 Poster: A snowHead
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@Thornyhill, come on, you're slipping, you haven't picked up the spelling mistake. 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I was just fed up of some of the comments.
Not really sure why you consider the remarks 'less than constructive'?
I was merely trying to ascertain who these TO's were who allegedly say such things out of curiosity, and to avoid them if possible.
Remuneration for an average mid range chalet TO variable depending on a number of different factors which I don't propose to itemise.
But as an example, a single chalet host with up to 6 maybe 8 guests would probably receive about 75gbp per week. The other parts of the package would typically include:- transport to/from resort, 3 meals a day(not on day off), equipment hire, lift pass, season insurance.
I leave you to estimate how much you think that is worth. There will be many estimates depending on the viewpoint of those estimating.
Lets see what the range of views are shall we?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Old Man Of Lech wrote: |
Not really sure why you consider the remarks 'less than constructive'?
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You decided to call me a tight wad back bottom something etc. That doesn't really help me or anyone else understand the financial model.
I used to work in a bar. £100.00 a week for 40+ hours. That was roughly £100.00 a week more than I could have earned by not working in a bar....but I would make maybe an extra weeks wage every night with people tipping a quid for a round or giving me the rest of the kitty. I don't understand how a chalet full of people giving you a tenner each can be considered an insult.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Old man of Lech , would you not also get accomodation included ? & as someone else said the whole package amounts to quite a good deal especially if you get good tips , compared to people slogging away in England on a low wage paying a fortune in rent
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| Old Man Of Lech wrote: |
I leave you to estimate how much you think that is worth. There will be many estimates depending on the viewpoint of those estimating.
Lets see what the range of views are shall we? |
I have no idea what it is worth. I haven't been there and done that. You don't appear to want to put a figure on the worth of the package over a season but want us to put in an estimate?
OK. I'll estimate it is worth eleventy million quid. You can either accept that or prove me wrong 
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@Thornyhill, quite a rugby game, eh? 
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Close enough.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@achilles, We squandered so much. It should have been a bonus point and a bag of tries. It wasn't really that exciting after 20 minutes when the frog's legs gave up. I wish they would start the games later in the evening. 6N without beer is like.....erm...6N without beer 
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| Old Man Of Lech wrote: |
| Close enough. |
Be serious....
I have no idea what a chalet host/chef/waiter gets paid. I'm not asking for your tax return....just a rough average. But you need to include the perks and the value of the perks. Is that fair?
You never know. I might tip a bit more generously next time.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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You started the frivolity! Anyway I don't WANT you or anyone else to do anything. Please yourself. I'm off out to watch an open air music show now. Have a good day
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@Grumpy Old Man Of Lech, I'm always game for a laugh but you seem to have some issues around this. You have first hand experience. I am only guessing entirely randomly....in which case the tip will be based on me guessing entirely randomly.
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@Thornyhill, you think that a problem? Imagine how the Welsh feel
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You know it makes sense.
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@achilles, Do they tip well (ignoring all the sheep puns )
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@Thornyhill, you may ask suggestive questions. I couldn't possibly comment 
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Poster: A snowHead
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Lets make some assumptions based on UK employment law.
The average 18-20yo taking a job for a TO probably expects to work about 40hrs a week for the UK NMW of £5.55 less £42 for their accommodation, which amounts to £180 a week they couldn't live on that in a ski resort and go skiing most days, so let us assume the TO charges them £110 a week for food, equipment hire and lift pass etc. and they get £70 in their pocket. Overtime SHOULD be paid at the rate of an additional £5.50ph but .... Clearly the average TO worker is happy to work for that given that it equates to a working holiday. That doesn't excuse the TO or the customer not tipping. I have no idea what the contract might say if the employee doesn't want the employers offered subsidised meals etc.
Young people working in the UK as waitress/cleaner/barista for that level of pay would remain at home and give mum & dad whatever the parents generosity lets them get away with but they won't be moving out, renting a room and living comfortably.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I have never ever paid a tip to a chalet host, personall never felt the need.
