 Poster: A snowHead
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Portes de Soleil are happy for skiers to make their own mind up about whether they need to wear a helmet to ski the Mur Suisse moguls.
Even in the litigious US, Teluride are happy to rely on 'Volenti non fit injuria' rather than compelling skiers to wear a helmet on bumps runs like 'The Plunge'.
So what is it about the green run gradient at MK that makes the slope so dangerous that I can't be trusted to make my own decision about whether to wear a helmet to ski through the bumps?
Skied there for two hours today, making numerous helmet-less runs through the bumps. No falls and no problems. Just before the end of my session an employee stopped me from entering the bumps because I was not wearing a helmet.
Poor snow quality due to broken down cooling units and infrequently making new snow. Now they introduce a health and safety policy that is out of line with the rest of the skiing industry.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@Oceanic, with you, bro.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Get it in writing. Many times a verbal advice from an employee is not the same as a company policy.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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There's your answer. The British love a bit of red tape and H&S, it's one of the reasons that we've got such good incident at work statistics....either that or a misinformed employee.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| SnoodlesMcFlude wrote: |
| not wanting to spiral this into the argument thread that it'll clearly become... |
I don't think it is worth rehashing the old helmet v. no helmet debate.
What is important to me, is that Snozone have taken a stance on helmets which is different to the stance taken by the rest of the industry.
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been the same in Leeds for at least 2 years, moguls and jumps they require you to use a helmet.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| kitenski wrote: |
| been the same in Leeds for at least 2 years, moguls and jumps they require you to use a helmet. |
Ditto Hemel, certainly for freestyle and I think also for moguls.
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You need one for race training everywhere too. Don't see the issue
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Last time I was at Chill FactorE there was moguls going on and they classified it as a 'freestyle area' that needed helmets.
Frankly I think people should consider themselves lucky that helmets aren't compulsory in the whole centre. In such a litigation and liability focussed country, it still surprises me that we actually allow people to ski at all and don't simply encourage them to take up chess instead.
At work there is often stuff happening overhead so we have to wear helmets... that's sensible (since not working below is not an option)... but when you go up top, you still have to wear it because health and safety man says that we are not intelligent enough to run 2 rules side by side so there has to be one rule for everyone.
Except him - it doesn't go with his suit so he goes without, because health and safety man has special powers not to get hit by a falling object.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@dp, in my experience there is a standout majority of guys on site that can't rember to put their hat back on when they leave the top lift 
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@dp, in my experience there is a standout majority of guys on site that can't rember to put their hat back on when they leave the top lift.
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You know it makes sense.
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| kitenski wrote: |
| been the same in Leeds for at least 2 years, moguls and jumps they require you to use a helmet. |
Ditto Hemel, certainly for freestyle and I think also for moguls. |
Hmm, was just about to sign up for your moguls clinic (when I'm not a seething ball of rage on the internet I go by the name of Steve R).
If the other fridges have adopted the same rule, I still think it's stupid, but I do concede that it could be argued to be industry best practice, despite what goes on in every other country.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| moseyp wrote: |
| You need one for race training everywhere too. Don't see the issue |
The issue is that, outside the UK, helmets are mandatory for race training and freestyle, but not for mogul skiing.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Don't get me started! Was there this evening and the child dishing out the skis told me I needed a helmet to use the moguls. I just pointed to the helmet I was wearing. He pointed to the rack and said the helmets were no charge. I again pointed to the helmet I was wearing. Received a blank look.
When I started my session it was pretty empty. Then a session for 7 year olds started on the moguls. Great to see them going hell for leather. What was annoying me though was the attitude of the coaches. Not teaching slope etiquette. Kids leaving poles every where; a big group at the top of the lift listening to the instructor; standing in a line half way down across the slope waiting for their turn; and so it went on.
No problem I thought; I'll just use the other side. Immediately I finished my first run on that side, they set up the race poles. Now there are 2 coaching sessions going on at the same time; plus lessons; plus recreational users. The problem wasn't lifts, it was people just blocking the slope. And the coaches said nothing!
And breathe!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@Oceanic, I'm not especially keen on wearing a helmet when I'm teaching, especially indoors, but as it's not my slope I comply with the rules and get on with it. One thing to perhaps remember is two or three metres away from the moguls is a drag lift and a wall...
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| @Oceanic, I'm not especially keen on wearing a helmet when I'm teaching, especially indoors, but as it's not my slope I comply with the rules and get on with it. One thing to perhaps remember is two or three metres away from the moguls is a drag lift and a wall... |
Yeah I was going to say maybe it is because you're always in close proximity to others & walls at these places, and moguls mean an increased fall chance
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Bennisboy wrote: |
Yeah I was going to say maybe it is because you're always in close proximity to others & walls at these places, and moguls mean an increased fall chance |
From a risk assessment point of view, if the proximity of the drag lift is a serious concern, the moguls are in the wrong place, because the real concern is a falling mogul skier crashing into a skier on the drag lift. If the skier on the drag lift was injured 'volenti non fit injuria' definitely wouldn't apply.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Oceanic wrote: |
| .... the real concern is a falling mogul skier crashing into a skier on the drag lift. .... |
Is it a serious mogul field?
Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Mon 20-02-17 22:40; edited 1 time in total
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| Oceanic wrote: |
| What is important to me, is that Snozone have taken a stance on helmets which is different to the stance taken by the rest of the industry. |
| kitenski wrote: |
| been the same in Leeds for at least 2 years, moguls and jumps they require you to use a helmet. |
| rob@rar wrote: |
| Ditto Hemel, certainly for freestyle and I think also for moguls. |
| dp wrote: |
| Last time I was at Chill FactorE there was moguls going on and they classified it as a 'freestyle area' that needed helmets. |
So not really a different stance then.
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| Quote: |
The issue is that, outside the UK, helmets are mandatory for race training and freestyle, but not for mogul skiing.
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What I meant, was that if they're compulsory for race training and freestyle sessions then they should probably also be compulsory for moguls (which falls under freestyle along with aerials, park & pipe and ski cross)
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| SnoodlesMcFlude wrote: |
So not really a different stance then. |
You missed out this quote...
| Oceanic wrote: |
If the other fridges have adopted the same rule, I still think it's stupid, but I do concede that it could be argued to be industry best practice, despite what goes on in every other country. |
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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In "every other country", you'll still have to wear a helmet to train moguls; and train, inspect and race at FIS events
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| moseyp wrote: |
| In "every other country", you'll still have to wear a helmet to train moguls; and train, inspect and race at FIS events |
The moguls at MK don't attempt to recreate a FIS moguls event. There are no kickers for aerials. They simulate the kind of bumpy piste you find at a ski resort which hasn't been groomed for a few days.
Seems like the UK indoor skiing industry has decided that industry best practice is helmets for moguls and helmets for instructors. Come to think of it, isn't there a big sign by the entrance to the slope at MK saying 'Please wear a helmet'?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@Oceanic, I know people who do inverted tricks on the moguls at Castleford.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Quote: |
Seems like the UK indoor skiing industry has decided that industry best practice is helmets for moguls and helmets for instructors. Come to think of it, isn't there a big sign by the entrance to the slope at MK saying 'Please wear a helmet'?
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How could this ever possibly be perceived as a negative act?!
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@moseyp, Have you ever seen a sign saying 'Please wear a helmet' at an outside ski resort? I havn't although it's possible that they exist and I've never come across one.
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You know it makes sense.
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it's hardly a big deal is it? It's their business and they are entitled to set the rules and you're free to take your business elsewhere if you want the feeling of that indoor wind in your hair or indoor sun on your head.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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The comparison of the great outdoors to UK fridges is the problem here. I made a poor attempt at a mogul field last week in Schladming, no one else was on it, the nearest other skier was probably about 50m away. In MK and other fridges you are only a few metres away from another person.
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Poster: A snowHead
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@Dave of the Marmottes, I agree that it isn't a big deal. I think it is worth discussing though. If we got to the point where all UK indoor snow slopes made helmets mandatory, then, because of the way the law works, that would then make it harder for resorts like Cairngorm to justify not making people wear helmets.
I think that any move towards compulsory helmets is a bad thing. Obviously I'm not opposed to anyone wearing a helmet who wants to.
Competition is a different thing, I can see that compulsory helmets make sense, to avoid the situation where a competitor feels compelled not to wear a helmet to gain a competitive advantage.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| hammerite wrote: |
| The comparison of the great outdoors to UK fridges is the problem here. I made a poor attempt at a mogul field last week in Schladming, no one else was on it, the nearest other skier was probably about 50m away. In MK and other fridges you are only a few metres away from another person. |
Wouldn't it be safer in that situation for the mogul skier not to wear a helmet? To avoid doing damage to the other skier 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Oceanic, quite probably. I don't know what the insurance implications are in a fridge over skier collisions, would Snozone have any liability? I guess they would have some liability if someone was to injure themselves on a feature they have put there (or in the case of moguls allowed them to form).
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Oceanic wrote: |
| @moseyp, Have you ever seen a sign saying 'Please wear a helmet' at an outside ski resort? I havn't although it's possible that they exist and I've never come across one. |
Yes, near enough, at Hemsedal last week there were signs encouraging people to wear a helmet to protect their head. I saw a grand total of 3 people not wearing one, all week.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| mgrolf wrote: |
| , at Hemsedal last week there were signs encouraging people to wear a helmet to protect their head. I saw a grand total of 3 people not wearing one, all week. |
Seems from this thread that MK are less of an outlier than I thought. How sad.
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I reckon 80-90% of those on the slopes in Espace Killy are now wearing helmets. I imagine it is similar elsewhere. Resistance is futile.
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| Quote: |
Wouldn't it be safer in that situation for the mogul skier not to wear a helmet? To avoid doing damage to the other skier
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I know you put a smiley on it but just because I occasionally see these kind of comments can I point out that
a helmet is designed to compress and deform to absorb energy in an impact
therefore it is better for someone to be hit by a helmeted head than a non-helmeted head
So the thinking in your question is arseaboutface
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I know that MK is relatively affluent compared to Castleford, but does one find many moguls skiing there? 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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No moguls at Tamworth but the rule there has been helmet for lessons, kickers, rails and the like for the 8 years or so I've been using it
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Its probably driven by their insurance policy. I imagine they have a hefty 3rd party injury insurance.
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