 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi,
Looking to ski the first week in April with 11 my y.o. son (intermediate skiers), first time to Europe. Don't want to drive, train or other easy transfer to ski resort. Good airfares to Munich, Geneva, Zurich, and Milan. BEST fare to Paris (is it easy and somewhat inexpensive to get to a good resort from Paris?). Any and all recommendations appreciated. Just came up with this idea (instead of going to Utah), not much time to research. Resorts that tend to speak English probably prefered. More dummy proof the better.
Thanks!!!!!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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KYB,
Welcome to 
If you flew into Paris you could have a 4 hr or so train journey to the Alpes via TGV. This very fast train would go to the French Alpine towns of Moutier, Bourg St Maurice, St Gervais and Grenoble. Not sure what the additional train fare would be. You could also get to Bern and Geneva.
But to stick with the French gateways of Moutier and Bourg SM these two open up the 3 Vallees which consists of Meribel, the Courchevals and Les Menuire/Val Thorens. La Plagne and Les ArcsVal D Isere/Tignes - about 90mins by coach are accessed from BSM desinated trains although you might get off further down the line.
St Gervais serves Chamonix with a local train up the final part of the journey. Chamonix is only a 1 hr or less taxi ride from Geneva anyway, Verbier in Switzerland is 90mins and Zermatt about 4 hrs.
Grenoble serves Les Duex Alpes and Alpe d'huez in 90mins or so and Lyon 2hrs. These would be a train link from Paris but you are adding 6-7 hrs journey time
Zurich is a 90min or so train ride straight into Engelberg and 3 hrs or so to St Anton, Austria.
I assume you know of these resorts and all should have good high mountain skiing at that time of the seaso0n. Indeed, April has had some of the the best conditions these last few years.
I have just given you a few thoughts on where from where but would rule out Paris unless it was sigificantly cheaper per head, ie $200 or so because you would involve additional expense and time getting from Paris to the resorts.
None of the resorts I've listed have any problem with English.
As you refine you criteria and choices I am sure we can all put a bit more meat of the bone and get more specific with our answers but this is a start.
Apologies if you know all this...
Do you have wish list of resorts...??
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I think it might be cheaper to go to Paris and get the train to moutiers/bourg than fly to geneva and taxi? Never done it that way (although I have done the overnight sleeper version) but when I last looked the train fares were pretty cheap and both moutiers and bourg are very convienient for the slopes? Taxi from geneva to les arcs for instance is about £250? Geneva to val thorens about £200? versus taxi from bourg to les arcs is £50, moutiers to val thorens £80...Thats assuming you are like me and can't be bothered with faffing with coaches and buses  If you don't mind digging into schedules you can probably do something from geneva by bus/coach....although ski schedules do start to stop around that time...
First week in april I'd be inclined to think Val Thorens or Tignes would be your best choice - not much else really high enough to have great snow at that time of year...
aj xx
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Thank you for your comments!!! I think I am heading to Paris, airfare is cheap (about the same price as to fly to Utah, less than flying to Denver) and will spend a few extra days in the city (why not...). In regard to resorts, any specific recommendations would be appreciated. I am just know becoming familar with the resorts, obviously the first concern is snow - want to be able to ski. Need a resort that caters to more advance novice to high intermediate skiing, probably more family orientated (not necessary). The "classic" village setting would be nice but not necessary. Don't need cheap but on the other hand we are not royality. I will look at Val Thorens or Les ARCs. Please assume I know nothing!!!!
Thanks again.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Seconded the suggestion to take the TGV train to the likes of Bourg. Resort coice in the first week of April (before the French on holiday) could be left to later. It is unlikely to be that difficult to find what you need in the resort with the best conditions even at the last minute. Have sent you a "PM".
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Quote: |
| Bourg or BSM also serves Val D Isere and Tignes which would need a 90min coach ride |
You can get a reasonably priced taxi up from the station - Bourg/Tignes is 30 mins more or less, for example. Here are some typical rates. (Driver's a friend, but I'm on zero commission!)
