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What do I need to do to improve?

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Hi,

So I went snowboarding for the first time a couple of weeks ago in Pas de la Casa in Andorra and this is a video my mate did of me going down a red onto a blue at the end, can anyone offer me any advice on what I need to do to improve??
This was on my 6th day

http://youtube.com/v/Mgl-D6VKbxM

Thanks
snow conditions
 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
That's cool - can really see what's going on from that video. Did you take any instruction in those 6 days?

First thing I'd look at is your lower body. Imagine squatting as low as you can go on your board - that's a 0. Then stand ridiculously tall, locking out every joint. That's a 10. You currently ride around between an 8 and a 9 - there's not much flexion going on. As a result your centre of gravity is high and your balance suffers. You're also pretty locked into that 8-9 height - you're not very dynamic and there's no suspension available for absorbing the bumps - this is why you fell at around 2 minutes.

I'd want you riding between a 7-8 for normal piste, but equally with the ability to flex your lower body to vary that anywhere from a 4 to an 8 as required. A few good exercises are traverses while going as tall and as deep as you can in your stance, riding around silly low to get a feel for being lower and traverses with little hops off both edges to make sure that you're allowing your suspension to work on landing - you'll fall if you don't!

Second thing I'd look at is your heel to toe turn. Check out around 3 minutes in - going toes to heels is a lot more relaxed with a lot less flapping of the arms and upper body than heels to toes - in fact you fall a couple of times in the bit of vid I watched going onto your toes.

I'd be concerned about your inputs - how are you turning the board? I dunno what you've been taught, but go back to that, basic turns and half turns (garlands) on easier slopes, and focus on being soft in your ankles and legs as you come onto the toes to absorb those shocks. So the Brits and Kiwis would teach foot steering, the Canadians knees & hips I think, the French a massive windmilling pointing front arm to get across the board and onto the new edge. Whatever it is you're doing, practise just working on that, so that you can initiate that heel to toe turn ONLY using that technique in one, single, continuous, gradual, clean motion.

So let's say you've been taught by a Brit, they'll want you to traverse on the heels, then push down on the front toes and just hold them there, being patient until the board comes round, then engaging the back toes, then holding that looking round the turn with your head - not trying to force the turn round with your upper body. Garlands are awesome - they really show if you can make the board turn using e.g. just your feet, or if you're having to use your whole body to force the turn which isn't working so well at the moment.

Looks really nice for a first time riding - did you enjoy yourself? Loads of good stuff - pretty solid posture, eyes up, confidence, good control of speed, good balance of weight between the 2 feet, well co-ordinated outfit - loads to build on Smile
snow report
 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well done mate, really good for a weeks boarding.

One thing you want to watch is near the beginning of the vid you're kicking up snow with the 'wrong' edge, which can be fatal and the source of a great many falls. You'll notice that when you correctly transition to your toe edge, the heel edge is still taking snow.

You need to be more positive on you edges, snap them don't dwell so much. It becomes easier to do when you stop, as is completely understandable when beginning, trying to turn too early across the slope instead of pointing more down the slope.

Otherwise just be more flexible and load/unload the board as you turn, going in more on your front foot and rolling/popping the board out a little in front as you come through the turn with more weight on your back foot.

But for a week mate, pretty shiney wink
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Many thanks for your tips and comments

I had a 3 hour lesson at the snow dome before I went, since then I have just been doing it myself, asking my friends who are more experienced and watching the instructors whenever I was on the ski lifts, the main thing I noticed from them was, as you said, that they were always squatting down more than me.
In the lesson we didnt get on to turns so I havent really learnt a single method, I think that is a big part of my problem as I have read guides and watched videos on youtube and they all seem to say different methods. When I was at the snowdome the instructor told me to have my arms and hands at my side at all times and to do not the point with your arm method.

I did practice with the pushing the toes down, (called toe peddling or steering??) and I could do that at slow speeds and I remember being amazed how well it worked

When I was going to heel to toe I generally press my front foot toes down and lift the heel and try and lean forward by sticking my belly out, but often forget that part, I also read you can lean forward over your front foot. This is the turn I struggle with, it took my quite a while before I could even do this turn at all, I think it is because I have to face straight down the mountain and then lean forward I think I am going to fall over more or just go straight down the mountain, I think its just a physiological thing for me

Then toe to heel I just squat down while lifting my front toes, and that just seems to whip the board round a bit too quickly and I swing the board round too much and I end up braking

I did find that at times I would kill my speed too much then try and do a turn and just fall over because I was going so slow. Towards the end of the holiday I got more confidence going faster and managed to go in a straight line or slightly on my heel fairly well and even managed to overtake my more experienced skiing friend

I'll have a google, but can you recommend any good videos or guides so I can get all the relevant information for the peddling technique?

