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Crystal overbooked us in Arc1950 ten days before we fly out (now more of a trip report!)

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
I booked our family holiday (two adults, four children, all under ten including a toddler) with Crystal back in July in Les Arcs 1950 for week beginning March 11th. After a particularly stressful time at the moment, I was looking forward more than ever to go! There were a few issues over the childcare/ski lessons (I swear it said ski lessons were included when I booked the childcare, seems not, but to their credit they spotted and fixed it in an agreeable manner)

Then this morning, I get an email. Our three bedroom apartment has apparently been overbooked by Crystal's supplier. Quite why this has only come to light ten days before we depart, and not back in July, I have no bloody clue. More to the point, they can now only offer us a two bedroom apartment (and a refund of the difference, but I deliberately paid (a lot) more for the three bedroom for a reason!)

We're left with the choice of either us not getting the living area once the children have gone to bed (and I have a bad back and don't particularly fancy sitting on a bed for the entire evening with no access to the TV, kitchen, tables etc) or sleeping on a sofa bed ourselves, which again, with my bad back, is not even slightly acceptable. We could put two of the children to sleep in our room then move them out, but this runs a huge risk of waking them and all the crap that then follows of trying to put anxious children (one has ASD) in an unfamiliar environment back to sleep again.

According to the P&V website there is still a three bedroom apartment available, quite why their supplier could not book that given they screwed up I have no idea. Given we booked so early, why were we bumped? Doesn't seem fair, unless they failed to book anybody for that size apartment for that week.

I have emailed Crystal telling them all of this, but we apparently have to reply with our "decision" asap (the smaller apartment is only "reserved" for a day or so) and I have not yet heard back from them. There's no way we can cancel the whole holiday or go to another resort now, as we paid out for at least one lot of childcare plus private ski lessons directly.

Does this sort of thing happen often? This is our third time booking with them and aside from a few hiccups, they've mostly been very good (outstanding in some ways in resort in particular with childcare in Tignes) and I've often recommended them. After this, I certainly won't be, as my trust in them for literally pulling the rug out under our feet last minute has left me with a very bitter taste especially with the lack of decent response (I had one email saying "I'll look into it" in response to the above) after dropping such a massively inconvenient change on us last minute.

I guess we should be grateful we are at least still in the same resort but when you pay that kind of money 9 months in advance, you expect certain guarantees.

Next time we're definitely going to DIY. Sigh.


Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Wed 15-03-17 20:29; edited 1 time in total
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@sparklies, judging by the comments on Crystal's Facebook page, it seems to have happened rather a lot this year. I also can't see that it's acceptable given how long ago you booked. I can't offer any advice, but I really feel for you and hope you get it sorted.
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Phone them up. State you are making a "Formal complaint" and demand that they follow their complaint procedures. You will then need to wait for somebody to follow up with your formal complaint but that should only be a few hours. Given three bed apartment is showing up as available demand they procure that
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Just a thought, can you get it in writing from Arc 1950 that the 3-bed is available and go back to Crystal (ideally via FB/Twitter) with that info?
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Poor you... May not work with the kids etc, but perhaps ask for 2 smaller apartments, rather than one larger one. Just a thought...
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@sparklies, how about asking them to refund the cost of the accommodation, and book an apartment independently. That way you are still taking your flights, transfers and other options already booked with Crystal. Erna Low have a 4 bedroom apartment available in Prince des Cimes.
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Thanks all! I was worried I'd be told to stop grumbling but it really is a big issue for us as we can only manage to go as a family once a year so it's hugely anticipated!

I am going to have to call them tomorrow Sad Trouble is, there's nowhere private to go make calls at work easily and with something like this I would much rather have an "in writing" paper trail for obvious reasons. I don't want to be promised something verbally and then have no proof! I'm also rubbish on the phone and can't always work out what people are saying.

I've got the website screen as evidence there's an apartment available but I don't know if it's "real" - I assume it is but I'm taking nothing for granted these days! I should take a screenshot really. I was going to see what they said before hitting up Twitter (the only reason I got a Twitter account is for stuff like this, ha) but they haven't even said anything!!

Whilst I like the idea of two apartments next to each other, unless they had connecting doors (having never stayed in Arc1950 I have no idea on this) it wouldn't be feasible as the children are all too young to be abandoned in an apartment on their own, so we'd have to sleep separately. Yay, on a stupidly expensive holiday..!

