 Poster: A snowHead
|
| HoneyBunny wrote: |
I've never liked the attitude that the general public should be expected to make up for employers paying people poor wages by handing out tips no matter what service they receive. I really hate the tipping culture in countries like America.
|
+1
@Pynch (et al), +lots for tipping etiquette being a right pain, especially when you don't agree with the concept in the first place.
@Old Man Of Lech, based on the currency I assume you worked in the US, in which case the custom is to tip and the salaries are set based on the expectation of very significant tips. That doesn't apply everywhere, so to generalise across continents seems pointless to me.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
@Dr John,
| Quote: |
not tipping chalet staff is tight
|
It can be, it might not be.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
| Norrin Radd wrote: |
| @HoneyBunny, +1, I started typing but felt he is not interested in opinions. |
+2
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
@Dr John, same with any job. My point is that tips should not be expected no matter what service is provided. A tip should a reward for being well looked after, not just a given.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
@Digger the dinosaur,
| Quote: |
Either accept that, and the cheap TO packages that come with it, and the tipping that comes with it, or pay for a luxury hotel where you'll probably end up tipping anyhow
|
I think that's a fair point actually. If the norm is to tip - as it is in the US - then, as a general rule, one should do so.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
@HoneyBunny, no, it isn't. One rule does not fit all circumstances. Chalet staff wages are kept artificially low due to many factors, the gap year adventure being a fairly large one. Paying somewhere even close a normal living wage would add a hundred or two to every chalet holiday.
| Digger the dinosaur wrote: |
| ...Either accept that, and the cheap TO packages that come with it, and the tipping that comes with it, or pay for a luxury hotel where you'll probably end up tipping anyhow. |
| WindOfChange wrote: |
| customers should be delighted to each give the staff 20 quid as by dint of the chalet staff being low paid it saves 150 per person off the price of their holiday |
Spot on both of you.
Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Thu 23-02-17 16:19; edited 3 times in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Tour Operators are able to save on the cost of providing ski holidays by not paying staff in France minimum wage of EUR 1400 pm ( The cost to the employer would actually be around 2700 as they have to pay social charges on wages and on perks such as accommodation and food, and pro rata holiday at the end of contract).
Take a 15 person chalet with 3 staff running on average occupancy over the whole season of 66%.
If currently the staff get approx EUR 600 pm, then over the course of a 16 week season they would need to make up 25.2k to pay the correct legal wages.
Thats about a grand and a half a week, or EUR 150 pp based on ave occupancy.
So in scheme of things, customers should be delighted to each give the staff 20 quid as by dint of the chalet staff being low paid it saves 150 per person off the price of their holiday, even if the chalet staff did not go the extra mile.
As to rewarding those who do go the extra mile - do something nice for them like getting their skis waxed, arrange a massage, a paragliding lesson or a park and pipe lesson.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Self catering it is then, bet I don't get a tip.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
I used to quite like chalet holidays. This thread gives me zero enthusiasm to sample their delights again.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Norrin Radd wrote: |
| Self catering it is then, bet I don't get a tip. |
That depends on how much you pay. 
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
@laundryman, +1 I am happy tipping , but quickly revising that position.
If I could do my job sitting on the beach in Mauritius with free accommodation , help myself to unused food and drink and do the bare minimum required I would be happy to take a serious pay cut.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
|
Indeed. But, rather than being forced to tip for poor service, I have voted with my feet.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| WindOfChange wrote: |
| customers should be delighted to each give the staff 20 quid as by dint of the chalet staff being low paid it saves 150 per person off the price of their holiday |
Hmm.... lets reverse that.
If the company is saving E150 per guest by underpaying it's staff, times on average 6 guests per staff member, that means that each chalet host is underpaid by E900 pound per week.
More realistically E15 (average tip for good service?) x6 guests = E90 per week underpaid. Previous poster stated E100 per week after rent? That leaves the host about E190 per week after rent is paid.
I'm not stating good or bad, just doing the math.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
You said 6 guests per staff member.
The figures above are for 66% occupancy of a 15 pax chalet (10 guests) which means 3.3recurring guests per staff member.