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KYB, maybe you've already decided on Paris, but I would also recommend the Arlberg to you for spring skiing. St.Anton is open until end of April. Mid April is a great time to go there. No crowds, and usually the whole resort is still open. The easiest transfer is from Zürich. Just get on a train direct to St.Anton.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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KYB,
Ok, here are other little pointers.
St Anton: top class ski resort with a traditional Austrain Village/town feel, renowned for off-piste and a lively crowd. The piste skiing defers to the off-piste but you can train straight in from Zurich in a few hours...
Zermatt; a gem, classic scenery in both town and mountain, almost unsuprassed in this respect, a big area for keen skiers.
High alpine skiing but not classic motorway skiing. It has just about everything else IMV.
4 hrs train from Geneva into a car free village/town.
Chamonix...large French town with huge off-piste terrain, every one should visit here once but not the most convenient layout for skiers. For certain types it is worth the effort. TGV from Paris, then mountain railway.. A mountaineers town and far removed from the typical US rockies type of places.
My view would be that the 3 above are serious skier resorts and therefore may not suit your profile this time around... but they are must-visits for keen Euro skiers once in a lifetime IMO.
The 3 vallees...huge huge huge area and accessable from the TGV from Paris via Moutier, needs a ride up the final valleys.
Has three distinct valleys , hence the name; Coucheval, Meribel and Val Thorens which is the highest resort in the alpes I think...
Very popular with Brits...!!! Not the most traditional of villages as these are mostly purpose built
La Pagne..huge intermediate oriented area consisting of multiple villages, some attractive, like Belle Plagne IMV, some not, most of them are high, the more charming tend to be lower and real villages.. lift linked to Les Arc which sits high above Bourg ( BSM) which is rain linked via TGV from Paris. Les Arcs is also a huge high ski area. Home or home from home of many snowheads..
BSM is village which can access many resorts.
Val D Isere/Tignes...Espace Killy ..huge ski area and again suited to all types of skier. A bus ride/taxi upfrom BSM. World class resort which lacks for......not much at all...!!
The is not of course a definitive summary, other live at these places and ski them and know them more that I do...but I've just tried to present a concise piece about what these resorts may have going for them and save you a bit of work. If you can do a bit of homework and select a couple of places for research then you will get someone here who can answer in more detail, I'm sure.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Recommended web-sites for last minute condo deals? Any good books on skiing Europe for the first time - etiquette, signage, etc....
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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KYB, As you're going to Paris you could do worse than come here. The TGV from Paris to Grenoble takes approx 3 hours and there's a bus service from the station in Grenoble to Les Deux Alpes (5 euros e/w I think). I believe you can get the train direct from the airport. I've had a number of Irish clients do this!
. We're high (1650m), and have summer skiing on the glacier, (up to 3600m) so are totally snowsure guaranteed. We usually have fairly substantial snowfalls in April, so there would hopefully be powder too if you wanted it. We have nearly 1 Km of pistes in the town for beginners and moderate skiers, and also have nursery slopes at 2100m and at the glacier. There's a large amount of difficult skiing if you like that sort of stuff. We have 220Kms of pistes. We're not posh or ridiculously expensive.
Plenty of accommodation choice that week from 4* hotels to self catering apartments and everything in between. We're not pretty as a town, but OTOH we're not purpose built either, so there is plenty of variety in both the architecture as well as the pistes.
Websites are: Tourist Office www.les2alpes.com Lift Company www.2alpes.com (has interactive piste map) and mine is below
Trail = piste Green = easy Blue = middling Red = difficult Black = very difficult
All chairlifts have safety bars and you must use them.
There is no such thing as out of bounds in France
If you want any specific details you could PM me and I'll help all I can
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KYB,
People can argue that the Alpes are different but not so much that it would completley throw you IMV. Generally the resorts are much much bigger.. Vail, for example is dwarfed by 90% of the suggestions on here and the skiing might be termed a bit wilder as you aren't pampered so much.. You get on with it and ski what the there is in terms of conditions and most Americans I've met embrace this after they have got used to it. You will notice that a lot of continentals don't understand the concept of a queue and lifts and buses can be a free-for-all. Don't worry, just don't hold back....enjoy the scrum, nobody minds pushing as everyone does it... It can even be great fun after a while..!!
