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Fatal accident at Les Deux Alpes

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Good post @Richard_Sideways. We are all there to have fun and we should look out for each a bit more than sometimes happens.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
jabuzzard wrote:
On the other hand if you are driving down the motorway and someone changes into your lane in front of you taking up your safe stopping distance and then does an emergency stop, it is not your fault when you plough into the back of them. You need to leave a safe stopping distance in your lane only. It's the crash for cash scam, let me cut in front of you and slam the breaks on for no good reason.

Nope. If someone comes into the lane and halves your stopping distance you should immediately brake and pull back. Plus its not a good analogy for the ski slopes as they would be no financial gain and is just as likely to cause harm to the other party.


jabuzzard wrote:
Similarly she broke rule six of the FIS skiing code by stopping in the middle of a narrow piste without checking it was safe to do so at the bottom of a known chuse.

Rule 6 only says you should avoid doing so and that you should only do so if absolutely necessary. You cannot have the expectation it can never happen. What would you say if she had simply fallen.


jabuzzard wrote:
Just because you are behind (and I was not I was couple of metres to the side of her, her hockey stop took her across the piste in front of me) does not make it your fault.

So you were in close proximity, on a schuss going into a narrow section of piste? Sorry but it sounds like you misread the risks. In the situation as you describe I would be wary of the downhill skier falling or making a sudden turn.


jabuzzard wrote:
What she did was extremely reckless, broke the FIS skiing code, and consequently I will never except I was in any way to blame. These days had I been injured I would have a good case for suing her for reckless endangerment.

I think you should reconsider that line of thought for your future safety. Has others have said think not what she could have done for you but what you could do for yourself. She may have skied in an unnatural, not normal, unexpected way but as we say lots of people do. It's no good lying in hospital angry at them and thinking if it wasn't for them. Self preservation wins that the day.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Layne wrote:
jabuzzard wrote:
On the other hand if you are driving down the motorway and someone changes into your lane in front of you taking up your safe stopping distance and then does an emergency stop, it is not your fault when you plough into the back of them. You need to leave a safe stopping distance in your lane only. It's the crash for cash scam, let me cut in front of you and slam the breaks on for no good reason.

Nope. If someone comes into the lane and halves your stopping distance you should immediately brake and pull back. Plus its not a good analogy for the ski slopes as they would be no financial gain and is just as likely to cause harm to the other party.



You missed '..and then does an emergency stop'. No time to slow down and increase the distance if they do that!!

And braking is a good way to be shunted by the car too close behind. Better to just ease off the gas!
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 You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
martinm wrote:
And braking is a good way to be shunted by the car too close behind. Better to just ease off the gas!


Yep, it's by and large possible to drive on a motorway without needing to brake (as long as you're paying attention). Also I suspect that people seeing brake lights on a motorway are a cause of traffic jams and accidents.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
The road analogy has a big flaw. Most of us drive on the road to get from A to B. Most of proper fun / sports driving is (or at least should) be done off public roads.

Most of us ski because we enjoy it, not because we have to get somewhere. Hence: no lanes on pistes, no stoplights (ok, there are slow zones)... the rules therefore are simpler. And one of them is to give priority to the skier below. (although indeed there are equally valid rules about not starting without looking up and not rejoining pistes from blind spots).

jabuzzard is wrong. Had he/ she been the injured one and tried to claim, he/ she would have found this out quickly.

I have to admit I was surprised by a tricky maneuver in Solden last month. There was a lady stopped on the piste and I decided to pass behind her, about two yards away, as her skis were at an angle that would have made it impossible for her to ski backwards. However she had someone else stopped just below her, facing the other way, whom I hadn't seen, and who of course proceeded to start skiing without looking up just as I was about to pass.

Had I not been employing my "everyone is a potential suicide candidate" approach, I could have been in trouble. Fortunately, I was skiing in control and managed to avoid a collision (though a bit more narrowly than I would have ideally liked).

Would I have been in the right? Perhaps, perhaps not...but I'd rather ski more carefully and not find out.

I've said this before: I'm constantly amazed by the fact that nearly half the people ski faster than me on a blue run, then far fewer are faster on a red run, and even fewer on a black run, no matter how empty. Where are all those great skiërs?
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 You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
horizon wrote:
...nearly half the people ski faster than me on a blue run, then far fewer are faster on a red run, and even fewer on a black run, no matter how empty. Where are all those great skiërs?


