 Poster: A snowHead
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it does beg the question of why you didnt check this out before booking ? and also why pick a resort with a limited number of restaurants and shops due to it being a very small resort ?narrows the options even more.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Vegan and vegetarian, old village words for 'he who cannot hunt or fish.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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As a veggie skiing in France I could not guarantee finding anything other than salad verte until the last few years so always skied with a power bars after a couple of bad experiences with muscles not working in the afternoon. Now it is ok. But vegan! As all above practically unheard of - or at least if you do find something I can't imagine it being substantive enough to sustain you to ski. So pack a snack, forget about seriously good food and SKI😄
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@king key, @Thornyhill, 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Not consuming any diary is probably very natural - we did not do so for most of our existence on this planet.
After all, it's rather odd that human adults consume what is essentially the baby food of another species...
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| stephen buck wrote: |
Not consuming any diary is probably very natural - we did not do so for most of our existence on this planet.
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Milk is very natural and we did do it for most of our existence. I e before formula milk.
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| stephen buck wrote: |
Not consuming any diary is probably very natural - we did not do so for most of our existence on this planet.
After all, it's rather odd that human adults consume what is essentially the baby food of another species... |
I like to call it 'cow juice'....... I guess 'cow squash' could also work. 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@Gaza, I'm not getting into a dispute as i'm the least preachy person there is and I hate confrontation. But watch Cowspiracy to see where I come from.
@NoDosh, I decided to remove animal products from my diet, because the footprint from animal agriculture is ridiculously high. I'm not that crazy to give up skiing. - reminds me of the argument my mum put forward that there was no point me eating healthily because I enjoyed a beer. 
@backhojo, my best friend is out there on a season so we wanted to visit her.
@Old Man Of Lech, I was a blooming good fly fisherman /shooter back in the day, however times change.
It looks like Huski is going to be the way forward. Going to order in advance and make sure we're stocked up.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I think if he's a vegan for reasons of environmental impact, then dairy would be considered worse than most meats (except maybe Beef).
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Large scale dairy is much worse than meat ethically - uk beef cows are generally raised with a large degree of freedom - only really housed in barns in lowland poorly draining areas. Intensively farmed dairy herds are often zero grazed, and bull calves don't get to live long at all given the very limited market for rose veal. Slightly improved by the use of sex selected semen and embryo transfer but a full herd replacement is not required every year.
If I were to alter my eating habits on ethical grounds, dairy (other than artisan produce where I knew the herd) would be the first to go...
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Poster: A snowHead
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Ah a vegan thread. Guaranteed to descend in to nonsense and bullshine.
Slacking though. STW forum would have tried to convert them back via the means of bacon in far fewer posts.
I'll shut up though on the farming side, since I grew up with fruit farming, not livestock.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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We've just been away with a friend who gave up meat for lent. He struggled! Good luck. It has improved, though, back in the 90's the veggie option of plat du jour had space on the plate where the meat has been taken off.
Reminds me of a shared chalet a while back... One family of veggies, another guy was a beef farmer!
The family looked quite upset at the prospect of sharing a table with a beef farmer, then realised the farm was organic.
With a tangible, hopeful, look of relief, the Mum asked him"Are you organic because of the ethics?"
"No", came the deadpan reply, "because of the cash!".
She looked like she was going to cry!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Randomsabreur wrote: |
Large scale dairy is much worse than meat ethically - uk beef cows are generally raised with a large degree of freedom - only really housed in barns in lowland poorly draining areas. Intensively farmed dairy herds are often zero grazed, and bull calves don't get to live long at all given the very limited market for rose veal. Slightly improved by the use of sex selected semen and embryo transfer but a full herd replacement is not required every year.
If I were to alter my eating habits on ethical grounds, dairy (other than artisan produce where I knew the herd) would be the first to go... |
But, UK dairy cows also have a large degree of freedom and AFAIK there is remarkably little intensive dairy farming here. Anyone know the figures? I also did some work with a Russian company who were setting up a huge intensive dairy operation and I came away pretty impressed. There was a pretty convincing argument that welfare standards are significantly higher in non-grazing cattle than in the UK model. Milk yields are often a good indicator of welfare and they were achieving yields of approximately 10 tons per annum compared with UK yields of around 7.5 tons. We certainly like to think of cows roaming the grassy meadows, but is there actually any evidence to suggest that they don't prefer to be inside in the warm and dry?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Old Man Of Lech wrote: |
| Vegan and vegetarian, old village words for 'he who cannot hunt or fish. |
lol, I agree, vegetarian should be easy enough to do in the mountains, but vegan is a whole different ballgame, I have to admit I think vegan is a bit over the top, so can understand most mountain places not being able to cater to them.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| GlasgowCyclops wrote: |
| stephen buck wrote: |
Not consuming any diary is probably very natural - we did not do so for most of our existence on this planet.