Europeans can be picky at the many restuarants but mostly the food is more variable than US fast food types stuff. The alpes are not so much better or worse, just different.
Most resort web sites have accomodation sections and a lot offer accom run by Brits. Just type in the resort name you are interested in and see loads of deals. We also have this concept of a chalet hliday which is a type of house party in the snow.
The chalet is a home from home with a couple who cook and look after you for the week. A great way to meet like minded people
and a font of info. A few will probably turn up here and let you know more.
Hint; google Val d Isere ski deals or which ever resort and see what you get.. and also the resort tourist office to see the resort in better detail....
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You know it makes sense.
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easiski,
Hi Charlotte,
This looks like a great place too. I went to your website, very helpful. Two questions (probably more to follow - sorry). Is there a village atmosphere - does it feel like a French Village? Want to experience "real" France not so much a resort experience. Vehicle's not needed?
Thanks for your time and look forward to your response (Do they really hate Americans in France? - not that I don't blame them....)
Best Regards,
Barry.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Thanks to the kindred spirits on this Board - what a great site!!!! I just purchased my tickets - This Board gave me the confidence that my son and I can pull off our first ski trip to Europe in 2 months (first trip to Europe in general!). Thanks again, I will be continuing my quest for additional information (i.e. more questions are forthcoming). Hopefully one day I can contribute.
KYB
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Mike Lawrie,
| Quote: |
| They have certainly got a sense of self righteous contempt for anything American, or British, or German, or for anyone that doesn't speak their language with fluency for that matter. |
I think that's a touch OTT Mike! Many French, Germans, Austrians, indeed the British themselves, 'suffer' from a certain amount of pride in their countries, languages and cultures. However these days you rarely see contempt as such - especially in tourist areas - unless a visitor goes out of his way to demonstrate disrespect, showing no effort whatsoever to adapt a little to the customs and practices of the place he/she is visiting, or being downright insulting.
Speaking with particular knowledge of the French there is - sometimes - criticism of certain American attitudes and what is perceived to be somewhat 'insensitive' global policies at times, but the French, particularly the younger generations, often can't get enough of American culture and language. I would say that you are wrong about a broad-ranging contempt for anything American, German or British label - very wrong indeed. In fact I would have to say that that simply isn't true at all.
Unlike the British, the French haven't been able to insulate themselves from the rest of the world by a narrow ribbon of water for centuries. They've spent the past millenium and more 'integrating' with their neighbours - no choice in the matter! They don't have any special hang-ups about anyone in particular, although they do find the British preoccupation with the French rather intriguing!
Villages: True, but when people talk about the mega resorts they tend to forget that the ski-in ski-out higher altitude developments aren't all there is to these ski areas. In Tignes, Les Arcs, La Plagne etc there are real Savoyard villages linked in to the lift system. And of course on the valley floor you can find as much authenticity as you like.
Queues: Yes that can be true at times JT, but to put it into context you do have to have a queue in the first place - and having been skiing for two months since early December I've yet to find a single queue. Ok February is upon us, and French school holidays, and then your predictions will come true for a few weeks. But it's not as bad as all that if you go with the flow, and then come March it's back to normal. No queues.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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KYB, As you're flying to Paris you have just about the whole of Europe within reach, however I would say that apart from the highest resorts most Austrian resort's season ends in late March, Swizterland less so but the choice is restricted compared to France. From Paris by TGV (high speed train) you're only a few hours away from all the major ski resorts with good April skiing, the southern Alp resorts tend to lose their lower runs first but in the Haute Tarentaise, there's skiing until March and the road to Italy from our village; La Rosiere, doesn't open until June, too much snow on the Col de Petit St Bernard.
