it would be somewhat disastrous.


I think we can conclude, leaving snow making out, that some areas are doing better than last year, some less well but that the picture is, as ever, variable but not great. The French TV networks have finally picked up on it and there will be a lot of negative publicity for Christmas week. TF1 had a report on les Saisies and yes, there is some skiing but a lot of the visitors they interviewed were going to spend the week walking or MTBing.

I read that ski resorts could, financially, cope with 1 bad year in 3. A lot of areas and businesses will be on the brink this year.

On a positive note for ski areas, if there is no snow the weather is often good and the Maghreb is almost off limits due to terrorism so cheap Christmas holidays in N. Africa are much less popular.
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Quote:

MTBing

Rumour has it that Les Gets and Champery opened up some MTB DH trails at the weekend, with some lifts pedestrian and MTB only. All on the sunny facing slopes.

The year I arrived to grass, they could have just about opened them all. We still managed 6 days skiing that year. So even when it's bad or really bad, that doesn't mean no skiing, by a long way.
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Quote:

some areas are doing better than last year, some less well but that the picture is, as ever, variable but not great


So pretty normal for xmas week then...
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@davidof,
Quote:

the Maghreb is almost off limits due to terrorism so cheap Christmas holidays in N. Africa are much less popular.
Is the Maghreb a big holiday area for the French (or other N. Europeans?). Apart from a small amount of package tours to Tunisia and some more expensive niche holidays in Marrakech I didn't think this was a major tourist area. Am I mistaken?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
It's very quiet here. A lot of local French visitors probably decided not to bother with only 19 pistes open. Snowmaking cover hasn't changed here and this year conditions are far better. My daughter and SiL were here Christmas last year and are very pleased. The two red runs open are below 2000m and without any snowmaking. Easterly aspect.
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Well Les Carroz is dire, just the tiny beginners area at the top of the gondola open, (1750m) with the short drag and carpet running. They are making massive amounts of snow on the blue down to les molliets, and the cannons down to the village and around the gondola base are going every night.

We have been coming here for the nearly the last twenty years, and yes there have been bad years, but nothing quite like this. I think next week you will be able to go up the 6 man chair and ski down again to les molliets on man made snow? and maybe a bit more? but around the gondola top is still rather like autumn. It was much better last year lower down, like here, but its better this year higher up.

Flaine is ok above 2000 metres, but below that there are stones, rocks etc and its very thin and it is really rather limited what is open, but they have prepped it really well.

It is also very quiet, only 8 cars in our residence car park that is normally crammed with 45 (which is probably a good thing as the lights have gone bang....again!)

At least we are not down in the valley, cluses etc as its just a sea of fog..........ugh
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
foxtrotzulu wrote:
@davidof,
Quote:

the Maghreb is almost off limits due to terrorism so cheap Christmas holidays in N. Africa are much less popular.
Is the Maghreb a big holiday area for the French (or other N. Europeans?). Apart from a small amount of package tours to Tunisia and some more expensive niche holidays in Marrakech I didn't think this was a major tourist area. Am I mistaken?


it was getting v. popular for "winter sun" type holidays as the French fell out of love with skiing at Christmas due to costs. With the rise of terrorism it is much less popular.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
It is another disastrous early-season for the European Alps.

Bookings down.
Resort revenues down.
Snowfall down.
Opened trails down.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
I was in Tenerife last week and there were a surprising number of French....and Italian.

I have been skiing since 1986 and remember many years of dire warning about lack of snow/end of Alpine ski holidays. Also a few holidays with poor snow. I have never booked a ski holiday before 20th January - wonder why!
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Just book a Glacier holiday if your worried, takes all concerns out of the situation
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Back in the days before snowHeads, I always thought of Christmas as a time you might go 'on holiday to a ski resort' in the hope of getting some skiing in but not as a time to go 'on a ski holiday'.
I used to wait until the very last minute to book a trip in the first or second week of Jan, in case the snow hadn't arrived.
This is all just normal isn't it?

Webcams have a lot to answer for too - I've honestly had people worrying about signing up to February's Birthday Bash, because the webcams were showing no snow in October rolling eyes
Pre-webcam, we just had our memories of how snowy a place was last time and naturally, in our mind's eye saw the place always to be that way. We hardly questioned conditions until the bus up to resort.
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@admin, you didn't look at snow depths on Teletext (in days of yore)?
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The opening weekend in EK was epic. The best 3 day trip I have ever done.

I'm back there for new year and it's snowing at the moment. What's not to like?

PdS isn't looking too good. https://www.morznet.com/webcams/mont-chery Then again, it never does before early/mid January.
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Better here than last year, not so warm in December, less stones on the pistes. Valentine black now open back to resort, blue will be soon, both man made snow. So skiing from 1650m to 3600m with some really good skiing on over half of that.
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Better here (Veysonnaz/Thyon) than last year, mainly thanks though to the outstanding piste management and the low temperatures so the cannons have been on nearly permanently. Its possible to ski back down to the station. Not so great for other places though, we had people from as far as Villars skiing here at the weekend.
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Aside from the various glacier runs, is anywhere open with only natural snow, or does every resort now need man made?
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@PowderAdict, I don't think that many resorts could claim to be 100% natural for most of the season. Admittedly my trips usually fall in January, last week of March or April, but in all 6 trips I've seen cannons going when the temperature is right.
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As far as the World Cup ski racing season is concerned the only races that have been cancelled so far were in Lake Louise and Beaver Creek (the latter was moved to Val D'Isère). Today's women's race in Courchevel was cancelled due to high winds.

I seem to remember a lot more was cancelled last season and St Anton's races were moved to Zauchensee. This season seems colder, but certainly dry.
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