 Poster: A snowHead
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| sparklies wrote: |
| Some people just have no concept of personal space or awareness of others. The .... |
Yeah, your average UK car driver for example, who will pass me on my bike with cm to spare without a thought. Whilst breaking the speed limit and using their phone. Not you guys, obviously.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| dobby wrote: |
| @cameronphillips2000, I'll agree that L2A is a marmite resort...probably, THE marmite resort. |
I've been to L2A several times and would happily go back. For what it's worth, I've been way more concerned about bottleneck pistes and other skier behaviour at Ischgl, St Anton, Alpe D'Huez and Val D'Isere, all of which seem to foster dangerous rookie and post-rookie bravado.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| philwig wrote: |
| sparklies wrote: |
| Some people just have no concept of personal space or awareness of others. The .... |
Yeah, your average UK car driver for example, who will pass me on my bike with cm to spare without a thought. Whilst breaking the speed limit and using their phone. Not you guys, obviously. |
Only if you are three abreast chatting away.
Not on phone or speeding, just trying to do 40 not 13.
Single file educated riders maybe 6-7 foot.
Went to the pub last Sunday, couldn't park as the local cyclists were having a ride, all parked in pub car park or yellow lines. Not one had a drink or a meal, but I suppose that was them being spatial/special.
They had not asked, just did what they fancied.
Also as a pedestrian I am often forced to dodge the red light pavement runners!
And in London red lights mean go if you are on a bike???!!?? No sympathy from me until more riders lose the chip and treat others with respect.
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@Norrin Radd, harsh....but fair.
If a cyclist wants to filter up the inside with 3 inches to spare and then hold me up they shouldn't be surprised when I decide to pass them with 3 inches to spare. Sauce for the goose and all that. I usually 'have an accident' with RLJs if I am on foot. You wouldn't believe how many times they crash face first into my elbow. 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| sparklies wrote: |
Some people just have no concept of personal space or awareness of others. The number of times people have whipped by me at high speed this week with inches to spare (when I've most definitely NOT been doing anything unpredictable or even going that slow) is terrifying. One was a bloody instructor.
Not to mention people going at high speed through piste junctions simply because they don't want to deal with a flat the other side. One hit my 8 year old daughter today (I managed to leap out the way), who was going at most 5mph, as was I. No damage done as she just boarded over the back of her skis and knocked her over, but it could have been so much worse. There was hardly anyone else around so I can only assume target fixation, or just obliviousness and recklessness. She didn't even stop, just picked up her board and cleared off. |
I've noticed that in lessons, the instructors are often not exactly teaching piste etiquette. To my mind it would be sensible to look up before setting off, especially if leading a large class, and this would then encourage the students to do this when out alone or with friends. But so few do this.
(I hope your daughter is ok after the incident and hasn't lost her confidence x)
I know it is generally the person behind's fault if they hit someone lower down but in January, I had a boarder decide to turn left across a very narrow bit of piste. He had his back to the piste when on my right and just decided to go to the left side without looking over his shoulder or making any kind of safety check. I had no where to go and ended up hitting him with a ski either side of his body and we both fell. He seemed ok and I had two badly twisted knees (luckily no real damage but just adding to the problems they already have)... I am now ridiculously nervous of other skiers/boarders. Its taken all my confidence away and I've barely skied this season due to it being busy and me being massively nervous about my knees and other people
Part of the ski lesson should be about etiquette on the piste. There should be more about speed, courtesy, distance etc visible in resorts (at lift queues?) to remind people.
It is a dangerous sport that can be mostly safe with care. But it needs all partakers to have more care
So so sad for the the people involved in the accident at L2A. And Claude - I hope your pisteur friend is ok (dealing with serious incidents can have a massive effect on those who help)
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@chaletgirl, I completely agree! One of my biggest issues is with people who don't check up the slope before heading off again (something I drill into mine) and I'm fairly sure it's a "rule". Instructors don't always, I agree, and it's very frustrating because they're not passing on that people should do this.
As you say I know technically the downhill skier always has priority but some sort of awareness of what is going on behind, especially if you're likely to be unpredictable, is just courtesy and safety. I don't trust other people on the slopes either, and with tricky slopes where I know I'm more likely to traverse, I tend to stop and wait until nobody is near before setting off. Mainly to simply reduce risk, because no matter who is ultimately to blame, an injury (or worse) can't be taken back by finger pointing later.