There are a number of daily TGV services from Paris that stop at Chambery, they are vey quick and amazing value, rail travel in France is Govt. subsidised and a real bargain. From Chambery you can take connections; to the southern Alps resorts of Le Deux Alpes and Alpe D'Huez, to Moutiers for the 3 Valleys; Val Thorens, Courchevel, Meribel etc. Aime for La Plagne and Bourg St Maurice for the whole of the Tarentaise valley, the three biggest French resorts are here, Val d'Isere, Tignes and Les Arcs, ste Foy and La Rosiere, the only resort in Savoie with International skiing.
You could take 'La Tarentaise' an overnight sleeper service that leaves from Paris's Gare d'Austerlitz every night at about 2200 hrs and arrives in Bourg St Maurice next morning at 06.45hrs, you may have to share a couchette, there are 4 or 6 per compartment and carriages are dropped off at various stations en route. We have a lot of guests who use this service as it can give an extra day and halfs skiing, it doesn't leave Bourg St Maurice until the evening arriving in Paris next morning.
Of the 3V's resorts, Val Thorens is the most snow sure, it's the highest resort in Europe at 2100metres but the 3V links often breakdown at Meribel in late season, it's south facing and just about every 3V link goes through Meribel so it can get tracked out.
La Plagne has a glacier but it wouldn't appeal on aesthetics although some of the newer developments there are more sympathetic to the location, it was one of the earliest mega-stations in France and it shows.
In the Haute Tarentaise just about every resort has good snow through April, they're all high and there is over 1,600kms of pistes in the Haute Tarentaise and more off-piste than you can ever imagine, the resorts are mostly mega-stations, Tignes and Les Arcs are purpose built ski-in ski-out resorts and Val d'Isere long ago lost any connection to the village it used to be. However ther aer 2 resorts in that haven't lost their village atmosphere and charm, Ste Foy and La Rosiere. Ste Foy might be a bit small for a week, there are only 4 lifts, it is however fentastic after a fresh snowfall, the entire terrain is skiable. La Rosiere could provide just what you're looking for, it's still a village there's a very freindly atmosphere and the skiing in France and Italy is superb, there's over 150kms of pistes some fantatic off-piste and it's the only resort in France that can offer heli-skiing. We have some of the best off-piste in Europe including a 20kms off-piste intinery that's rated one of the three best off-piste descents in the world. You can find some reviews of La Rosiere in the resorts section of snowHeads.
If we can tempt you to La Rosiere, maybe we can tempt you to our chalet Le Mouflon, you'll be guaranteed a warm welcome and some great skiing. We have aterrific snow record especially late season, it's all to do with our proximity to Mont Blanc, you can find the Ski Club of Gt Britain's historical snow records for La Rosiere on our website www.tracksvacations.com together with some information about the resort and links to the Tourist Office, ski schools and web cams etc. We cam also offer Ski Randonee, where you tour a different resort in the Tarentaise every day with a qualified high-mountain guide. If you've any questions don't heistate to contact me either by PM or email to info@tracksvacations.com. I hope this is helpful for you and you get to enjoy some of the best skiing in the world.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I've always more got the feeling they enjoy watching me do the silly 'speak slowly and look hopeful thing' (In french but my french is so hit and miss I don't know why I bother) than any actual contempt. Like most places 95% of the people you meet are cheerful, helpful friendly and generally customer oriented - it's only the odd person that might be a little off with you, and no more so than anywhere else...
For the queuing can I advise not following the above advice to chuck yourself into it with abandon - in my experience while it is acceptable to be a bit 'cheeky', and everyone does tend to stay rather close packed, full on pushing and shoving is not really the norm? In fact as far as I can tell the majority of long suffering french are pretty polite queuers (go to LDA for a lively demo of this) they may slide right up onto you, but they rarely shove, or blatently queue jump - it seems to be their visitors that are the rude ones....
aj xx
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brian
brian
Guest
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KYB, if you want the "classic" alpine thing then I would head for Switzerland.
Fly to Geneva, transfer by train to Zermatt, a Swiss transfer ticket is about $90 I think. Unbelieveable scenery, a big high altitude ski area, best for intermediate advanced and a car free "chocolate box" village. Has a reputation for being expensive but I think France (especially the 3V and espace Killy) has at least caught it up, and children up to age 9 ski free.