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Milk is very natural and we did do it for most of our existence. I e before formula milk. |
Only for Europeans, large parts of the world adult population can't digest lactose.
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@foxtrotzulu, the Uk, and Ireland have very little intensive dairy farming. I know here in Ireland most dairy is grass fed, is outside most of the day, where as beef can be housed if the weather gets very bad, . We don't allow growth hormones, and medication is used very sparingly, with an ill animal removed from the dairy process until the illness is cured, .
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| rjs wrote: |
| GlasgowCyclops wrote: |
| stephen buck wrote: |
Not consuming any diary is probably very natural - we did not do so for most of our existence on this planet.
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Milk is very natural and we did do it for most of our existence. I e before formula milk. |
Only for Europeans, large parts of the world adult population can't digest lactose. |
Exactly that. Adult mammals are not designed to digest milk, only infant mammals. Humans by default are unable to comfortably digest milk over a certain age. The ability to cope with milk in an adult diet is a genetic mutation that originated in Western Europe and the percentage of the worlds population that can do that is (slowly) diminishing.
Also calling it a natural product given the methods used to produce most of it is a stretch.
BTW we go through about a litre a day at our house.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Not to mention the cheese!
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| rjs wrote: |
| GlasgowCyclops wrote: |
| stephen buck wrote: |
Not consuming any diary is probably very natural - we did not do so for most of our existence on this planet.
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Milk is very natural and we did do it for most of our existence. I e before formula milk. |
Only for Europeans, large parts of the world adult population can't digest lactose. |
I know, I spend half my life in Asia. (Typing from Singapore)
The formula milk was a hint I was talking about breast feeding. Not for adults unless you are in Little Britain (that is a TV programme Stanton). the beta gal in yoghurt will help adults in that respect. However, back to vegans...... I don't get it .... but if people want to do it then fine by me.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| midgetbiker wrote: |
| rjs wrote: |
| GlasgowCyclops wrote: |
| stephen buck wrote: |
Not consuming any diary is probably very natural - we did not do so for most of our existence on this planet.
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Milk is very natural and we did do it for most of our existence. I e before formula milk. |
Only for Europeans, large parts of the world adult population can't digest lactose. |
Exactly that. Adult mammals are not designed to digest milk, only infant mammals. Humans by default are unable to comfortably digest milk over a certain age. The ability to cope with milk in an adult diet is a genetic mutation that originated in Western Europe and the percentage of the worlds population that can do that is (slowly) diminishing.
Also calling it a natural product given the methods used to produce most of it is a stretch.
BTW we go through about a litre a day at our house. |
It is a natural product. It comes out of boobs. I thought the formula milk might be a give away. Me calling it natural was in reply to someone.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@GlasgowCyclops, I don't think many babies make posts on social media, it is a fair guess that the OP is an adult.
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UK dairy is better than most but in the grounds I can't afford rose veal from Waitrose I feel guilty about the bull calves...
Also a Holstein Friesian dairy cow is bred to be emaciated - and if you feed them more they just make more milk rather than put on weight - a horse, dog or other animal in similar condition would be seized for welfare reasons or near death's door. I have some issues with this too!
The milk we drink is definitely better welfare than the milk from abroad that goes into the things we eat.
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@Dave of the Marmottes, The link you provided took me to this
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One contestant, an animal welfare scientist, shared research on cows’ preferences — where they want to spend their time — that was done by putting increasing amounts of weight on a door and seeing how much the bovine wanted access to certain places. “Turns out cows really prefer to be out at night and have a social life and sleep outdoors,” which allows them extra space and choice about whom to lie next to, Dubner says. Cows with free choice produce more milk than those forced to slumber indoors, which is the norm.
Two points about that: |
1. Do cows that 'slumber indoors' produce less milk than 'free range' cattle? This is the opposite of what I have read.
2. It sounds from the experiment that the cows knew that something was on the other side of that door. I.e. They were used to going out. If you take cows that are used to grazing in the fields and shut them in then these results make sense. However, would you get the same results from cows that have never grazed outside? We are talking about cows for whom it is about 10-20 generations since their ancestors grazed outside.
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Also calling it a natural product given the methods used to produce most of it is a stretch.