So sorry you ended up in that situation, I'm not surprised your confidence was knocked, mine would be too. My daughter didn't seem to mind (then again she has no sense of danger which is why I'm so strict about drilling in piste etiquette to all of them) but children falling over versus adults falling over is a very different matter.
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@sparklies, Glad your daughter was ok. Kids do seem to be much more resilient! My issue is that I absolutely have to be able to drive (for work) so just can't risk busting my knees again. I need to get fitter for next year and try and learn to bounce again!!! LOL
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| Norrin Radd wrote: |
| philwig wrote: |
| sparklies wrote: |
| Some people just have no concept of personal space or awareness of others. The .... |
Yeah, your average UK car driver for example, who will pass me on my bike with cm to spare without a thought. Whilst breaking the speed limit and using their phone. Not you guys, obviously. |
Only if you are three abreast chatting away.
Not on phone or speeding, just trying to do 40 not 13.
Single file educated riders maybe 6-7 foot.
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You appear to be saying that if a cyclist is riding in a manner in which you dissaprove it is acceptable to drive dangerously.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@sparklies, @chaletgirl, I also agree. I apply road safety on piste (+ swivel head is good exercise for neck) and also pull off to one side until crowds/speed merchants have passed. And calling out politely or singing loudly when passing on a narrow section helps I think.
There are plentiful opportunities to teach safety on the slopes whilst also teaching technique but perhaps it doesn't feature that much because whilst poor technique is obvious, poor attitude or lack of awareness/knowledge is not normally exhibited during lessons. And to compound the problem, sadly it seems a few instructors appear to feel they have special dispensation due to their status. I have to say that all my instructors have been exemplary and have warned about checking uphill before moving off.
Even so, this can only be part of an answer to the problem.
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| kditrj2d wrote: |
These accidents can happen anytime and anywhere. Last week I was doing an off-piste course in 3v. Having just skied down off-piste under the pylons next to Combe de Pylons (black), our group decided to ski down into 1850 for a coffee. On a very quiet and uncrowded run down Verdons (green), one of our number collided with another skier. Our man was knocked unconscious, sustaining broken bones in face and ribs. The other skier was more seriously hurt but the exact injuries are conjecture. This was on a green run FFS! It's massive, wide, straight, gentle grade and it was almost deserted, but still the two managed to collide. All it takes is two skiers doing wide turns 180 degrees out of phase with each other and sooner or later they come together as one traverses left
and the other to the right. I suspect that target fixation plays a part. Our skier was late middle age and not reckless. The other was a father out skiing with his young son, so unlikely to be speeding either... |
THIS!
I love big, wide high speed carving turns BUT recognise the inherent dangers and don't go there unless I have the piste to myself and keep checking up the hill as I
traverse, often letting the rest of the group to get to the bottom before I start or ask the rest of the group to give me some space as I am probably hitting 40mph traversing across the piste, give someone doing the
same but out of phase and you can get an 80mph head on collision. I have had some near ish misses when carving like this.
Carving skis and the type of turns that they encourage added to well groomed pistes and the accident is waiting to happen.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| kditrj2d wrote: |
| Carving skis and the type of turns that they encourage added to well groomed pistes and the accident is waiting to happen. |
Tragic accident and thoughts go out to all involved.
Is it possible the Ski Tracks app or similar, which are becoming very popular, are encouraging people to ski dangerously fast in order to post top max speeds and showboat against their mates?
I saw this first hand during recent trip where guys in my group of mixed abilities where sending screen shots of Ski Tracks max speed to their mates skiing at other resorts using a whatsapp group - this carried on the all week each time someone topped the best speed.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| tangowaggon wrote: |
I am probably hitting 40mph traversing across the piste, give someone doing the
same but out of phase and you can get an 80mph head on collision. . |
Nope, it doesn't work line that, the 2 speeds don't double to give a higher impact. Imagine you skied at 40mph into a brickwall........and at the same time the other skier also skied into the same wall from the opposite direction. You both hit the the wall at 40 mph and no higher, you cause the same damage as though you skied into each other. (i.e not combined to make an 80mph crash), I hope this makes sense and I do not recommend skiing into brickwalls. 