Then again, I have never ever stayed in a catered chalet.
Love this thread, ho ho ho
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Quote: |
I would have gone for 'piqued' but I couldn't spell it
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Bingo!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| rungsp wrote: |
@Thornyhill, The Operators tell the staff in their interview
"Don't worry...you won't have to live off this, you should expect to get XXX in tips if you work hard"
The Operators knowingly underpay.
The staff knowingly accept underpayment, partly for the snow/experience etc, but partly because they are led to expect a certain amount of tips. |
From the Natives website:
How much? Pay varies by company and by job. While wages might not seem a lot, you should remember that companies will pay for your travel, accommodation, lift pass, ski equipment, insurance and much of your food. In fact once you are out there, it often comes down to vices - drinking, smoking and shopping! Remember as well that there are various ways to boost that income. If you want to save money from a ski season you can and you can certainly have a higher quality of life than in the UK. There have been many staff who've come home at the end of the season with a very decent amount of savings from less than five months' work.
No mention of tipping there - but there is another section on it which says:
However, thanks to the age-old custom of tipping, the best chalet staff can frequently earn their wage again in tips every week. Unfortunately there are no hard and fast rules as to what to do to guarantee maximum tips, but focus on offering little extras, and do your job well throughout the week, and you should be in the money.
So it's quite clear "the package" is what makes it work not the "the wages" and tips have no hard and fast rules. And if you want to booze it up or save some money you it can be done by getting tips or offering extra services.
| rungsp wrote: |
| I'm frankly amazed a a number of snowHeads whom I have always had a positive impression of, who are seemingly such stingy mean spirited tightwads....if I ever come on a Bash I hope I will have forgotten the who-is-who in this thread! |
Well, at least you've got to know us a little better. Fortunately for you I don't do bashes.
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This is an interesting thread, I have never been on a chalet holiday (and I can't imagine doing so) so it is a peek into another world. I would typically tip anyone giving me good service - other than if they are the owner of the business). When we stay in a hotel (family of 6) we would think €10/head/day is not much when shared across cleaning/waiting/reception staff is about average for good service. Seems to me lots of others would find that far too generous. I wonder of the chalet experience is more about squeezing the cost as low as possible, hence why the approach to tips is so different?
As a more general observation - based on experience of waiting and working in hotels part time in my student days - the most demanding (and unreasonable) punters generally also tip the least. They also get less good service but never seem to make the connection....! It always amazes me that people who have unreasonable expectations (i.e. expecting 5 star service for 1 star cost) and treat staff like skivvies are surprised that they get bad service.
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Very few guests seemed to be tipping the hotel staff in Austria.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Amazed at how 'cheap' some people are.
In a chalet where I am being served breakfast, afternoon tea and dinner, I would try and tip 10% of the cost of those meals if I'm happy. I'd fail at that I'm sure.
You've got the added fact they also clean up after you.
€10-€20 per person for that is a little embarrassing IMO.
As others have said, what sort of tip would you leave if that was all restaurant based...
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| Legend. wrote: |
| Amazed at how 'cheap' some people are. |
I can only afford to go skiing in the first place because I'm" cheap".
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Quote: |
clean your room, scrub your bog
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I prefer self catering but when I have stayed in a catered chalet I told them not to bother with this. I'd rather they went out skiing than wasted their time 'cleaning' a room that didn't need it. I don't care if my towels are folded nicely and my bed made to exacting company standards. In fact I'd prefer they weren't and 'my' space was left alone. And I wouldn't leave a bog anywhere in a state that anybody else seeing it felt it needed cleaning either.
Whilst I did also give a cash tip they seemed very grateful for the 'time' tip too.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| swiftoid wrote: |
| Quote: |
clean your room, scrub your bog
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I prefer self catering but when I have stayed in a catered chalet I told them not to bother with this. I'd rather they went out skiing than wasted their time 'cleaning' a room that didn't need it. I don't care if my towels are folded nicely and my bed made to exacting company standards. In fact I'd prefer they weren't and 'my' space was left alone. And I wouldn't leave a bog anywhere in a state that anybody else seeing it felt it needed cleaning either.