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Really? In the UK the cows eat grass, silage and some concentrates. They live and graze in the fields. The milk is chilled, collected by the dairies, pasteurised, homogenised and sold. Nothing else added or removed AFAIK. It's hard for a product to be much more natural than that. Arguably it's a lot more natural than almost any other food. Vegetables and fruit are grown in polytunnels or in fields which have been fertilised and sprayed with weedkiller/insecticide multiple times. Additional treatments may also happen after harvesting. Of all the foods we consume I suspect that milk has one of the lowest number of food miles too.
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Poster: A snowHead
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@Lost123, Apologies - When you posed your question I don't imagine you expected a debate upon the evils of farming or veganism. Such is the way of SnowHeads 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| foxtrotzulu wrote: |
@Dave of the Marmottes, The link you provided took me to this
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One contestant, an animal welfare scientist, shared research on cows’ preferences — where they want to spend their time — that was done by putting increasing amounts of weight on a door and seeing how much the bovine wanted access to certain places. “Turns out cows really prefer to be out at night and have a social life and sleep outdoors,” which allows them extra space and choice about whom to lie next to, Dubner says. Cows with free choice produce more milk than those forced to slumber indoors, which is the norm.
Two points about that: |
1. Do cows that 'slumber indoors' produce less milk than 'free range' cattle? This is the opposite of what I have read.
2. It sounds from the experiment that the cows knew that something was on the other side of that door. I.e. They were used to going out. If you take cows that are used to grazing in the fields and shut them in then these results make sense. However, would you get the same results from cows that have never grazed outside? We are talking about cows for whom it is about 10-20 generations since their ancestors grazed outside.
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IIRC from listening to the actual podcast (dated a couple of weeks ago or so if you are interested) the question being researched wasn't the difference between being indoor and free range but where when given a choice cows preferred to be and how strongly they felt that (measured by the weight on the door they had to push to go inside or outside). Food was provided indoors and I think the corollary of the conclusion that they preferred to go outside at night was they preferred to be indoors for ease of access to food during the day.
From 7.15 on the attached http://tmsidk.com/2017/02/perfection/
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@Dave of the Marmottes,
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the question being researched wasn't the difference between being indoor and free range but where when given a choice cows preferred to be
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Yes, but which cows were given the choice? Were they cows that had always been kept indoors or, as seems to be the case, cows that were used to pasture? To give a human equivalent, I imagine that your average New Yorker would feel far more comfortable sleeping indoors on the 25th floor, while a Masai warrior would hate that and would prefer to be under the stars. I'll give the podcast a proper listen.
Don't get me wrong, I'd much rather see cows in fields and drink grass-fed milk. But I wonder if that's just anthropomorphism.
@Randomsabreur,
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Also a Holstein Friesian dairy cow is bred to be emaciated - and if you feed them more they just make more milk rather than put on weight - a horse, dog or other animal in similar condition would be seized for welfare reasons or near death's door. I have some issues with this too!
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I'm not sure I'm with you here. I don't think I've ever seen a cow look emaciated. Just because some cows look angular doesn't mean they are under-weight. Is a stick insect underweight? Are all elephants obese?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Well we're here in SF this week so thought I'd do some on the spot research.
The two principle on the mountain restaurants are Maquise, which said, they would consider salad verte, and pomme frit as the only on menu choices. But they also said off menu that they would prep and serve legumes for a specific order.
Also Brevette, which only has salad verte as a choice and don't serve pomme frit. So not really an option for you I'd guess.
We like both restaurants above but acknowledge that Brevette is probably not going to serve much of interest to you being very cheese and meat orientated.
I'll add that I'm neither vegan our vegetarian, so my questions to the proprietors is not from such a position.
Hope that's of help.
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One of the bar type places has been happy to provide an odd selection of food for my Mrs (various dietary issues, not vegan). Opposite the ESF kiddie area - she likes to watch them !!
Can't remember the name though.
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Compare pictures of a Belgian Blue (extreme beef breed with double muscles) with a Belted Galloway (upland breed with slight beef bias) with a Jersey cow and a Holstein. Am hopeless at adding stuff like links or photos to posts but google will show the difference between breeds of cow. Something like the Belted Galloway would be normal.
Insects wouldn't be a good comparison to mammals but elephants can be fat or thin - thin ones have loose skin and almost no muscle over the pelvis, according to my memories of nature documentaries - usually when the rain is late. Holsteins and Belgian Blues are as much extremes of breeding as pugs and great danes!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@foxtrotzulu, I spent many of my childhood summers on a dairy farm. The cattle were free to roam between byre, barn and fields. I would get sent to look for them every morning and there didn't appear to be any pattern. Some inside, some outside. They just like to hang out in gangs.
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if you do find "Vegan food on the Piste" in Ste Foy or anywhere else, then I suggest you leave it there.
I'll get my coat...
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