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A selfish, arrogant teenager nearly took out my ten-year old on Sunday. He whipped past her about six inches away, at around 40-50mph. We were perfectly stationary, completely visible (possibly the most visible location in the whole resort) and this little sh*t risked my kid's life because he wanted to grab some air.
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You know it makes sense.
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@king key, the closing speed would indeed be 80mph, but each skier comes to a halt from 40..0 over the distance of his nose.
I experienced something like this with my wife in Kitzbühel last year. Both of us were on a nearly empty valley run on the Fleck, both skiing very fast, when she suddenly decided to do a hockey stop! Guy skiing a few meters behind at the same speed couldn't avoid and went straight into her, resulting in two bodies flying over the piste... I was seeing dead people, but as it turned out he only had a broken nose and she only had a massive bruise all along her left side. Lucky, really really lucky!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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This is awful to read my condolences to his family and hope the injured skier makes a full recovery.
I agree with a lot of your posts, I see it more and more on the pistes. Last year in Ischgl in one week skiing I was taken out twice - once by a young lad out of control and the second by a snowboarder on a wide empty- ish red run and I was in front of him wearing bright blue jacket and green neon salopettes so not exactly hard to miss! He knocked me off my feet, I ended up bruised and with a broken ski pole, he was super apologetic but was wearing headphones and admitted he was not paying any attention to his surroundings. Also during the same week I had a near miss where some lad skied past me also at full race speed and missed me by inches.
| Quote: |
I definitely think busy runs should be monitored by ski patrol - who should confiscate lift tickets from offenders. The worst speeding idiots use fellow slope users as human slalom poles on busy runs...
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@mountainaddict I have skied a lot in Whistler and this is exactly what they do there, they have signs up saying how many lift passes they have confiscated this season through reckless and thoughtless skiing/boarding.
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Poster: A snowHead
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All - I appreciate the to-and-fro discussion which follows accidents, it is an important analysis of good and bad practice and helps build communal understanding - but I would also appreciate any further specific details from this accident - anyone local with more of the emerging details?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@king key, what you say is correct if all things are equal, however, if those two people impact then the likelihood is that one will come off worse than the other. There is still the energy of an 80mph impact to be shared between two bodies.
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| motyl wrote: |
There are plentiful opportunities to teach safety on the slopes whilst also teaching technique but perhaps it doesn't feature that much because whilst poor technique is obvious, poor attitude or lack of awareness/knowledge is not normally exhibited during lessons. And to compound the problem, sadly it seems a few instructors appear to feel they have special dispensation due to their status. I have to say that all my instructors have been exemplary and have warned about checking uphill before moving off.
Even so, this can only be part of an answer to the problem. |
Some instructors don't notice poor attitude or lack of awareness being exhibited as its those instructors who are teaching that but NOT reminding students to check and be aware. The 'snakes' of ski school emphasises to me the poor teaching. Each student is so focused on the person in front and following the line that none of them pays any attention to what is around them. Whilst understandable at beginner stage, this should surely be something that is addressed in higher groups? Instructors who just set out skiing with a load of students behind them without encouraging them to check above are irresponsible (but then I'm only looking on, I'm not an instructor, maybe there is a reason for this behaviour?)
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Ozboy wrote: |
| kditrj2d wrote: |
| Carving skis and the type of turns that they encourage added to well groomed pistes and the accident is waiting to happen. |
Tragic accident and thoughts go out to all involved.
Is it possible the Ski Tracks app or similar, which are becoming very popular, are encouraging people to ski dangerously fast in order to post top max speeds and showboat against their mates?
I saw this first hand during recent trip where guys in my group of mixed abilities where sending screen shots of Ski Tracks max speed to their mates skiing at other resorts using a whatsapp group - this carried on the all week each time someone topped the best speed. |
Totally. Some people only get pleasure from top speed whereas a good technique and less speed can be an awesome feeling too. (I do like fast as well but I'm picky about where and when!)
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Blacksheep, Hmmmm....sorry physics doesn't work like that. Mass doesn't double. Whether you hit a tree or a skier at the same speed from the opposite direction the impact to you will be the same ( assuming you and the other are of equal weight).