Honestly, the reason people book with a tour operator is to reduce the hassle and have guarantees, but this experience has been the complete opposite!
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@HellsBells (x-posted) - that's not a bad idea. Thanks for finding that for me - I had a look on the official P&V page (one left) and booking.com (none) but couldn't think where else to try. If they can't book somewhere else, I wonder if that would work? That said, I'd need to have it in writing that it exists or we could end up there with nowhere to stay at all! And for all I know, Crystal may not be okay with having people in non-Crystal-booked accommodation.
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@sparklies, I am with you entirely, the reason I book so early (~ Jan 2016 for this coming April) is due to sleeping arrangements with children and child care.

Stating formal complaint works just as well via phone, and triggers a defined process which will get you through to somebody empowered to spend money to make it right. You won't get to speak to those people without uttering those magic words.
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sparklies wrote:
And for all I know, Crystal may not be okay with having people in non-Crystal-booked accommodation.


I don't see that's their business if they are the ones failing to provide you with your booked accommodation!
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@NickyJ, Exactly!! There's no such thing as last minute when you have to think about children and making sure everything is absolutely right. I did state in my email to Crystal that I'd hope we'd take priority over other customers because a) we booked so early and b) we have small children, which makes a reduction in accommodation size a far bigger hassle than older groups where everyone goes to bed late. And probably don't have back problems so they can face a sofa bed!

I will utter the magic words tomorrow. I did say it was unacceptable and told them to find a solution (bigger apartment, bump somebody else instead) but as you say, at this level I may not get very far.

@Gämsbock, very true! Although place bets now on "computer says no"..! They got confused enough over the childcare issue last week as we were doing something outside the box!
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@sparklies, before I became an apartment owner, we used Erna Low for several holidays in La Plagne, started after Crystal messed up our first one.
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Also if you are concerned about having a record, use speaker phone on the phone and record the conversation. Obviously tell them you are doing so.

As to doing it at work, can you not go sit in your car for a bit?
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@Hells Bells, thanks for the recommendation! We did La Plagne in 2013 and really enjoyed it and will probably want to go back one day!

@NickyJ, I'd need to use my mobile - I've never tried to record a conversation on my phone before, do you happen to know if it's possible off-hand? (obviously I can look it up if needs be!) Alas, the only option is literally outside as I get the train to work, which would make a speaker phone hard to hear too!
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Crystal will be recording the call for 'training and monitoring purposes' I expect, but they should tell you that if they are. You have every right to receive a transcript of it if you wish.
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@Hells Bells, That's good to know, thanks. I'll give them a call once I'm at work tomorrow if they don't get back to me before then which seems somewhat unlikely. And depending on what happens then, I guess I'll have to hit up Twitter. Sigh, didn't need all this!! My body needs a break from adrenaline in order to grow some back to use up skiing!!
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Hope you get it all sorted, I know how it feels when you really need a holiday and have spent ages planning it etc. I'll have a word with Son's GF later, she worked for Crystal in Les Arcs for a year, to see if she has any suggestions.
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On the face of it, this sounds disgusting from Crystal.

No doubt they will be on here shortly to give 'Their Version' in the time honoured snowHead style
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@endoman, Exactly!! Holidays are meant to be the thing to chill us out, not the opposite! And it's not like ski holidays are cheap, just to add to the stress.. That would be wonderful if you could have a chat, thank you! I guess you never know!

@red 27, It would be nice if they did! But I suspect they don't monitor much beyond Twitter now as they're so big!

@Hells Bells, I just did the maths (trying to make sense of Crystal's somewhat obfuscated invoice) as we have their "Ski Plus" package which lumps everything together pretty much, barring extras like childcare/ski school.

After taking off Crystal's prices for ski hire/lift pass from the all inclusive price, the total we're left with is the same price as the Erna Low apartment (which looks fabulous, admittedly!) But unfortunately the flights (which are charter with Titan) are also included in the all-in-one-price. So if they did manage to strip the accommodation out, I imagine we'd end up paying quite a hefty premium to book the Erna Low apartment - probably whatever the price of the flights are. That said, at this point I don't mind paying a bit extra so we can get that extra space we were expecting.. it just depends how much extra!
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Hope you get this sorted by Crystal to your satisfaction.

