Group booking for 20 - insurance for cancellation

A snowHead

We have just returned from this years trip (Cervinia Club Med), so starting to think about next year now. Unfortunately one of our group had to cancel this year, and it's been quite a nightmare. The travel agent recommended she pay her share of the final balance, then claim it back, but the person decided not to pay their balance, meaning the other 19 had to cover her costs with just a few days before the balance was due.

I don't know if it was just BA/Club Med, but adding/changing a new person to the booking when we first found out was discouraged, as it would have been £400 for a new flight +the whole holiday costs. This was eventually brought down to £284 somehow, after we had all paid the remaining balance to cover the costs (rather than over £1200 we originally had to cover.), when we found a person to replace her.

We're all a bit wary for next year now, the person who cancelled was ill, she needed treatment, so had to cancel, which was sad and very unfortunate, but how can we cut the risks for next time? Does such a thing as group insurance exist, would it even cover loss to the group? Is there a company that's better than others, allowing for a late name change at not too silly a price?

How does anyone else who has a group holiday plan for this?

Any advice appreciated.

A snowHead

Did you book direct with Club Med, and travel with BA, or vice-versa?

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

This year we booked through an agent. Think that's where a lot of issues came in, every question we had the agent had to go off to ask club med.

It was our first club med experience, most of us loved it, but perhaps not all 20.

Happy to try chalet again next year, or a hotel where we could get each room to book on their own rather than a group booking.

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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

@micheleperry,

I might be missing the point, but was your friend contractually bound to pay up?

Or are you saying that it was early enough that they were able to pull out and lose the deposit?

Given its a group booking, perhaps you're all joint and severally liable? As you say, under closer examination it's actually a bit of a minefield.

When we've booked groups in the past we've always made it clear that once your in, you're in, but re insurance that wouldn't work - if you're ill BEFORE the balance is due then I can't see an insurer paying out if you voluntarily pay the balance.

You'll need to Register first of course.

you can get insurance that covers groups, but you would need to study each policy to see what is covered.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

@micheleperry, the way we get round this is that each of the group book separately, therefore if one drops out it's an issue they have to resolve with the Tour Operator and doesn't effect any others in the group.

Either that or make it very clear that each person who books is liable for their share so you'd need a contract with each of them and be prepared to enforce the contract or seek damages for their breach.

After all it is free

@marcellus, +1

When I've arranged (smaller) groups I've always negotiated the deal myself but then each person is responsible for booking their own trip.

@micheleperry, I doubt you can find the insurance you talk of. I think you just need to make sure everyone understands their commitments and doesn't behave as badly as your friend did this time. Or, as suggested, everyone do their own bookings.

@foxtrotzulu, schools, clubs etc can all get group policies. There is an option for group insurance for individuals travelling as a group if you google. I'm surprised the travel agent didn't try to sell it.

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Not worth insuring for - either find better friends or get them all to pay direct with TO. Personally I'd probably insist on all cash upfront before someone is in on a trip to avoid such issues. Basically she's said "I've had some tough luck so rather than deal with some minor admin myself I'll put the other 19 of you out of pocket."

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I would of thought a standard single trip ski/board policy for the group would cover a cancellation due to illness. You would need to include everyone on the trip and purchase at the time of booking. Just looked at MPI Brokers, whose online system only goes up to ten so a phone call would be needed, cover for a group of ten was £420.

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Whilst out walking the dog I was just doing some mental risk arithmetic!

and for this group of 20 based on previous events used for future risk and a cost of £1000 per person I worked out that the premium would probably be around the £1000 mark (20 people @ £1000 each with a 5% risk)OK you'd probably get some discount and the underwriters consolidated your policy with others which is sort of supported by @HutToHut research.

@HutToHut, @Hells Bells, I'm not 100% sure that this insurance really covers the instance above. The TO still wants paying, so presumably the OP (or the person who dropped out) would need to cough up and then claim a refund from the insurers.. That could have happened in this instance. It sounds like the sick person was individually insured but refused to pay and then claim. TBH it all sounds a bit of a bu&&ers muddle and I'm a bit shocked that the sick person would knowingly land her friends with this bill.

You know it makes sense.

So the answer is that this risk was already insured. So if you take out insurance as you suggest then you're paying twice for something as it's already insured. What you want to insure against is the risk of somebody not bothering to claim on their insurance.

You can recover this cost easily by taking the person who dropped out to the small claims court. They're insured already, so their insurance will cover the amount you're claiming - though not the court fees and other costs which they will have to cover themselves. The cost of the small claims track is £70. So if each of you put in an extra tenner then you're able to recover the costs. Easy.