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| Ozboy wrote: |
| Is it possible the Ski Tracks app or similar, which are becoming very popular, are encouraging people to ski dangerously fast in order to post top max speeds and showboat against their mates? |
This has been mooted before and I think is a very real thing, supported by online videos. I was recently at the receiving end of the conversational opener "I did 100kph today" I wasn't sure how to respond - maybe "glad I wasn't there to witness it"? The very first time I used the app I found myself looking for opportunities to better the previous day - this activity lasted 2 days before I realised what I was doing! Now I like using the app as a record of where I've been.
@valais2, yes I would also be interested in more news about the accident, especially as something to learn from, though I'd hate the lesson to be not to go skiing.
To add to the above stories, my brother who is a steady occasional skier is currently recovering from surgery on a shattered collar bone, and having all the ribs broken down one side after someone slammed into him (and then disappeared) on an otherwise quiet weekday piste in America.
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| chaletgirl wrote: |
| Totally. Some people only get pleasure from top speed whereas a good technique and less speed can be an awesome feeling too. (I do like fast as well but I'm picky about where and when!) |
So true. Hubby and son had a couple of private lessons on our last ski trip. On the chair lift, the instructor started pointing out to my son those skiiers on the piste underneath who were not skiing but only sliding down the slope at high speed with limited control. It was scary how many of those type of skiiers there were! It was a useful lesson for my son to beware the difference between skiing with control and sliding down at speed with no control!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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When I was 18 a guy I skied with a lot who was in his early 20's took me to one side and explained that if I carried on skiing like I was (point skis down hill turn as little as possible) I was going to hurt someone badly. It was a great lesson to have and was certainly needed, since then I try to get the most out of each slope with rather than just trying to get each one over as quickly as possible... I wish a lot of other skiers could have the same lesson I had...
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| chaletgirl wrote: |
I've noticed that in lessons, the instructors are often not exactly teaching piste etiquette. To my mind it would be sensible to look up before setting off, especially if leading a large class, and this would then encourage the students to do this when out alone or with friends. But so few do this. |
I generally agree that not all instructors make a big enough thing of teaching safety and the ski-way code, I've complained about that on here before. But, I can say that I did a BASI L1 course in December and it was absolutely drummed in to do so - group safety was a paramount concern in the teach element of the course - especially checking up the slope before setting off.
| chaletgirl wrote: |
I know it is generally the person behind's fault if they hit someone lower down but in January, I had a boarder decide to turn left across a very narrow bit of piste. He had his back to the piste when on my right and just decided to go to the left side without looking over his shoulder or making any kind of safety check. I had no where to go and ended up hitting him with a ski either side of his body and we both fell. He seemed ok and I had two badly twisted knees (luckily no real damage but just adding to the problems they already have)... I am now ridiculously nervous of other skiers/boarders. Its taken all my confidence away and I've barely skied this season due to it being busy and me being massively nervous about my knees and other people
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The ski way code says this about overtaking:
| FIS Ski Way Code wrote: |
[FIS Rule]
A skier or snowboarder may overtake another skier or snowboarder above or below and to the right or to the left provided that he leaves enough space for the overtaken skier or snowboarder to make any voluntary or involuntary movement.
[additional commentary]
A skier or snowboarder who overtakes another is wholly responsible for completing that manoeuvre in such a way to cause no difficulty to the skier or snowboarder being overtaken. This responsibility rests with him until the overtaking manoeuvre has been completed. This rule applies even when overtaking a stationary skier or snowboarder.
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(emphasis mine)
So, in your case above perhaps the snowboarder checking may have prevented the accident - but it was your responsibility to avoid him. If you couldn't leave enough space for him to make any voluntary or involuntary movement then you should not have attempted to overtake him. Sorry to say, but from the description you've provided the accident does appear to be your fault.