(And yes, you can get recurring guests before you ask  )
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
| Quote: |
| Tour Operators are able to save on the cost of providing ski holidays by not paying staff in France minimum wage of EUR 1400 pm |
You are using this as a justification for compulsory tipping?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
| Dr John wrote: |
| @HoneyBunny, in the specific case of chalet staff any increase to wages will be passed directly onto the customers, and you can be certain that that increase will be more than €20 per customer per week, also the staff will be taxed on any increase. The current system is a mutually beneficial arrangement. |
The current system is random and arbitary - as evidenced in this thread.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
@Dr John, the fact that there is this debate about tipping shows that it is a weird concept. Does that mean I don't tip? Of course not, I absolutely tip. But getting some nebulous amount together is always irritating.
I certainly don't begrudge the hosts a tip because I'm not tight, but I'd rather it was just set out more clearly so there wasn't this annoying vagueness ("did we leave her enough? She looked a bit hungover on that one morning... but was really smiley and nice all week and the food was pretty good really.").
I also don't like the fact that lots of people who advocate tipping see it as a substitute for being a decent guest, or keep pushing for some mythical 'extra service' when just doing the basics well is what is really required. Should the overall cost go up to improve wages? quite possibly.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
@Layne, hah, quite.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
@Layne, of course, but the system is understood by (in my experience) the vast majority of chalet guests and, by and large, works very well. This view is reinforced by many years of chalet holidays, not based on a few anonymous posts on an interwebs message board.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
@Dr John, but what does 'work well' mean?
It persists, but I'm not sure it that is the same as a good thing.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
@Pynch, I'm still trying to get my head round the mind-set of someone who spends £1000+ on a skiing holiday but begrudges the chalet staff a €20 tip. How much did they tip the waiting staff at the restaurant on the chalet staff night off? A bit of perspective is required.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| WindOfChange wrote: |
......
If currently the staff get approx EUR 600 pm, then over the course of a 16 week season they would need to make up 25.2k to pay the correct legal wages.
Thats about a grand and a half a week, or EUR 150 pp based on ave occupancy.
So in scheme of things, customers should be delighted to each give the staff 20 quid as by dint of the chalet staff being low paid it saves 150 per person off the price of their holiday, even if the chalet staff did not go the extra mile.... |
Looks like supporting the British TO chalet system is almost immoral.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@Dr John, I think that is a fair enough point. But my concern isn't so much about begrudging them a tip or making them lose out, its about that odd sense of obligation of 'have I tipped enough?' when they should perhaps just be paid more in the first place.
Equating some sort of monetary transaction with 'good manners' in this way just bugs me. I'd rather it was standardised. Also for restaurants.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
| Dr John wrote: |
| @Pynch, I'm still trying to get my head round the mind-set of someone who spends £1000+ on a skiing holiday but begrudges the chalet staff a €20 tip. How much did they tip the waiting staff at the restaurant on the chalet staff night off? A bit of perspective is required. |
Many people on this thread are talking about the principle, not the amount. And many who are questioning the principle are patently not questioning the amount (albeit an arbitrary one) which you mention. I think that, in your enthusiasm for chalet holidays, you yourself may be losing perspective or at least not reading everybody's posts carefully.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Dr John wrote: |
| @Layne, of course, but the system is understood by (in my experience) the vast majority of chalet guests and, by and large, works very well. This view is reinforced by many years of chalet holidays, not based on a few anonymous posts on an interwebs message board. |
Thanks for demeaning the board with your last comment. Are you a friend of Old man of Lech.
The OP asked:
| Quote: |
| We normally self cater but this year I have organised a group of 8 in a catered chalet for a short break. Its a nice chalet, not top of the range and not bottom either. Just wondering what the going rate is these days for tipping your chalet hosts at the end of the stay. |
Have we had an answer?
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
@Layne,
| Quote: |
Thanks for demeaning the board with your last comment
|
Indeed.
| Quote: |
Have we had an answer?
|
Looks like 20Euros per person gets a few votes.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
Drew Carey-Your approach to tipping is exactly the right one. My original comments re. non or minute tip amounts relate to situations where good service is given but not recognised.
Dave of the Marmottes-200 E between 20 is 10 each, pretty poor.
Hurtle-the example's given relate to 1 chalet with just myself & a chef in house. We both received $700 each + a very nice card with lots of good things said on them re. our service.
Dr John-bravo,
HoneyBunny -- YES I am, that is why I make good tips!
Digger the dinosaur-I second your view re. English customers generally. When I have suggested to fellow chalet guests we should tip 50e for each member of our respective parties I was looked at like I was an alien. I tipped the 2 girls in the Mountain Sun chalet 100e anyway. they were very good.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Hurtle wrote: |
| Looks like 20Euros per person gets a few votes. |
+1, if we are talking about mass market TO chalets. For upmarket private chalets charging 2-3 times the price (which might be where OMoL is/was based), increase roughly pro-rata.