Faced with this threat, then your ex-friend will pay up quickly.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

The non payment might well be very low on the dropouts list of priorities....maybe he was very ill.

A snowHead

@holidayloverxx, good point.

A snowHead

I doubt the sick person's insurance would have been prepared to pay more than the deposit as that was all she legally owed at the time. Unfortunately, I think this will always be an issue on group trips where people all take out their own insurance (or choose not to).

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

I don't understand how the balance was due on the holiday. Surely the agent or operator wanted paying about 3 months before the trip? Everybody pays up at that point (if not before) so how can they pull out and screw everybody else?

Sounds like somebody who, quite frankly, would be very abruptly told how grateful I was that they had demonstrated themselves to be untrustworthy and I could continue my life without needing anything to do with them. You sign up for a trip, you pay for it. Otherwise everybody gets screwed like this. Doesn't the dropout know that they've effectively screwed 20 others for a bunch of cash? Sickness or otherwise, you just get your credit card out of your pocket and pay the bill, deal with the insurance company etc later.

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Hi all, sorry I've opened a can of worms! Without sounding mean about the person who pulled out, she was very ill, and needed chemo ect all around the time the balance was due. In the last few days it was due she cancelled her space, and did not pay the balance. The rest of the group became liable for her balance, the travel agent hadn't been very helpful advising us not to replace her when we informed them the month before this might happen.

After the balance was paid we did find a replacement, so the original person lost her £300 deposit, and the group covered a £300 ish name change/new flight charge from the agent. She then claimed this fee back from her insurance.

So, we are all over this unfortunate incident. No one can know that they will be ill, but we'd like to try and avoid this happening again.

The ideas of individual bookings could work, though only some of the party are "partners" the rest of us share with friends, so that means each couple relies on their room mate paying and not pulling out. When you think about it, it becomes a bit of a minefield. Plus if we book individually we would loose any group discount? I'll keep looking into group insurance too, would need a good read of any terms and conditions first.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

So it sounds like she was liable for the balance unlike what sugarmomma says - if it was a true discretionary situation you'd have been able to carry on with your trip with just one less person (obviously this may have had a impact on extra discounts and underoccupancy supplements). Personally having been brave enough once to organise a work weekend trip I'd strongly advise everyone to steer away from organising large group trips unless you want to deal with all sorts of flakiness from the person who definitely wants to come largely because of social status but you know will end up dropping out on some pretext to the divas with special requirements to the power broker who insists everyone spend to his/her budget and taste. The discounts available aren't worth the aggro.

The way you do a group booking is find a friendly TO. Speak to their groups team direct - you've got quite a lot of leverage as its a sizable piece of business you want to put their way. Negotiate whatever deals you want. Then say "and you'll need to allow everyone to pay separately under separate contracts" - if they then push back make it clear it's a dealbreaker. They should be able to accomodate under an umbrella reference.

You'll need to Register first of course.

The situation would be even more difficult if a couple or family drops out due to illness. (or worst, death)

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

Had a quick Google. This is what Crystal Groups say.

After all it is free

Thanks Hells Bells, one to look into!!

Apart from needing a new person, we also discovered whilst we were away that 13 of us were booked onto 1 flight home, and 7 on another! That was a fun one to sort out, but they did get us all together.

We used Interactive Resorts last year, and have done for around 5 years, but they were really very unhelpful, and their advice was very jargon filled!

@micheleperry, it must be a nightmare organising a trip for so many. No doubt Inghams and Skiworld will also have groups departments.

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To be honest, it's put me off helping organise it again! But being able to change the name easier would be very useful.

snowHeads are a friendly bunch.

@micheleperry, pick one of the bashes, send a link to the [potential] group saying "I am/we are going on this: sign yourselves up before it's too late!"

For a start I'll sort out an appropriate

or amusing

room-mate for anyone who doesn't have one.
Once confirmed, if anyone needs to drop out (and can't or doesn't want to claim it on insurance), they just need to replace themselves (at no cost) but they have all of snowHeads from which to find a replacement. People book their own flights so the inability to name-change those doesn't get tied to the rest of the holiday.

snow reports

Thank you admin (sorry don't know your name!)

Another option to consider.

They call me "admin

or dadmin or badmin (or worse!)

"

You know it makes sense.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

Your Mum may have some 'pet name' for you but as far as I'm concerned your 'real' name is your snowHeads name - whatever you wish to call yourself out in that strange snowless other-world, that so many of U choose to inhabit for 40-50 weeks of the year, is up to U.

A snowHead

Loads of people in the real world call me 'hells' now.

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Group booking for 20 - insurance for cancellation

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