Perfect description of the blue run hero, thrashes along on the easy runs imagining themselves as Bode Miller (usually with a bit of a plough going on, elbows out, hands down by the side, cr@pping all over the back of their skis), but strangely they're rarely sighted on anything remotely challenging. There's a pretty good chance they'll also have skitracks recording and at apres will be giving a full review of all the days runs to anyone unfortunate enough to be within earshot.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
... and with their phone in their hand to video their mate, so following them and paying little attention to everyone else on the slope Sad
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
@ecureuil, only if they don't already have a go-pro. Which they will.
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 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
On a stick...
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 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
martinm wrote:
Layne wrote:
jabuzzard wrote:
On the other hand if you are driving down the motorway and someone changes into your lane in front of you taking up your safe stopping distance and then does an emergency stop, it is not your fault when you plough into the back of them. You need to leave a safe stopping distance in your lane only. It's the crash for cash scam, let me cut in front of you and slam the breaks on for no good reason.

Nope. If someone comes into the lane and halves your stopping distance you should immediately brake and pull back. Plus its not a good analogy for the ski slopes as they would be no financial gain and is just as likely to cause harm to the other party.



You missed '..and then does an emergency stop'. No time to slow down and increase the distance if they do that!!

And braking is a good way to be shunted by the car too close behind. Better to just ease off the gas!

Unless they are driving like Lewis Hamilton in an F1 race there will be a period of time from when the car initiates the manoeuvre to when it is actually in the lane in order for you to make space. You can also anticipate their move by the flow of the traffic and their speed. Often, I will reduce speed slightly in anticipation of a car pulling out. It's not really rocket science. If they brake at the same time as pulling out you may have to brake also. The worst case can be when you are just reaching their rear bumper and they don't check the mirror before pulling out. Then a sharp blast on the horn may be necessary. Just as on very rare occasions I've audibly alerted another slope user because they impinging rapidly on my safe distance. I would have course at the same time being taking evasive action as I would do on piste. Once I am safely alongside the responsibility switches back to person who was previously in front to ensure they maintain a safe line.

I find it a odd that people are trying to think of the most bizarre movements of skiers and road users to justify the argument that someone downhill or in front can be at fault.


Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads on Fri 17-03-17 15:09; edited 1 time in total
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 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Layne wrote:
I find it a bizarre that people are trying to think of the most bizarre movements of skiers and road users to justify the argument that someone downhill or in front can be at fault.


I'm not - but you've twisted one poster's comment so that it means something different.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
martinm wrote:
Layne wrote:
I find it a bizarre that people are trying to think of the most bizarre movements of skiers and road users to justify the argument that someone downhill or in front can be at fault.


I'm not - but you've twisted one poster's comment so that it means something different.

I don't believe I did... it started off as:

On the other hand if you are driving down the motorway and someone changes into your lane in front of you taking up your safe stopping distance and then does an emergency stop, it is not your fault when you plough into the back of them. You need to leave a safe stopping distance in your lane only.

That is plainly incorrect. In fact that last sentence probably tells us a lot about the poster poor driving skills. I'm not having a go, I was like that until I had a motorway accident and did a driving course rather than be prosecuted. One of the things I learned on that course was the observation of everything around you and actually anticipating things rather than being reactionary. It was very enlightening. Why would you on a 3-lane motorway only be interested in what is going on in your lane. Why would you not react immediately someone even shows intention of moving into your lane. Or better still see that they are going faster than the car they are approaching so are likely to want to overtake.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
If you ride a motorbike regularly you would not be likely to survive uninjured unless you have very good anticipatory skills at avoiding the idiotic maneuvers going on around you. I ski in the same manner.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@Scarpa, @Layne, I do ride a motorbike, and I used to instruct learners in defensive riding. I rarely enjoy riding it these days because I'm too damn busy concentrating on having psychic powers of anticipation (not just other road users, animals and pedestrians but every other kind of slippery hazard) and 360 degree owl-like vision (and preferably IR sights at night). This is not news: I was taught it when I was learning to ride myself, circa early 1980s.
I agree that, sadly, one has to try to adopt the identical attitude on piste, especially as they, like roads, become busier and busier, filled with increasing varieties of users often with differing needs, skills and intentions, less well maintained and generally fuller of all kinds of hazards and distractions - and also, although not yet mentioned, in a snowdome, busy or otherwise. Self preservation is the real Rule 1; harm no-one else (at least intentionally, preferably not at all) ranking equally. Learn to swear in many languages... wink Learn to swear, skake head and move on - and live to swear another day Smile
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