Quote:

the reason people book with a tour operator is to reduce the hassle and have guarantees, but this experience has been the complete opposite!


IME going with Crystal is always more stressful than DIYing (still go with them if it's ridiculously cheap). They've never messed us about to this level but just things like having to sit on a bus for 3 hours at the airport waiting for another flight when I could already be skiing if I'd had a hire car or not finding out what time we're being picked up for departure until late the night before are a PITA. On the plus side, in Austria it seems they're no longer allowed to walk about the bus trying to sell you stuff while it's moving. Hurrah.
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@sparklies, I have only recorded them using another recording device.
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I hope you get this sorted, I travel with children, and totally understand your plight,. Let us know how you get on.
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Hells Bells wrote:
@sparklies, how about asking them to refund the cost of the accommodation, and book an apartment independently. That way you are still taking your flights, transfers and other options already booked with Crystal. Erna Low have a 4 bedroom apartment available in Prince des Cimes.


This >
Tell then that you will mitigate the economic loss to you (that they are creating by breaching your contract)
by booking other similar available accommodation i.e. the equiv P&V apartment

you do not accept their reasons that there is not equivalent accommodation available and you intend to book it seperately and will expect them to settle the difference between that cost and the cost that you have paid;

that they have 24 hours to accept this or to sell you the flights, transfers, ski school (at cost plus admin ) as as a seperate package and you will arrange your own (this) accommodation separately.

When they quote that you accepted their T&Cs on booking tell then that thus was an unacceptable and overly onerous condition and given that the accommodation is clearly still available that is deceitful and misrepresentative of the true situation.

Good Luck , get serious but never angry!
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@mishmash, er, yeah, but in practice that involves the OP shelling out ££££ and then suing Crystal for recovery...

Not sure I'd fancy that under the circs
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red 27 wrote:
@mishmash, er, yeah, but in practice that involves the OP shelling out ££££ and then suing Crystal for recovery...

Not sure I'd fancy that under the circs


No, it states clearly that you are prepared to see Crystal make you good again on their contract with you (put you in your paid off accommodation ) when there are no conditions in that contract (unavailability of accommodation) that are breached - or if that they won't that

a) they remedy the accomodation breach `(they fly and transfer you to the accommodation and pay the accommodation from the surplus they hold for your non-existent accommodation)

or

b) they buy that accommodation directly themselves and put you in it

and all that in a timely fashion (i.e. they suggests 24 hours - what's good for 1 is good for the other).

So I would push it on a "you are lying: and " because of that I will seek a full remedy" and "We will probably fly and take our chances recovering from you as their are plenty of no-win no-fee guys who fancy this'. But yes, I see that generally you/one just wants to get on with a holiday/life etc without all this poo-poo
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@mishmash

The OP has to shell out to PV and then Crystal will just say "No" to your a) and to your b) and the OP will have to attempt recovery through the courts. If they had the appetite for that they wouldn't have asked advice on here.
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@sparklies, I really enjoyed your day trip report, and wish you weren't being mucked about. As above, Erna low are a great bet ( pm me if you want some senior mgmt emails) or alternatively a group of the independent apt owners have got together under arc1950direct.com. Or I can get you the email, of the PnV resort manager. Somewhere between the three they should be able to find you a 3 bed apt to take back to Crystal,.

I hate it when TOs drag my village through the mud like this, and if I can help, happy to do so.
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@swiftoid, yep - we've had small inconveniences before but nothing to this scale, and they've otherwise been good which is why I chose them a third time. But I think my luck has run out! I don't like uncertainty which is why I went through a tour operator despite the probable premium, but given I'll always have uncertainty in the future now, it'll be DIY from now on! (fully expecting a long wait on a bus at Chambery on the Saturday when we could be skiing too.. bleh)

Thanks @biddpyat!

@mishmash, Annoyingly the equivalent accommodation with Erna Low is the penthouse and an extra bedroom on top of what we booked, so not really equivalent. P&V had (at least earlier today) a 3 bed but the grade below ours.. that would still be satisfactory with a refund. @red 27 is right, no matter how right we are or likely to win, it's a lot of hassle (not to mention money hopefully temporarily out of pocket) that most people just haven't got the spare energy to deal with.