I'm going again in 2 weeks so I want to learn as much as I can before I go again

Overall yeah I liked it apart from one really really bad morning, but the following afternoon was great after I had a beer and break to calm down after being so frustrated. The only major downside was I managed to twist my ankle on the 3rd day just as I was feeling confident on the reds and ready to go over the mountain. I later found out my boots were coming undone during the day so I think that contributed to twisting my ankle.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
What do you mean by "load/unload the board as you turn, going in more on your front foot and rolling/popping the board out a little in front as you come through the turn"

specifically the load/unload and rolling/popping terminology
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@fredbob, Get a copy of Go Snowboard by Neil Mcnab. Everything you need to start you off on foot steering. Includes a DVD.

Looks out of print but worth getting a second hand copy. Try here
http://www.waterstonesmarketplace.com/search/books/isbn/9781405315746?invid=13482426396&qrating=3&isbn=9781405315746&mtype=B&qsort=&page=1
snow conditions
 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Thanks for that, I've heard that mentioned before and I've read one of his articles on his website about turning correctly

Thanks for the link, I've found a few on ebay and amazon as well so checking if they all have the DVD with them. I've searched everywhere trying to find it in downloadable format but no joy, I'm going snowboarding again in just 2 weeks so really want to have a good read before I go
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
fredbob wrote:
What do you mean by "load/unload the board as you turn, going in more on your front foot and rolling/popping the board out a little in front as you come through the turn"

specifically the load/unload and rolling/popping terminology


Discussed here at length, most of the way down the thread. Maybe stevomcd puts it in terms easier to understand, it can be difficult to convey what is, effectively, a seamless fluid transition into individual steps and make it understandable.

If it feels like individual steps, you're not doing it right, but you have to start somewhere. That's why I didn't try to 'over-explain' it, as I've always thought just mucking about on the board, popping up and down, moving your weight around to feel how the board reacts, in the formative stages of learning, can help some people better than rigid instruction, as it's often taught.

I'd be more concerned about being 'on the wrong edge' though, at your stage. This single error is, IMO, the major reason people often give up ....... knowing what edge to be on is king.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
fredbob wrote:

In the lesson we didnt get on to turns so I havent really learnt a single method, I think that is a big part of my problem as I have read guides and watched videos on youtube and they all seem to say different methods. When I was at the snowdome the instructor told me to have my arms and hands at my side at all times and to do not the point with your arm method.

I did practice with the pushing the toes down, (called toe peddling or steering??) and I could do that at slow speeds and I remember being amazed how well it worked

When I was going to heel to toe I generally press my front foot toes down and lift the heel and try and lean forward by sticking my belly out, but often forget that part, I also read you can lean forward over your front foot. This is the turn I struggle with, it took my quite a while before I could even do this turn at all, I think it is because I have to face straight down the mountain and then lean forward I think I am going to fall over more or just go straight down the mountain, I think its just a physiological thing for me

Then toe to heel I just squat down while lifting my front toes, and that just seems to whip the board round a bit too quickly and I swing the board round too much and I end up braking


Cool - I'd carry on like this, all sounds good to me. The only thing is, this isn't what you're doing sometimes - especially when it gets steeper going from heels to toes - you're using all kinds of other inputs (twisting, upper body, arms) to try and force that board round. Best example is at about 3m into that vid when your mate twists his go-pro round, you're doing a lot of flailing. If you've got the patience, I'd spend some time on some heel side garlands and just practise only using that foot peddling technique:


http://youtube.com/v/PAF8LjLlNU4

he's not the best but can you see how still he is? If you can practise that control to start that turn just using effective inputs (foot pedalling) then you're going to be onto a winner.

Getting lower will help your pedalling too - more pressure on the edge and more edge angle due to more flexion in the ankle.

Good luck!
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 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Yeah you're right on the heel to toe turn I do kind of throw my body around to do the turn, I think its cos I'm scared of the board pointing straight down the mountain for too long so I guess I just need more confidence in being able to complete the turn properly, so practising those garlands is going to be a great idea.

I think I watched that video and a couple of others about garlands last night, yeah he is soooooooo still compared to me Smile
I'm going to watch them all again

One more question, when I'm traversing across the slope on my heel edge should I squat down a little bit? Also when I'm traversing the slope on my toe edge should I be stood up more with my belly pushed out?

When I'm doing a heel turn I know to squat down and on a toe turn to stand up push my belly out but should I be carrying these positions on my traverse to the next turn more?

Thanks again
ski holidays
 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
@fredbob, Not sure I like your description of 'push my belly out'. You need to apply pressure to the toe edge through your shins pushing onto your boots. Your body should be stacked over the board.
Also try not to traverse between turns. When one turn finishes start the next one. Then you will find that the board is still flexed at the end of the turn and it will spring you into the next one.
ski holidays
 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
For a toe turn should my upper body be straight up?