I hope you manage to overcome your nerves, and get back to enjoying skiing.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| king key wrote: |
| Blacksheep, Hmmmm....sorry physics doesn't work like that. Mass doesn't double. Whether you hit a tree or a skier at the same speed from the opposite direction the impact to you will be the same ( assuming you and the other are of equal weight). |
Maybe my last line is not factually correct but I think we're actually agreeing? As I said if all things are equal but that's very unlikely. A 15 stone bloke hitting a 10 stone woman both doing 40mph then isn't it more likely the lighter person would come off worse?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@Dave of the Marmottes, def agree that in skiing merde does happen...my solution on piste is to generally stick to skiing the fall line and at the side of the piste especially on busy slopes....yes it may mean I'm schcarving and losing more energy by putting in the turns but at least I'm out of the way and not skiing erratically (which with space in front of us we can all be guilty of ie.several small arcs then a few larger ones etc)
Resort 'culture' also has a lot to do with it...I skied Obergurgl in Jan and never have I felt so safe on piste. Might have been the grey hair count but most if not all skiers had a level of competence and not once did I witness an accident...my day out in Solden was a different deal altogether...the Giggioch area was mental....too many skiers too many wannabees....my mate (who is a physically uber fit intermediate) got into trouble with his larger arc turns and had a mild accident within 10mins of his first blue run....OOC speed freek clipped him from behind from out of nowhere....could have been much worse than it was.....
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@Belch,
| Quote: |
Resort 'culture' also has a lot to do with it...I skied Obergurgl in Jan and never have I felt so safe on piste. Might have been the grey hair count but most if not all skiers had a level of competence and not once did I witness an accident...my day out in Solden was a different deal altogether.
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Totally agree with this, maybe I am getting old too, but love Obergurgl and its pace
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You know it makes sense.
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| Tubaski wrote: |
| chaletgirl wrote: |
I've noticed that in lessons, the instructors are often not exactly teaching piste etiquette. To my mind it would be sensible to look up before setting off, especially if leading a large class, and this would then encourage the students to do this when out alone or with friends. But so few do this. |
I generally agree that not all instructors make a big enough thing of teaching safety and the ski-way code, I've complained about that on here before. But, I can say that I did a BASI L1 course in December and it was absolutely drummed in to do so - group safety was a paramount concern in the teach element of the course - especially checking up the slope before setting off. |
Thats's good to know. TBF it is mainly French ski schools who are the worst to watch for this. And I know there are some awesome instructors about
| Tubaski wrote: |
| chaletgirl wrote: |
I know it is generally the person behind's fault if they hit someone lower down but in January, I had a boarder decide to turn left across a very narrow bit of piste. He had his back to the piste when on my right and just decided to go to the left side without looking over his shoulder or making any kind of safety check. I had no where to go and ended up hitting him with a ski either side of his body and we both fell. He seemed ok and I had two badly twisted knees (luckily no real damage but just adding to the problems they already have)... I am now ridiculously nervous of other skiers/boarders. Its taken all my confidence away and I've barely skied this season due to it being busy and me being massively nervous about my knees and other people
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The ski way code says this about overtaking:
| FIS Ski Way Code wrote: |
[FIS Rule]
A skier or snowboarder may overtake another skier or snowboarder above or below and to the right or to the left provided that he leaves enough space for the overtaken skier or snowboarder to make any voluntary or involuntary movement.
[additional commentary]
A skier or snowboarder who overtakes another is wholly responsible for completing that manoeuvre in such a way to cause no difficulty to the skier or snowboarder being overtaken. This responsibility rests with him until the overtaking manoeuvre has been completed. This rule applies even when overtaking a stationary skier or snowboarder.
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(emphasis mine)
So, in your case above perhaps the snowboarder checking may have prevented the accident - but it was your responsibility to avoid him. If you couldn't leave enough space for him to make any voluntary or involuntary movement then you should not have attempted to overtake him. Sorry to say, but from the description you've provided the accident does appear to be your fault.
I hope you manage to overcome your nerves, and get back to enjoying skiing. |
I totally accepted responsibility. However, for a boarder in a group on one side of a very narrow bit of piste to suddenly pull out across the piste was bad form in my view (almost like a parked car pulling out on you with no signal or checks and you hitting it). Like I say - I took full responsibility at the time and apologised a lot to him. But a simple shoulder check would have given me a hint of what he planned and him the chance to see me
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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The main problem with resort culture is that not enough people have exposure to what really good fast but skilful skiing is. I was talking recently to a friend who said that a 19 year old of his acquaintance has recently had his season pass suspended by ski patrol for some infringement and subsequent bad attitude. As a result he'd been forced to ski at another resort and had been somewhat humbled to find that he was by no means the best skier on the mountain and his hotshot antics just made him look stupid.