Their T&Cs pretty much state that we have the choice of rejecting the entire holiday as the only alternative to the poor quality of accommodation offered. Which would mean no ski holiday this year as trying to find somewhere with free childcare (not to mention sorting out things like the cattery, rebooking work holidays etc) at a reasonable price seems impossible. Hardly seems fair when we did nothing wrong and booked early.

I'll see what they say tomorrow morning before getting too assertive (but polite, obviously!) - there's still a chance they might come up with something but it seems unlikely.
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red 27 wrote:
@mishmash

The OP has to shell out to PV and then Crystal will just say "No" to your a) and to your b) and the OP will have to attempt recovery through the courts. If they had the appetite for that they wouldn't have asked advice on here.


A very pertinent view - but I don't believe that they have to shell out -they have to warn them that they will {do as above} if they don't make them good, with the caveats that their T&Cs don't stand if alt accommodation is available, and as per the Crystal "you have 24hrs" that "Crystal have 24hrs". NB I haven't read the T&Cs . Of course you need to sound as if you will follow through and will need to demonstrate evidentially that the accommodation is available .

But at this point you don't need too pay - just show the availability and the breach. IMVVVVHO
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sparklies wrote:
@swiftoid, yep - we've had small inconveniences before but nothing to this scale, and they've otherwise been good which is why I chose them a third time. But I think my luck has run out! I don't like uncertainty which is why I went through a tour operator despite the probable premium, but given I'll always have uncertainty in the future now, it'll be DIY from now on! (fully expecting a long wait on a bus at Chambery on the Saturday when we could be skiing too.. bleh)

Thanks @biddpyat!

@mishmash, Annoyingly the equivalent accommodation with Erna Low is the penthouse and an extra bedroom on top of what we booked, so not really equivalent. P&V had (at least earlier today) a 3 bed but the grade below ours.. that would still be satisfactory with a refund. @red 27 is right, no matter how right we are or likely to win, it's a lot of hassle (not to mention money hopefully temporarily out of pocket) that most people just haven't got the spare energy to deal with.

Their T&Cs pretty much state that we have the choice of rejecting the entire holiday as the only alternative to the poor quality of accommodation offered. Which would mean no ski holiday this year as trying to find somewhere with free childcare (not to mention sorting out things like the cattery, rebooking work holidays etc) at a reasonable price seems impossible. Hardly seems fair when we did nothing wrong and booked early.

I'll see what they say tomorrow morning before getting too assertive (but polite, obviously!) - there's still a chance they might come up with something but it seems unlikely.


x-post etc...


see what else is available anywhere close and see if you can work with them to take out the flights/transfer piece - look on the owners direct for arcs 1950 for e.g. ...
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@Arctic Roll, Thank you! I remember your help in getting us the reduced ski pass for the day. We had a lot of fun that day, and it's why we booked Les Arcs this time as we wanted to explore it better and bring along the rest of the family!

That's very kind of you to offer to help - I'll obviously update the thread with any developments (nothing worse than the OP disappearing but that's not my style!!) so I may well need it!
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@sparklies, a work colleague who booked at 1950 for this Easter over a year ago has just been told about "over booking" of the planned accommodation.

Seems Crystal have pulled the same trick with you both. Puzzled
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@sparklies, when you are complaining I found it helpful to make sure you reference using the before and how good they were and hence why you booked with again, blah de blah. I would personally refrain from mentioning your reluctance to book with them again Happy

Esprit go to Les Arcs - the odds of them having suitable rooms at this late stage is low but worth a call (they will normally hold a room for 48hrs... Though that might be when booking as far in advance as I do). They have all the childcare you need. That could give you an option in your back pocket should you need to cancel.