The reason I said that was because when I had the lesson and wa going down the slope on my toe edge the instructor said to push my belly out and then my friend said something similar when he does a toe turn.

Also on a heel turn you squat down so I was under the impression for a toe turn you had to do something similar, but the opposite if you see what I mean, with my body? Does that make sense?

Should I be able to do a complete toe turn just by using my feet and peddling?

and yes no traversing makes a lot of sense as that is what I always see on the videos from instructors, theyre always turning.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
@fredbob, For a toe turn your body should be over the board but that does not mean your legs are straight.
At the start of the turn you apply pressure to the toe edge with your front leg by bending your leg at the knee and driving the knee over your toe. You will feel pressure on your shins when you do this.
Do not try and apply pressure just by using your toes.
A toe side carve with a bit of speed on is just sublime.
Have a look at some Ryan Knapton videos on YouTube. You will see exactly what you need to aim at .
Google Knapton how to really really carve
latest report
 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
I've watched the Knapton carve videos, they're good, although thats a bit advanced for me its nice to see where I need to get to, and as everyone has said his upper body is pretty still, no twisting or flailing arms etc. I didnt realise you could tilt the board as much as he does, I'm going to watch them a few more times

On his carving video no 2 -
http://youtube.com/v/3ua4VRvrxGY he says the high back of the binding should be tilted forward (forward lean) to make sure your knees are bent, is this something that is suitable for a beginner?
snow report
 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@fredbob, Definitely you need forward lean on your highjacks. Try setting them so they are 70 degrees from the horizontal I.e a forward lean of 20 degrees from the vertical. That's what I set mine to when I started out some years ago.
snow conditions
 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Thanks, I'll try that when I go again in a couple of weeks.

Thanks to everyone for their patience and replies, greatly appreciated!!! Very Happy Very Happy
latest report
 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@fredbob, Let us know how you get on. Do not be afraid to play around with your settings.

Try different stance width, angles and highbacks forward lean. Jot them down as you change them so you can track the changes. When you are happy write it down somewhere safe so it becomes your baseline for future trips.

Maybe buy a bullet tool so you can change your bindings where you like rather than at a lift station.

You should also rotate the highbacks so that they are parallel to the heel edge even though the binding is at an angle to the board.
snow conditions
 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
fredbob wrote:
For a toe turn should my upper body be straight up?


For both turns your upper body wants to be straight - try to keep your flexion to your lower body as much as you can, and try not to flex at the waist.

fredbob wrote:
Also on a heel turn you squat down so I was under the impression for a toe turn you had to do something similar, but the opposite if you see what I mean, with my body? Does that make sense?


You shouldn't be any higher or lower on your toes than your heels - same height. If you're squatting down on your heels that's cool - that'll lower you - but make sure you're also low on your toes like I said in my first post.

fredbob wrote:
Should I be able to do a complete toe turn just by using my feet and peddling?


Yup. That's not to say that that's perfect technique, but it's not a bad place to start. The point of practising and isolating that movement is so that it becomes the primary input, and then when you add a bit of knee, hip, shoulder etc it adds to the turn, rather than doing what you're doing at the moment.

fredbob wrote:
and yes no traversing makes a lot of sense as that is what I always see on the videos from instructors, theyre always turning.


Don't worry about this too much - it's something that'll come naturally as you ride more. Until you build muscle memory you need to think Smile
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An hour or two of quality instruction on the 2nd morning of your next trip would be worth all the words and video clips on the internet. I've recently seen it with a mate of mine who's not a natural athlete but has been Mr Sensible when it comes to lessons. The progress he's made in three trips has been incredible.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Not watched your video (bit short on time, may watch later) so this is just general advice...and advice I've given a few times to similar posts and people in your position.

You need to ride with better riders than yourself and your riding will develop as you yearn to ride like others. It sounds like you already watch others from the lifts and things but head down the freestyle nights at the domes and watch the good riders.

Secondly if your going to have a lesson back here, go to a dryslope. You may come off thinking you've taken a backwards step but when you go back to a fridge or mountain all those things you were learning on the dryslope will feel so much easier and it'll all click into place.

You mentioned falling when trying to turn at low speed. Practice low speed turns cause this is where technique is critical, at speed you can get away with sloppy turns. If you can ride at low speed your overall confidence and riding will benefit and you'll look smoother and stylish!

Most of all enjoy!!!
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The best bit of advice I have been given over the years to improve my snowboarding technique and leading with the front shoulder rather than flailing around with my right (rear) hand was to put my right hand behind my back. The improvement was instant.

Also RE pushing your belly out on toe edge, excuse my pendantry, but it's more of a pelvic thrust you want to be doing!
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