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Poster: A snowHead
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@chaletgirl, You always have to expect the worst in every situation. He may not have had the confidence to look away from his direction of travel, or may have been concentrating so hard on just getting down and in that moment felt that a turn was needed to reduce speed.
Always expect the worse and when overtaking boarder only ever overtake the way they are facing, especially on a narrow track.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@Dave of the Marmottes, may the good Lord save us from blue run heroes
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Ozboy wrote: |
| kditrj2d wrote: |
| Carving skis and the type of turns that they encourage added to well groomed pistes and the accident is waiting to happen. |
Tragic accident and thoughts go out to all involved.
Is it possible the Ski Tracks app or similar, which are becoming very popular, are encouraging people to ski dangerously fast in order to post top max speeds and showboat against their mates?
I saw this first hand during recent trip where guys in my group of mixed abilities where sending screen shots of Ski Tracks max speed to their mates skiing at other resorts using a whatsapp group - this carried on the all week each time someone topped the best speed. |
I stopped using the app 3 years ago as I felt myself trying to get new maximums.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Someone who gets off on seeing their max speed ping up on Ski Tracks and therefore ski's like a lunatic on a public piste are numpties anyhow and Darwin candidates in waiting. They would do stupid things with or without the app. I've got a speedo on my car that constantly tells me how fast I am going. I don't feel the need to try and beat the landspeed record.
I'd hate to see it in a way but maybe there needs to be some policing. Alternatively perhaps more warnings and education.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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In Soldeu at the end of the day they post pisters at busy intersections/areas with large slow signs. I have seen them stop people who are disregarding them, I haven't heard of the confiscating passes, but it certainly helps
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| chaletgirl wrote: |
| Tubaski wrote: |
| chaletgirl wrote: |
I've noticed that in lessons, the instructors are often not exactly teaching piste etiquette. To my mind it would be sensible to look up before setting off, especially if leading a large class, and this would then encourage the students to do this when out alone or with friends. But so few do this. |
I generally agree that not all instructors make a big enough thing of teaching safety and the ski-way code, I've complained about that on here before. But, I can say that I did a BASI L1 course in December and it was absolutely drummed in to do so - group safety was a paramount concern in the teach element of the course - especially checking up the slope before setting off. |
Thats's good to know. TBF it is mainly French ski schools who are the worst to watch for this. And I know there are some awesome instructors about
| Tubaski wrote: |
| chaletgirl wrote: |
I know it is generally the person behind's fault if they hit someone lower down but in January, I had a boarder decide to turn left across a very narrow bit of piste. He had his back to the piste when on my right and just decided to go to the left side without looking over his shoulder or making any kind of safety check. I had no where to go and ended up hitting him with a ski either side of his body and we both fell. He seemed ok and I had two badly twisted knees (luckily no real damage but just adding to the problems they already have)... I am now ridiculously nervous of other skiers/boarders. Its taken all my confidence away and I've barely skied this season due to it being busy and me being massively nervous about my knees and other people
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The ski way code says this about overtaking:
| FIS Ski Way Code wrote: |
[FIS Rule]
A skier or snowboarder may overtake another skier or snowboarder above or below and to the right or to the left provided that he leaves enough space for the overtaken skier or snowboarder to make any voluntary or involuntary movement.
[additional commentary]
A skier or snowboarder who overtakes another is wholly responsible for completing that manoeuvre in such a way to cause no difficulty to the skier or snowboarder being overtaken. This responsibility rests with him until the overtaking manoeuvre has been completed. This rule applies even when overtaking a stationary skier or snowboarder.
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(emphasis mine)
So, in your case above perhaps the snowboarder checking may have prevented the accident - but it was your responsibility to avoid him. If you couldn't leave enough space for him to make any voluntary or involuntary movement then you should not have attempted to overtake him. Sorry to say, but from the description you've provided the accident does appear to be your fault.