Best of luck
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About 6-7 years ago, we booked a week over New Year in Alpe d'Huez with Crystal and got called about 3 weeks before saying they had overbooked the hotel and we couldn't stay there. As you can imagine, availability for New Year for 5 people with 3 weeks notice was a bit limited and prices were terrible. They offered us a lower standard hotel in Les Menuires which was advertised for a similar amount to the price we paid for ADH. Not disparaging Les Menuires but the resort itself isn't quite the same as ADH and neither was the hotel

Can't remember what I did now but probably similar to what is being suggested regarding suggesting other options and being polite but firm over the phone. Compromise was that we paid a bit extra and got a "Finest" (hmm) chalet hotel in Courchevel 1850 for about 40% less than they were asking and it turned out to be quite a nice place to be at New Year!
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@mishmash, call their bluff has to be worth a shot. But yep - if I can prove availability (just took a screenshot here: https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipNRFt9pyhSYkmtg-v5--4xs7HYJ2DJtXKlM8vZdEj1QlzNF3kloWsf5W4-p1ohVMw?key=QjlqeG1sS3FLdGJoTUgwcE81RmdJNHhEZGsxeF9B ) then that has to be worth something. Interesting to note that the 3 room on P&V is the same price more or less as the 4 room penthouse on Erna Low! I'm quite happy to be flexible with them within reason, but we don't want to leave 1950 especially as we have lessons and childcare (for the youngest) booked separately and directly.

skimastaaah No way! Sounds like somebody has screwed up big time over there, heads should roll. Perhaps that's why they're taking so long in getting back to me as there's absolute chaos.

NickyJ Good tip. I'm always quick to praise good service (and a search through my history here will see me saying good things about Crystal which is why I don't feel so bad about coming here to complain either!) - I find being reasonable and polite gets so much further than anything else. After all, it's unlikely the person I'm dealing with is the one whose mistake it was, although it may well be in their power to fix it. We've looked at Esprit in the past but the problem is having four children - most of their holidays seem to expect 2-3 children at most! We had too many wink I will take a look though. I did look into flights - Easyjet from the more convenient-for-us Luton (we are booked through Stansted and Titan/charter) is coming in at £700 for all of us right now so a last minute emergency DIY may not be impossible. But stressful all the same. Thank you!

mmgg1988 Oh crikey, that sounds awful! You must have been so stressed. Having stayed in Les Menuires myself, it's fine as a functional holiday as you say, but it's no ADH from what I've heard of ADH! Like you, we feel we are treating ourselves with this holiday as we're only going once this year, and going for something extra nice, so to have to deal with the kind of messing about you'd expect to be at the cheaper end of the market is extremely frustrating. We're happy to pay a bit extra for an upgrade if there is one, I guess we'll see! I'm glad your holiday was salvaged anyway.
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You shouldn't expect this even at the cheaper end of the market. You should expect to get what you paid for.
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@mishmash, call their bluff has to be worth a shot. But yep - if I can prove availability (just took a screenshot here: https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipNRFt9pyhSYkmtg-v5--4xs7HYJ2DJtXKlM8vZdEj1QlzNF3kloWsf5W4-p1ohVMw?key=QjlqeG1sS3FLdGJoTUgwcE81RmdJNHhEZGsxeF9B ) then that has to be worth something. Interesting to note that the 3 room on P&V is the same price more or less as the 4 room penthouse on Erna Low! I'm quite happy to be flexible with them within reason, but we don't want to leave 1950 especially as we have lessons and childcare (for the youngest) booked separately and directly.

see you can get a holding confirmation email and then you have a watertight (like for like) argument. then you should smash in!
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I think this thread combined with the other one currently going on (about the TO leaving someone in an airport for 8 hours) have put me off TO's for life!
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sparklies wrote:
call their bluff has to be worth a shot.

Well I feel for you and I hope it works out. However, taking the compassionate hat off, from what I can tell this mid March is very very quiet for tour operators and I'd like to bet that they handed your apartment back to P&V or whoever and switched you into an apartment that they were committed to take. In other words, its unlikely to have been overbooked, that's probably a story. If that were true then I can't see them buying in another apartment, especially since the Ts&Cs both sides signed up to allows them to do exactly what they've done. I know its shoddy but they are a big company and quite used to complaints and threats of bad publicity etc. They simply don't care like owner operators do. With 10 days to go I suggest the assertive/polite route is first as you've said, and then, if no joy, you may as well become unhinged.

Have you called Ski Famille?
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Pruman wrote:
from what I can tell this mid March is very very quiet for tour operators

Not sure where you get this from. I'm looking for 11 March at the moment (hotel, not apartment, though) and there seems to be a lot less around this year. No discounts and mostly at small resorts.
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