Whilst I did also give a cash tip they seemed very grateful for the 'time' tip too. |
A couple of years ago, I (+daughter) were in a chalet for 12 people. Earlier in the week, Crystal had fired the other member of staff, leaving one poor chap trying to cope on his own on transfer day. We arrived at 10 pm to find him in meltdown...he'd been up very early to see the previous guests off, then cleaned up (including all the en-suits) and made all beds and had sorted the evening meal. He had not had the proper training and when he applied, was pretty much shipped over immediately, as there was a shortage of staff.
The poor young fellow was ready to quit, so myself and one of the other guests talked him down, told him not to worry about our rooms and got the others also to agree as well. We offered to help with washing up, table laying etc. After a couple of days, Crystal found help from a quiet chalet in Les Arcs, with an older more experienced and better organized young fella and things got more back to normal.
Before we left, we got together as a group and all contributed to the tip.
Last edited by And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports. on Mon 27-02-17 23:13; edited 1 time in total
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| Legend. wrote: |
... In a chalet where I am being served breakfast, afternoon tea and dinner, I would try and tip 10% of the cost of those meals if I'm happy. I'd fail at that I'm sure.
You've got the added fact they also clean up after you.
€10-€20 per person for that is a little embarrassing IMO.
As others have said, what sort of tip would you leave if that was all restaurant based... |
It's not really the same... how much would you tip in a restaurant where they decided what to serve you? 
Anyone know the typical cost breakdown of a chalet holiday? Say between travel, accommodation, chalet staff, food, TO overheads (reps, resort managers, head office etc), and profit?
Chalet staff + food might be well under €200, so perhaps €20 is not that far out.
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You know it makes sense.
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@Old Fartbag,
That is very much in the spirit of chalet holidays. Of course it shouldn't be necessary but its supposed to be a bit like the atmosphere of being a guest in someones house and that extends to messing in a bit if something goes wrong.
When I worked in a chalet i certainly didn't expect guests to do anything but I always thought it was high class when people helped clear the table etc.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
| Pynch wrote: |
What about ski instructors? Our very good /competent instructor turned down a tip on the holiday just gone: "just doing my job", refreshing but confusing for me... is this just because its the first lesson had with ESF in a while |
Whole new can of invertebrates. In the US you'd have instructors calling you a cheapskate Brit behind your back if you didn't tip them, despite an almost certainly higher lesson price while in Franceyou might buy your instructor a drink or lunch but a tip is vulgar. Maybe because they regard themselves as professionals |
I live with a ski instructor (ESF) and he definitely doesn't find tips vulgar. I've always tipped ESF instructors, they don't get it very often which surprises me when some (not all obviously) make such an effort to look after and teach our children. They don't get paid a huge amount, the time they get to spending doing 'real' skiing is amazingly limited and right now in Les Gets they're all out in whizzing down rain/wet snow for 9 hours with a 30 minute lunch break.
ETA - Tips are never expected, rarely received, and sometimes declined however they're not considered vulgar.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| MeMyselfandI wrote: |
| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
| Pynch wrote: |
What about ski instructors? Our very good /competent instructor turned down a tip on the holiday just gone: "just doing my job", refreshing but confusing for me... is this just because its the first lesson had with ESF in a while |
Whole new can of invertebrates. In the US you'd have instructors calling you a cheapskate Brit behind your back if you didn't tip them, despite an almost certainly higher lesson price while in Franceyou might buy your instructor a drink or lunch but a tip is vulgar. Maybe because they regard themselves as professionals |
I live with a ski instructor (ESF) and he definitely doesn't find tips vulgar. I've always tipped ESF instructors, they don't get it very often which surprises me when some (not all obviously) make such an effort to look after and teach our children. They don't get paid a huge amount, the time they get to spending doing 'real' skiing is amazingly limited and right now in Les Gets they're all out in whizzing down rain/wet snow for 9 hours with a 30 minute lunch break.