I hope you manage to overcome your nerves, and get back to enjoying skiing. |
I totally accepted responsibility. However, for a boarder in a group on one side of a very narrow bit of piste to suddenly pull out across the piste was bad form in my view (almost like a parked car pulling out on you with no signal or checks and you hitting it). Like I say - I took full responsibility at the time and apologised a lot to him. But a simple shoulder check would have given me a hint of what he planned and him the chance to see me |
This is probably the most common skier/boarder collision cause.
A boarder's vision (assuming he is left foot forward) is from approx the 10 o'clock to 5 o'clock positions at the extreme. If you are close to him and are in his 7 or 8 o'clock position, he has no way of seeing you. It is just the same as skiing very close directly behind one of your skiing friends in their 5 or 7 o'clock positions - you just wouldn't do it.
If on a board in this situation, I would always position myself on the left hand side of the narrow piste, to maximise my view of people in close proximity. That may well be what this boarder was doing. People will still ski very close behind me, or will still try and squeeze past on my blind side.
If you cannot see another skier or boarder's nose, he cannot see you and doesn't know you are there. It is therefore your responsibility to ensure you don't crash into him.
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@Tubaski, and others. The FIS Code is great (if anyone overtly even makes you aware of it - and I say overtly, in big letters, verbally as well) - BUT as I said in an earlier post, and with far too many horrendous memories of coming down various crowded, crudded-up and/or icy runs in, particularly, Mayrhofen & Hintertux, it just can't work in the real world and with real world people. (Never mind small Kinder...)
My particular bugbear with attention (which as a concept and problem I wholly agree with, regarding snowsports and roadusers of all kinds) is those people diligently practising their beautiful controlled (usually - though not always at all predictable in terms of direction or width of turn) turns right in the middle of the piste or areas of best condition (i.e. understandably avoiding crud or ice), uttterly focused on what they're doing or have to practice, utterly oblivious to anyone else around them and utterly unable to make any correctional or avoidance or speed change movement if they needed to, their fault or not. In an ideal world they're not in my way, I'm not in them and if I want to come down faster then I give them room and keep an eye on them. In the real world, see above; and the piste is more like a slalom course of many of them, not just the odd one.
Pistes are just becoming, in some places, stupidly dangerous by the mix of different abilities, purposes, desired speeds/turn types and users (boarders, bladers, skiers, etc). Poor conditions, narrow or flat bits etc just make it worse as well.
In an ideal world, it would be lovely to be able to section different areas or runs off for practice, speed or whatever. In the real world, it;s like being on a busy road and we all somehow have to live together, look out for Number 1 and try to to cause anyone else problems. And apologise when you unintentionally do.
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When I rule the world it will be mandatory for all skiers to spend at least a week on a board in order to appreciate movement patterns and blindspots etc. I'm still surprised that instructor organisations don't insist on it and allow "cop out" alternate disciplines instead that don't require new technical skills (not that it isn't valuable in its own right to appreciate challenges disabled skiers face).
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Could count the numbers of boarders on one hand in Ogurgl...!
The answer is respect...just like driving. I love to hoon about on the slopes when the need arises....but only when it's empty/safe to do so. I have empathy for others....I know what it's like to look after my kids who have had limbs broken skiing and the pain/stress/misery it brings (point - daughter is currently in hospital with spinal fractures due to efin horse)....attitude+ability=safe
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This:
| Quote: |
I would always position myself on the left hand side of the narrow piste, to maximise my view of people in close proximity.
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I do exactly the same. It's one of those things you learn from experience, but is good advice to anyone who would listen. It's a case of riding 'defensively'. I do similar when out on the bike, if i am riding 'middle of the lane' rather than tucked into the edge, it doesn't imply i am hogging the road - it implies I am aware the road is in poor potholed condition, and I am trying to avoid them or a dangerous evasive manoeuvre.
@chaletgirl, sorry to hear you had a tumble. A nervousness / suspicion of other slope users is a healthy thing and it's a shame if it is putting you off - I hope you can recover some confidence!. You haven't indicated if this was a narrow 'cat track' or a steeper run. If a cat track ( and apologies if this is already clear to you) bear in mind that these are 'awful' things for boarders... sketchy, icy, no defined slope or edge to ride on, and you should be ready to anticipate that a boarder may go 'crazy ivan' at any point.
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