Saas Fee, in the next valley may also suit. They call it the "pearl of the alps".
Don't get me wrong, I love France, its people, its language and most of all, its food but for alpine "magic", Zermatt takes a bit of beating.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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KYB, Anywhere high but Chamonix. 
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I would just like to add that I have no problems with the 'queue' system, just don't stand there and expect to wait your turn, it might be a long time coming. After the US policy of the lifty calling you forward for your turn it might be a bit of a shock, thats all.
And PG is right that the lift systems can be so huge that queues are a high season thing mostly
Although I do remember the scrums for the buses.... !!!!!! 
But most Europeans who have skied a bit do not notice the queueing issue at all, they just get on with it..
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One note if looking for TGV timetables to get from Paris, the station for the 3 Valleys (Meribel / Courchevel / Val Thorens) is "Moutiers Salins Brides-Les Bains". There is at least one (?) other station called "Moutier(s)" in France and this may cause some confusion. Have a great trip!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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KYB, I head over from Boston almost every year so here's 2 cents from an American perpective.
You're going late enough to make the availability of snow most important. With this in mind, the high, purpose built places are definitely the best for you for this trip, but there's no need to worry about ambiance because they're plenty of fun too. I'd recommend Val d'Isere/Tignes any time of the year but especially for April. Val d'Isere has that genuine atmosphere that you'd like, so you should stay there and it's also over 1800 meters anyway. The ski links up into Tignes are easy and the sheer size of the place will blow you away.
The other place that would be very good would be Val Thorens. It's purpose built but it's a fun place that you and your son woud enjoy just like my 9 year old son and I did a few years back. It links into Meribel and Coucheval which are both famous resorts with good skiing. It's one the the biggest, if the the biggest interlinked resorts in the world. Certainly, it's the most convenient for a place this size.
I've never been to Les Deux Alpes or Alpe D'Huez (We'll get there soon) but they also have high glacier skiing as noted by others earlier. I'm sure they'd be fun too.
With any of these choices you can't go wrong, but staying in Val d'Isere and skiing the whole Espace Killy with Tignes should satisfy all your needs. The french are just fine by the way. In the resorts you can tell they want us to be there. I've had only positive experiences. OK, perhaps one or two snobby shopkeepers, but really nothing to concern yourself with at all.
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[quote="KYB"]easiski,
This looks like a great place too. I went to your website, very helpful. Two questions (probably more to follow - sorry). Is there a village atmosphere - does it feel like a French Village? Want to experience "real" France not so much a resort experience. Vehicle's not needed?
Thanks for your time and look forward to your response (Do they really hate Americans in France? - not that I don't blame them....)
quote]
Of course I'm biased (as I live here), but I think we have the best of both worlds: a big ski area and a big town, but with a real community "feel". I wouldn't say we're "villagy", but if you book independently and walk around a bit you'll soon feel a friendly homy atmosphere. People actually live here (2,000 ish of us)! LDA is not a conventionally pretty place (photos on the Tourist Office website are, of course, fairly flattering), but the resort has grown up in a rather higgledy-piggledy way, which is not hideous either. I can show you the real "French" cafes and restaurants ifyou like if you come.
The French only dislike all americans (and all english) in theory or en masse, but not individuals, so you shouldn't be worried about your welcome. Actually you'd be a bit of a novelty here as we don't get many american visitors! Mind you, they wouldn't know you weren't english as they can't usually distinguish the different accents anyway!
You don't need a car in resort (although it's 2Kms long) because you can either walk or get the free bus around (or ski). There are several Snowheads with apartments here if you like self-catering, or some nice hotels right on the piste if you want to be a bit more pampered.
Queues: We tend to have a biggish queue first thing in the morning at the main ways up the mountain, but there are other ways ...... The French are polite queuers - it's the Italians who don't understand the concept!!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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KYB,
Many can vouch for LDA and Easiski, and I'm one of them.
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FAQ