ETA - Tips are never expected, rarely received, and sometimes declined however they're not considered vulgar. |
Couldn't you make the same argument about school teachers back home though? They work hard in a stressful environment, look after and teach our kids, put in extra hours and aren't particularly well paid. As far as I'm aware though, no-one ever dreams of tipping them. It certainly WOULD be considered vulgar and weird to slip your child's maths teacher a few tenners at parent's evening. Maybe a box of chocs at the end of term but no cash. But what's the difference in principle? Is it a matter of salary, but then how is anyone expected to know what any other person, such as a ski instructor earns in relation to say a school teaching assistant?
That's my problem with the whole tipping thing. There are certain jobs/professions where tipping is socially expected - waiters, taxi drivers, hair dressers, chalet hosts and ski instructors - and others where it is not - chefs, public bus drivers, shop assistants, air cabin crew, nurses, teachers etc. But there seems no logic to it as far as I can tell other than social convention. I'm happy to be put straight, but I've never really got it? 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Quote: |
But there seems no logic to it as far as I can tell other than social convention
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agreed. But taking account of social conventions generally makes life run more smoothly
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Anyone know what the food budget is for a Crystal chalet these days? 10% of that is probably not a lot.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| jedster wrote: |
| Quote: |
But there seems no logic to it as far as I can tell other than social convention
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agreed. But taking account of social conventions generally makes life run more smoothly |
...unless one gets them wrong, which is all too easy to do, with the 'rules' being so random.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Hells Bells wrote: |
| Anyone know what the food budget is for a Crystal chalet these days? 10% of that is probably not a lot. |
I wouldn't say the food budget is the determinant but rather the total cost. You would not calculate a restaurant tip based on the cost of ingredients, but rather the total cost of the meal which includes fixed as well as variable costs.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| zikomo wrote: |
| Hells Bells wrote: |
| Anyone know what the food budget is for a Crystal chalet these days? 10% of that is probably not a lot. |
I wouldn't say the food budget is the determinant but rather the total cost. You would not calculate a restaurant tip based on the cost of ingredients, but rather the total cost of the meal which includes fixed as well as variable costs. |
I've never understood the logic of this either. Why should your tip be a fixed percentage of the bill? If you go to a restaurant and order a couple of plates of chips and glasses of tap water the waiter has to work just as hard taking your order and serving you as they would if you'd ordered fillet steaks and an expensive bottle of wine. And yet the tip for the latter would be expected to be far more. None of it makes much sense when you think about it and yet if anyone dares question these daft conventions they're labelled as 'tight'.
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@SlipnSlide, yep.
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| MeMyselfandI wrote: |
| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
| Pynch wrote: |
What about ski instructors? Our very good /competent instructor turned down a tip on the holiday just gone: "just doing my job", refreshing but confusing for me... is this just because its the first lesson had with ESF in a while |
Whole new can of invertebrates. In the US you'd have instructors calling you a cheapskate Brit behind your back if you didn't tip them, despite an almost certainly higher lesson price while in Franceyou might buy your instructor a drink or lunch but a tip is vulgar. Maybe because they regard themselves as professionals |
I live with a ski instructor (ESF) and he definitely doesn't find tips vulgar. I've always tipped ESF instructors, they don't get it very often which surprises me when some (not all obviously) make such an effort to look after and teach our children. They don't get paid a huge amount, the time they get to spending doing 'real' skiing is amazingly limited and right now in Les Gets they're all out in whizzing down rain/wet snow for 9 hours with a 30 minute lunch break.
ETA - Tips are never expected, rarely received, and sometimes declined however they're not considered vulgar. |
I recently tipped the young ESF instructor who had done 6 1hr private lessons with my young daughters over the week. First time out for them. He was clearly surprised but pleased. He deserved a very generous tip because he was absolutely awesome.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| skilass wrote: |
| Very few guests seemed to be tipping the hotel staff in Austria. |
Those staff will be taking home around €1200 a month after tax though
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@clarky999, pro rata.
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