But it does depend on the staff, and their attitude. If they are brilliant, and/or done their best with awkward guests, and/or interact well with the guests and generate a good atmosphere, they will probably get more. If they couldn't care less, or don't tidy up the common areas (never bothered about my room), or mess up the meals, or even give some people food poisoning (which I have known occasionally....), they will probably get less.
And for that reason I prefer tipping at the end of the week.
Slightly more tricky is when there has been a problem not caused by the chalet staff, e.g. with the travel arrangements or resort rep. I tend to think it is a bit unfair not to tip the chalet staff in those circumstances, but can understand those people who think it is the only way of showing some unhappiness with the TO. (On the - possibly dubious - basis that the unhappiness will get fed back, at least informally, via resort manager etc)
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
| Old Man Of Lech wrote: |
| Dave of the Marmottes-200 E between 20 is 10 each, pretty poor. |
Dave of the Marmottes please proceed to the tight self catering hovel along with Thornyhill. I am already in residence.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
@ecureuil,
| Quote: |
I tend to think it is a bit unfair not to tip the chalet staff in those circumstances
|
Absolutely
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
@Old Man Of Lech,
But that could be a palace or a bungalow.
 You called me an ar$e - by implication, if not directly - I call you an idiot.
Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Thu 23-02-17 19:02; edited 2 times in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
| Layne wrote: |
| Old Man Of Lech wrote: |
| Dave of the Marmottes-200 E between 20 is 10 each, pretty poor. |
Dave of the Marmottes please proceed to the tight self catering hovel along with Thornyhill. I am already in residence. |
At least it's not the low comprehension but very fancy tip funded palace Old Man Of Lech will be staying in.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
| Hurtle wrote: |
@Old Man Of Lech,
But that could be a palace or a bungalow.
You called me an ar$e - by implication, if not directly - I call you an idiot. |
Quite.
Maybe he should put "grumpy" in his name.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
mgrolf -Yes, this season in the US, that after 9 seasons working in European (3 different countries,3 TO's and 1 'Boutique' chalet company). Working in both chalet 'hotels' and catered chalets. I think I probably have a good insight into tipping across continents/countries.
WindOfChange- Yes you are right and the same people who object to tipping would probably be the first to scream if prices went up.
Layne-Where did you get COMPULSORY tipping from. Absolutely no one has suggested that, only that a tip for good service is welcome.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Dr John wrote: |
@HoneyBunny, no, it isn't. One rule does not fit all circumstances. Chalet staff wages are kept artificially low due to many factors, the gap year adventure being a fairly large one. Paying somewhere even close a normal living wage would add a hundred or two to every chalet holiday.
|
How many UK chalet guests are aware or even consider just how low the staff's wages are? I'm sure they know it's not a lot, but wouldn't think it was as low as £75 a week. Most would also presume that mum and dad are bunging them some extra cash. I'm not using this as an excuse for not tipping (just for the record I would, and have), just trying to explain why it may not even occur to a lot of guests. They pay an amount for a holiday, and don't expect to have to pay any more, it's just how people are. They also probably think the hosts are lucky, getting free food, lodging and lift pass, and getting to ski every day.
The simple point I'm making (again) is that a tip should be a reward for good service, not simply expected no matter what. In the vast majority of chalets, I would think a tip for the staff is well-deserved.
Anyway, I'm off to cook dinner and drink budget wine with the other miserable self-catering tightwads 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@Old Man Of Lech, I wasn't questioning your experience/insight, rather the use of the extreme (US) example to generalise across all and provide an example of what might be seen as normal.
I would head off to join the
| Layne wrote: |
| tight self catering hovel |
but unfortunately I enjoy being looked after on holiday so I'll have to find somewhere else to rest (and potentially tip generously, if the service befits it). 
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
HoneyBunny-----'They also probably think the hosts are lucky, getting free food, lodging and lift pass, and getting to ski every day.'
No No & no. That statement is completely false. Nothing staff receive are 'free'. They make up part of the remuneration package. As for skiing every day, also completely wrong. Change over days, no one gets to ski at all as a rule. Often operational needs mean staff do not always 'get to ski every day'. They are fortunate in being able to ski more often than the once or twice a year that most British skiers manage.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@Old Man Of Lech,
| Quote: |
Nothing staff receive are 'free'. They make up part of the remuneration package.
|
No $hit, Sherlock. I rest my previous case.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
